antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
1 edit |  "Hey Neighbor, Stop Piggybacking on My Wireless"
»www.nytimes.com/2006/03/05/techn···&emc=rss (shouldn't require a log in) and »news.com.com/Hey+neighbor%2C+sto···078.html (CNET's copy)
Another wireless story without security. |
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ZOverLord
Premium
join:2003-10-20
Minneapolis, MN
1 edit | I always find it ODD at best when these people TRY to justify the use of an un-protected Wireless Network, as one does in this article, I quote:
"I don't think it's stealing," said Edwin Caroso, a 21-year-old student at Miami Dade College, echoing an often-heard sentiment.
I always find people out there who aren't protecting their connection, so I just feel free to go ahead and use it," Mr. Caroso said. He added that he tapped into a stranger's network mainly for Web surfing, keeping up with e-mail, text chatting with friends in foreign countries and doing homework."
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What amazes me, is that if a gang member used the same logic as these same people walk down a block wearing the wrong colors and not carrying a gun, can the Gang Member avoid prison by simply saying.
"I don't think it's murder, they were not carrying protection, they were obviously wearing the wrong clothes. They should have known better."
If the TRUTH be known these same people who think this is right can't read, or can't use a search engine, or both. Because if they could they would see the laws in their state, listed here:
»www.crime-research.org/library/State.pdf
Then be smart enough to do a search using the law number and state. Since they seem not able to do both these things I do agree with them on one point.
"They Don't Think!"
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Black, Grey and White Hats Unite here -> »testing.OnlyTheRightAnswers.com |
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Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
 ·Shaw
| reply to antdude
Now granted I use WPA with a very strong passwording, but the rule here is anyone who connects to my networks is subject to my administration and or testing as the case may be in the wireless malware lab (oh look someone must have setup a fresh test system  )
Some people are so naive thinking they are the only 'sneaky' people around when in fact they are the low hanging fruit.
Blake
--
Vendor: Firewall Logging Software »www.SonicLogger.com - SonicWall and 3Com »www.LinkLogger.com - Linksys, Netgear and Zyxel |
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Dee Esell
join:2006-03-09
Asheville, NC
| reply to antdude
Brand new here, first post.
I have a points about using unsecured Wireless access:
It is a legal issue now that people have been prosecuted for willfully doing it, but actually it is a more of a moral issue. I say that because regulation of low power transmitters in the 2.4 GHz range is ambiguous. It is not analogous to criminal activity, this is an emissions regulation issue.
Putting up an unsecured wireless network is more like storing your things on the curb. Don't be surprised if others think you're giving them away. It is irresponsible and ignorant to run an unsecured wireless network, but that doesn't mean it's morally OK to use one without permission.
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NyQuil Kid
8f The Nyquil Kid
join:2001-01-06
Brick, NJ
·Comcast
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Excellent post and exactly details the problem. It's akin to seeing a security van drop a bag of cash by accident - that's not a license to steal the bag; there is a moral imperative to alert the proper people/return the bag to the owners.
What is very upsetting is how some of those people quoted in the article lack the moral "spine" not to take advantage. Whenever I see/detect an open wireless connection, I find that person and inform them - I will even show them how to secure it (allowing them to choose the password so I don't know it).
It's the right thing to do - period.
[8F] The NyQuil Kid
--
[8F] The NyQuil Kid comes into town not looking for trouble...n00bz gang up, but he ain't seein' double,...pulls and draws, his deagles two...n00bz litter the ground you know it's true. |
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ZOverLord
Premium
join:2003-10-20
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to antdude
I think it's more than a moral stance. It is a person saying, that they define requirements of "Fair Use" which if all people were allowed to do, and for all things, there just might be more people at the dinner table each night than planned.
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Black, Grey and White Hats Unite here -> »testing.OnlyTheRightAnswers.com |
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Kayrac
Premium
join:2001-09-29
Rochester, NH | reply to antdude
"There's no gauge, no measuring device that says 48 people are using your access," Ms. Edwards said.
somehow mine tells me exactly how many connections there are :P |
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dspalding
join:2003-10-29
Durham, NC
 ·Dreamhost
| reply to antdude
The blind leading the naked....
quote:
"We gave some weird story about the network imposing some sort of lockdown protocol."
