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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Propoganda.. by both sides But it does provide interesting ammo.
The cable ad I just viewed brought up a VERY interesting point that the telco's are desperate to downplay. Basically, to get a statewide franchise (which verizon desperately wants), it gives the telco's the ability to pick and choose not just towns, but NEIGHBORHOODS to wire up. I'd never thought of that aspect, but it does make sense..
Why should verizon have to wire up the 'other side of the tracks' with FIOS if they want to provide TV in my town? I mean, it won't be a profit center for verizon, so why should that have to do it? Well, the same reason COMCAST had to do it, the local government demanded equal access for ALL it's citizens, not just the rich ones. If Verizon wants to provide FIOS in my town, then it does it for ALL citizens, not just the 'rich people'. Guess what, that's the power of democracy overriding the greed of capitalism, as it should be. If verizon wants to service my town, then verizon does it under MY RULES.
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reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL | Re: Propoganda.. by both sides I wasn't aware that Cable TV (or CATV over Fiber, IPTV, or Satalite) is that important. | |
| achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| said by G_Poobah  :Why should verizon have to wire up the 'other side of the tracks' with FIOS if they want to provide TV in my town? I mean, it won't be a profit center for verizon, so why should that have to do it? Well, the same reason COMCAST had to do it, the local government demanded equal access for ALL it's citizens, not just the rich ones. If Verizon wants to provide FIOS in my town, then it does it for ALL citizens, not just the 'rich people'. Guess what, that's the power of democracy overriding the greed of capitalism, as it should be. If verizon wants to service my town, then verizon does it under MY RULES. If you turned your trolling to other sections of the site, especially ones that address FIOS installs in neighborhoods, you will notice actual users that had FIOS installed in rich, middle class, and lower class neighborhoods.
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides Wow, you want to apologize for Verizon? Lets look at the FACTS..
»www.lightreading.com/document.as···id=67123
"Specifically, the two carriers operate under very different cable franchise agreements. One big point of contention is that Charter was required to provide service to everyone in Keller under its agreement. Verizon, however, is only required to serve those in its territory -- and it has the option to come back at a later date and build out its network to reach into SBC's territory."
Why the hell should Verizon get a 'free pass' when Comcrap got slapped down. BOTH of the companies are acting like monopolies, and trying to screw the customer as much as possible. It's called capitalism. Luckily for us, we have democracy to bitchslap them back to reality. Companies exist to service us, the customers, not the other way around. Once they get too big and greedy, they all seem to forget that.
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Sure the internet has lots of porn and piracy, but I'm sure there's a downside to it. | |
| | | achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides Nice deflection, but I was responding to your comment of:
said by G_Poobah :Why should verizon have to wire up the 'other side of the tracks' with FIOS if they want to provide TV in my town? I mean, it won't be a profit center for verizon, so why should that have to do it? So, again, as I stated before...FIOS has been confirmed by plenty of members of this site that it has been wired in high, middle, and low income areas, therefore putting a kink in your "cherry picking" conspiracy...
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| | | | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides said by achuchma :So, again, as I stated before...FIOS has been confirmed by plenty of members of this site that it has been wired in high, middle, and low income areas, therefore putting a kink in your "cherry picking" conspiracy... Well said. And that's a fact. | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Kink? Cherry picking? What the hell are you talking about..
Cherry picking means that they can wire up part of a town, and not the other part. What they are wiring up now for FIOS TV is between verizon and the town verizon signed with. If the franchise agreement says 'you can wire up this neighborhood first, and the others next year', well that's the agreement the TOWN reached. The problem occurs when you remove the elected town officials from the picture.
Verizon, once they don't have to deal with town governments, is obviously going to wire up area's that they get the greatest return from. And that's going to be the area's where they think they will get the highest number of customers. And THAT's going to tend to be the affluent towns. There's no point in arguing that I'm wrong, because the SHAREHOLDERS will demand that verizon get the best returns, and the scenario I described is the winning capitalist technique. Why in the hell would verizon spend millions wiring up parts of a town where only 1% of the people would sign up? That would be a poor business decision.
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Sure the internet has lots of porn and piracy, but I'm sure there's a downside to it. | |
| | | | | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides said by G_Poobah :Kink? Cherry picking? What the hell are you talking about.. The kink he is talking about is the obvious one in your conspiracy theory that Verizon FIOS only caters to the rich. Completely false.
