calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| reply to Cod
Re: Propoganda.. by both sides
Two points:
First, while Verizon is apparently wiring some less affluent ares, is this perhaps only because they are required to do so? Since this discussion is about the elimination of agreements which require "build-out", it seems reasonable to ask if the requirement is the reason for their "good behavior" so far.
Second, this discussion is about what will be POSSIBLE in the future. While past activities may give some indication of what a corporation will do in the future, many believe that corporations sometimes change their approach. Accordingly, a theory that VZ might cater only to the rich (or build to them first) in the future merits discussion.
calvoiper
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
 ·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780  :The whole town is already wired for telephone service. Upgrading it is a slow eventuality. Where I used to live there was neither cable tv or cable internet and Charter or the local gov't didn't care. There was DSL and telephone service though. What you need to do is petition your town council to form a cable advisory board. Then the cable advisory takes complaints, when the franchise comes up again, they say these points need to be taken care of first. Gee imagine if you could do this with verizon dsl ? |
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Vig
Thread-safe since 1997
Premium
join:2004-03-23
San Diego, CA
| reply to Karl Bode
And this is exactly the point. Just because they seem to be wiring everyone now doesn't mean they will in the future. In fact, if they get a franchise agreement that doesn't force them to service an unprofitable region, then they're pretty much required to ignore that area to avoid shareholder complaints.
Maybe they aren't ignoring less profitable areas now because that might make them look bad right when they need to look good to get the deal they want. As soon as said deal is in hand, it would not be surprising at all for their "wire them all" fervor to die out rather abruptly.
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | reply to DaveNJ
The whole town is already wired for telephone service. Upgrading it is a slow eventuality. Where I used to live there was neither cable tv or cable internet and Charter or the local gov't didn't care. There was DSL and telephone service though. |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| reply to DaveNJ
And why should they be required to wire the whole town right away? Shouldnt we extend this a little further and say they have to wire their entire covered area right away or none at all? Or maybe we can say they have to wire the entire nation, or none at all? What makes it OK for them to wire one state now and not another until next year? Explain to me how this is different then any other company rolling out or even testing a product in one part of the country, state, city, or town. Is it because YOU want it and they are not meeting YOUR timeline?
If they want to go down your street and wire every house but yours, that is their business. What is it that all of a sudden gives you a RIGHT to fiber just because they started rolling it out in your neighborhood? If they want to stop their fiber deployment right now and never wire another house or business, that is their choice to make. They are a publicly held company so that decision is not yours and certainly not some politicians to make based on what they think they should suck out of Verizon.
Sure it would be nice if they could wire every house in their territory in a couple months. But that is not realistic and we would still have the little cry babies here asking why did they start in NY instead of Nebraska? So they pick and choose the most profitable places now and then come back to the places that give little return when the cost of wiring them is lower. So what, good business sense. In the end they will probably, through intervention of the government, be forced to wire the places that don't make them any money. But it may be several years for that to take place. |
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achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| reply to DaveNJ
said by DaveNJ :So if verizon is going to take its time doing a buildout, why do they need a statewide franchise? By the time they get near to being usable by the customer, they could be on there 2nd local franchise deal. And that, I do not know. There may be plans to accelerate FIOS build out, or they may just be trying to get all their ducks in a row in advance, or a combination of both.
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to achuchma
quote:
I can only speak from what has been documented here with other FIOS customers, and so far, we have seen FIOS installs span the income brackets. However, since FIOS is in its infancy, if Verizon wanted to cherry pick affluent areas, one would assume that now would be the time to do it.
If I were a very PR conscious telco, even if I were going to cherry pick affluent and dense areas (which makes the most economic and investor pleasing sense), I'd damn well do my best to obfuscate this by picking a number of lower-middle class neighborhoods for deployment to offset this, so if someone did a statistical evaluation, I'd have ammo.
Luckily for Verizon, FCC statistics are largely bunk. They don't even know who really has DSL at this point. |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
1 edit | reply to achuchma
said by achuchma :said by Karl Bode :Document what he's saying so that in three years, when the majority of rural middle-class America is still waiting for Fios, you can perhaps get a coupon? I doubt that we will see FIOS on a grand scale within three years. The costs involved with installing the service will more than likely keep deployments at a steady, but slow pace. I can only speak from what has been documented here with other FIOS customers, and so far, we have seen FIOS installs span the income brackets. Is it possible that Verizon can change direction on FIOS deployments? Of course! However, since FIOS is in its infancy, if Verizon wanted to cherry pick affluent areas, one would assume that now would be the time to do it. So if verizon is going to take its time doing a builtout, why do they need a statewide franchise? By the time they get near to being usable by the customer, they could be on there 2nd local franchise deal. |
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achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode :Document what he's saying so that in three years, when the majority of rural middle-class America is still waiting for Fios, you can perhaps get a coupon? I doubt that we will see FIOS on a grand scale within three years. The costs involved with installing the service will more than likely keep deployments at a steady, but slow pace.
I can only speak from what has been documented here with other FIOS customers, and so far, we have seen FIOS installs span the income brackets.
Is it possible that Verizon can change direction on FIOS deployments? Of course! However, since FIOS is in its infancy, if Verizon wanted to cherry pick affluent areas, one would assume that now would be the time to do it.