Every point you try to bring up is nothing more than pure speculation and anti-telco opinions on your behalf. Never factual, as usual. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides Two points:
First, while Verizon is apparently wiring some less affluent ares, is this perhaps only because they are required to do so? Since this discussion is about the elimination of agreements which require "build-out", it seems reasonable to ask if the requirement is the reason for their "good behavior" so far.
Second, this discussion is about what will be POSSIBLE in the future. While past activities may give some indication of what a corporation will do in the future, many believe that corporations sometimes change their approach. Accordingly, a theory that VZ might cater only to the rich (or build to them first) in the future merits discussion.
calvoiper
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
 ·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| said by achuchma :Nice deflection, but I was responding to your comment of: said by G_Poobah :Why should verizon have to wire up the 'other side of the tracks' with FIOS if they want to provide TV in my town? I mean, it won't be a profit center for verizon, so why should that have to do it? So, again, as I stated before...FIOS has been confirmed by plenty of members of this site that it has been wired in high, middle, and low income areas, therefore putting a kink in your "cherry picking" conspiracy... But do they have to ? What is to prevent from cherry picking in the future? I guess verizon can just do as it pleases without penalty. | |
| | | | | achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides said by DaveNJ :said by achuchma :Nice deflection, but I was responding to your comment of: said by G_Poobah :Why should verizon have to wire up the 'other side of the tracks' with FIOS if they want to provide TV in my town? I mean, it won't be a profit center for verizon, so why should that have to do it? So, again, as I stated before...FIOS has been confirmed by plenty of members of this site that it has been wired in high, middle, and low income areas, therefore putting a kink in your "cherry picking" conspiracy... But do they have to ? What is to prevent from cherry picking in the future? I guess verizon can just do as it pleases without penalty. No, they are under no requirements to wire FIOS in any order at this point and time; however, given how the roll out of FIOS occurred across income class, it is unlikely that Verizon will change direction.
I think (this is opinion, based on industry rumors), that FIOS is basically intended to replace Verizon's copper plant, which means all Verizon serviced areas will be on FIOS sooner or later. This, of course, takes time just like when cable was rolled out.
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides said by achuchma :No, they are under no requirements to wire FIOS in any order at this point and time; however, given how the roll out of FIOS occurred across income class, it is unlikely that Verizon will change direction. I think (this is opinion, based on industry rumors), that FIOS is basically intended to replace Verizon's copper plant, which means all Verizon serviced areas will be on FIOS sooner or later. This, of course, takes time just like when cable was rolled out. So in 2 years i can expect fios ? | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Propoganda.. by both sides Document what he's saying so that in three years, when the majority of rural middle-class America is still waiting for Fios, you can perhaps get a coupon? | |
| | | | | | | | achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides said by Karl Bode :Document what he's saying so that in three years, when the majority of rural middle-class America is still waiting for Fios, you can perhaps get a coupon? I doubt that we will see FIOS on a grand scale within three years. The costs involved with installing the service will more than likely keep deployments at a steady, but slow pace.
I can only speak from what has been documented here with other FIOS customers, and so far, we have seen FIOS installs span the income brackets.
Is it possible that Verizon can change direction on FIOS deployments? Of course! However, since FIOS is in its infancy, if Verizon wanted to cherry pick affluent areas, one would assume that now would be the time to do it.
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
1 edit | Re: Propoganda.. by both sides said by achuchma :said by Karl Bode :Document what he's saying so that in three years, when the majority of rural middle-class America is still waiting for Fios, you can perhaps get a coupon? I doubt that we will see FIOS on a grand scale within three years. The costs involved with installing the service will more than likely keep deployments at a steady, but slow pace. I can only speak from what has been documented here with other FIOS customers, and so far, we have seen FIOS installs span the income brackets. Is it possible that Verizon can change direction on FIOS deployments? Of course! However, since FIOS is in its infancy, if Verizon wanted to cherry pick affluent areas, one would assume that now would be the time to do it. So if verizon is going to take its time doing a builtout, why do they need a statewide franchise? By the time they get near to being usable by the customer, they could be on there 2nd local franchise deal. | |
| | | | | | | | | | achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides said by DaveNJ :So if verizon is going to take its time doing a buildout, why do they need a statewide franchise? By the time they get near to being usable by the customer, they could be on there 2nd local franchise deal. And that, I do not know. There may be plans to accelerate FIOS build out, or they may just be trying to get all their ducks in a row in advance, or a combination of both.
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
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| quote:
I can only speak from what has been documented here with other FIOS customers, and so far, we have seen FIOS installs span the income brackets. However, since FIOS is in its infancy, if Verizon wanted to cherry pick affluent areas, one would assume that now would be the time to do it.
If I were a very PR conscious telco, even if I were going to cherry pick affluent and dense areas (which makes the most economic and investor pleasing sense), I'd damn well do my best to obfuscate this by picking a number of lower-middle class neighborhoods for deployment to offset this, so if someone did a statistical evaluation, I'd have ammo.
Luckily for Verizon, FCC statistics are largely bunk. They don't even know who really has DSL at this point. | |
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Vig
Thread-safe since 1997
Premium
join:2004-03-23
San Diego, CA
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides And this is exactly the point. Just because they seem to be wiring everyone now doesn't mean they will in the future. In fact, if they get a franchise agreement that doesn't force them to service an unprofitable region, then they're pretty much required to ignore that area to avoid shareholder complaints.
Maybe they aren't ignoring less profitable areas now because that might make them look bad right when they need to look good to get the deal they want. As soon as said deal is in hand, it would not be surprising at all for their "wire them all" fervor to die out rather abruptly.
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| | | | | | | achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| said by DaveNJ :So in 2 years i can expect fios ? Who knows...I am with you buddy...I am in a Verizon serviced area and they have been putting fiber trunks in the ground like nobody's business, but the closest city to me that has FIOS is Fort Wayne, IN which is a good 90 miles from me.
As for time line, there is a lot of area to cover, and again, I was basing on rumors within the industry. Given the fact that customers who get FIOS usually have their land lines cut over to fiber as well, it really is looking like Verizon is taking the direction to decommission their copper operations. This, of course, will probably start with larger cities and then start to span out. Considering I live in a town of about 300 people, I don't expect to see FIOS any time in the near future.
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides said by djrobx : quote:
If Verizon wants to provide FIOS in my town, then it does it for ALL citizens, not just the 'rich people'.
I have seen no real evidence that Verizon is targeting rich people. In Los Angeles we have "rich areas" such as Ranchos Palos Verdes and Rolling Hills Estates. They are Verizon territory. If Verizon was targeting rich people only, those folks would have been the first to see FIOS. But there's no FIOS there. And heck, it would actually make sense for them to roll out FIOS there since most customers in those areas can't even get DSL. Meanwhile areas like Ontario and Victorville are getting lit for FIOS. They're certainly not "rich" communities. The problem is that verizon wants special treatment, and just wants to bully towns around. Either wire the whole town, or none at all. Cablecos have to, so verizon should have to as well. Our former cableco RCN tried to do this, and were legislated out of the state. I think there should also be a builtout performace agreement once verizon is allow in, under a "agreement" from the town. Our cableco had only 2 yrs to rebuild there entire network. I think that is fair for Verizon to have to do in any town. | |
| | | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides And why should they be required to wire the whole town right away? Shouldnt we extend this a little further and say they have to wire their entire covered area right away or none at all? Or maybe we can say they have to wire the entire nation, or none at all? What makes it OK for them to wire one state now and not another until next year? Explain to me how this is different then any other company rolling out or even testing a product in one part of the country, state, city, or town. Is it because YOU want it and they are not meeting YOUR timeline?
If they want to go down your street and wire every house but yours, that is their business. What is it that all of a sudden gives you a RIGHT to fiber just because they started rolling it out in your neighborhood? If they want to stop their fiber deployment right now and never wire another house or business, that is their choice to make. They are a publicly held company so that decision is not yours and certainly not some politicians to make based on what they think they should suck out of Verizon.
Sure it would be nice if they could wire every house in their territory in a couple months. But that is not realistic and we would still have the little cry babies here asking why did they start in NY instead of Nebraska? So they pick and choose the most profitable places now and then come back to the places that give little return when the cost of wiring them is lower. So what, good business sense. In the end they will probably, through intervention of the government, be forced to wire the places that don't make them any money. But it may be several years for that to take place. | |
| | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | The whole town is already wired for telephone service. Upgrading it is a slow eventuality. Where I used to live there was neither cable tv or cable internet and Charter or the local gov't didn't care. There was DSL and telephone service though. | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: Propoganda.. by both sides said by bogey780 :The whole town is already wired for telephone service. Upgrading it is a slow eventuality. Where I used to live there was neither cable tv or cable internet and Charter or the local gov't didn't care. There was DSL and telephone service though. What you need to do is petition your town council to form a cable advisory board. Then the cable advisory takes complaints, when the franchise comes up again, they say these points need to be taken care of first. Gee imagine if you could do this with verizon dsl ? | |
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Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY | I guess you didn't read the OP post. TW had a franchise agreement and still picked the side of town they wanted!
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