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achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| reply to DaveNJ
said by DaveNJ :So in 2 years i can expect fios ? Who knows...I am with you buddy...I am in a Verizon serviced area and they have been putting fiber trunks in the ground like nobody's business, but the closest city to me that has FIOS is Fort Wayne, IN which is a good 90 miles from me.
As for time line, there is a lot of area to cover, and again, I was basing on rumors within the industry. Given the fact that customers who get FIOS usually have their land lines cut over to fiber as well, it really is looking like Verizon is taking the direction to decommission their copper operations. This, of course, will probably start with larger cities and then start to span out. Considering I live in a town of about 300 people, I don't expect to see FIOS any time in the near future.
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | reply to DaveNJ
Document what he's saying so that in three years, when the majority of rural middle-class America is still waiting for Fios, you can perhaps get a coupon? |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| reply to achuchma
said by achuchma :No, they are under no requirements to wire FIOS in any order at this point and time; however, given how the roll out of FIOS occurred across income class, it is unlikely that Verizon will change direction. I think (this is opinion, based on industry rumors), that FIOS is basically intended to replace Verizon's copper plant, which means all Verizon serviced areas will be on FIOS sooner or later. This, of course, takes time just like when cable was rolled out. So in 2 years i can expect fios ? |
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achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| reply to DaveNJ
said by DaveNJ :said by achuchma :Nice deflection, but I was responding to your comment of: said by G_Poobah :Why should verizon have to wire up the 'other side of the tracks' with FIOS if they want to provide TV in my town? I mean, it won't be a profit center for verizon, so why should that have to do it? So, again, as I stated before...FIOS has been confirmed by plenty of members of this site that it has been wired in high, middle, and low income areas, therefore putting a kink in your "cherry picking" conspiracy... But do they have to ? What is to prevent from cherry picking in the future? I guess verizon can just do as it pleases without penalty. No, they are under no requirements to wire FIOS in any order at this point and time; however, given how the roll out of FIOS occurred across income class, it is unlikely that Verizon will change direction.
I think (this is opinion, based on industry rumors), that FIOS is basically intended to replace Verizon's copper plant, which means all Verizon serviced areas will be on FIOS sooner or later. This, of course, takes time just like when cable was rolled out.
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guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
 ·epix
| reply to G_Poobah
said by G_Poobah :Companies exist to service us, the customers, not the other way around. Once they get too big and greedy, they all seem to forget that. Really that is news to me, I'm reading those posted words yet I'm not quite believing it.Suppose one is in Comcast territory and has Comast HSI & TV.
Now when Verizon brings its FIOS to town,if one stays with Comcast for service, Can Verizon hit Comcast subscribers up with a "non service non user agreement fee.? jk 
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| reply to achuchma
said by achuchma :Nice deflection, but I was responding to your comment of: said by G_Poobah :Why should verizon have to wire up the 'other side of the tracks' with FIOS if they want to provide TV in my town? I mean, it won't be a profit center for verizon, so why should that have to do it? So, again, as I stated before...FIOS has been confirmed by plenty of members of this site that it has been wired in high, middle, and low income areas, therefore putting a kink in your "cherry picking" conspiracy... But do they have to ? What is to prevent from cherry picking in the future? I guess verizon can just do as it pleases without penalty. |
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cbrain
join:2000-05-21
Silver Spring, MD
 ·VoicePulse for Bus..
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VoiceStick
| reply to G_Poobah
How do you figure the local franchise system helped him? It sounds like Cablevision made a business decision to provide service to these 32 homes. It then took months to get a waiver from the state. How did existing franchise laws help him? Couldn't Cablevision have started construction upon making the decision if they had a statewide franchise? |
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Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| reply to G_Poobah
said by G_Poobah :Kink? Cherry picking? What the hell are you talking about.. The kink he is talking about is the obvious one in your conspiracy theory that Verizon FIOS only caters to the rich. Completely false.
Every point you try to bring up is nothing more than pure speculation and anti-telco opinions on your behalf. Never factual, as usual. |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| reply to achuchma
Kink? Cherry picking? What the hell are you talking about..
Cherry picking means that they can wire up part of a town, and not the other part. What they are wiring up now for FIOS TV is between verizon and the town verizon signed with. If the franchise agreement says 'you can wire up this neighborhood first, and the others next year', well that's the agreement the TOWN reached. The problem occurs when you remove the elected town officials from the picture.
Verizon, once they don't have to deal with town governments, is obviously going to wire up area's that they get the greatest return from. And that's going to be the area's where they think they will get the highest number of customers. And THAT's going to tend to be the affluent towns. There's no point in arguing that I'm wrong, because the SHAREHOLDERS will demand that verizon get the best returns, and the scenario I described is the winning capitalist technique. Why in the hell would verizon spend millions wiring up parts of a town where only 1% of the people would sign up? That would be a poor business decision.
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Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| reply to achuchma
said by achuchma :So, again, as I stated before...FIOS has been confirmed by plenty of members of this site that it has been wired in high, middle, and low income areas, therefore putting a kink in your "cherry picking" conspiracy... Well said. And that's a fact. |
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achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| reply to G_Poobah
Nice deflection, but I was responding to your comment of:
said by G_Poobah :Why should verizon have to wire up the 'other side of the tracks' with FIOS if they want to provide TV in my town? I mean, it won't be a profit center for verizon, so why should that have to do it? So, again, as I stated before...FIOS has been confirmed by plenty of members of this site that it has been wired in high, middle, and low income areas, therefore putting a kink in your "cherry picking" conspiracy...
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