I think it's hilarious that the page 1 poster children for this little exposé are a couple of hip, educated Angelenos who couldn't be bothered to have read beyond the first few pages of their router manual. And the brains behind that duo? The Mrs. is "chief executive of Socket Media, a marketing and public relations agency" -- ahem, she doesn't know about information security?? I'm not hiring that #*%&ing company to do my marketing!! (I wonder if she thought maybe this article would give her a little positive press. Think again, sweetie.)
I was at a cafe recently which offered some wifi. When I'm bored enough, I'll tap on the door of the router ... and in this case, the router had a default password. D'oh! I considered telling the owner about this, but didn't. Why? My accessing his router was arguably illegal. Why risk a stranger's ire trying to do "the right thing." I agree with you Nyquil, but I once did this for someone's unprotected home control system (lighting, temperature, etc.), and for my efforts got a very stern and threatening letter from Time-Warner about "unauthorized port-scanning and intrusion."
Frankly, my worry is not about people "stealing" online service this way. My worry is not about people who can't set up a router with some basic security (which is still probably an advanced topic for most consumers). My worry is the folks who aid in spreading virii and Trojans because they couldn't prevent the digital Typhoid Marys from connecting to their LAN and infecting more computers. ... And we wonder how spam and Internet worms are on the rise.... (smacks forehead) |
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dspalding
join:2003-10-29
Durham, NC
·Dreamhost
| reply to antdude
Haha, here's a clue ... look at the churn rate in the Wireless Networking forum ... and compare with this forum. Clearly, more people are asking about Wifi than are asking about securing their Wifi.  |
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dspalding
join:2003-10-29
Durham, NC
·Dreamhost
| reply to antdude
said by Kayrac  :"There's no gauge, no measuring device that says 48 people are using your access," Ms. Edwards said. That's right, dearie. No routers I've seen have little LED counters on them. You have to, ahem, log into the router to get information. Again, the blind leading the naked.... |
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Big T3
join:2006-01-13
Chicopee, MA
| reply to antdude
Another way to look at this: do you blame your son because his bike was stolen out of the driveway? Why make him feel responsible when somebody else has performed a crime against him? It's like blaming a woman because her significant other beat her up. Unfortunately, if we want to protect from these people, you must lock up your bike or secure your wireless. Don't blame the homeowner for having an unsecured wireless network, or show contempt but instead just recommend alternatives to a situation and not be condescending. One last thing here, but have you ever used a power outlet in an airport maybe? I would think the power is for the use of employees doing their jobs. Should the airport have to make employees go to an electrical room and turn the disconnect off every time? Technically, isn't it stealing when you plug in your laptop to power it? |
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atebark
join:2005-07-22
Somerville, MA
| reply to antdude
Sorry if it has been posted before but I cannot seem to find a straight answer on how to lock down my Belkin 802.11B wireless Router. Is there a way I can see if someone is piggybacking? How do i set up a password for my housemates to access it as well?
thank you |
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kmac1
Off in new directions
Premium,VIP
join:2001-06-07
Port Neches, TX
| reply to antdude
As someone who installs and configures wireless networks as part of my job, I have to disagree with some of the thoughts on these "piggybackers". They are not "breaking into" any wireless connections. Rather, the wireless connections are being broadcast to them. If these people are able to receive this broadcast, using plentiful and legal equipment, they aren't breaking the law.
A good analagy would be if I bought a Pay-per-View movie or event, and moved my TV up close to the window and keeping the curtains and window open. Anyone walking by would be able to see the program. Are they breaking the law? Trespassing? No, not even close. They can sit there on the curb and watch the total program. "But hey, I'm the one paying for this!" I'm also the one who enabled them to be able to see the program for free. How can I prevent this from happening? Close the window and curtains. Now if anyone wanted to watch, they'd have to break in my house, thereby breaking the law.
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Put your spare CPU cycles to WORK! Join the BBR DC Teams and join in on helping helping find ET or cures for diseases. SETI and Team Helix. Join in on the fun! |
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claudeo
join:2000-02-23
Redmond, WA | It's not quite the same. No one will use your Pay-per-view equipped cable box to phish, spam or troll pron sites. |
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dspalding
join:2003-10-29
Durham, NC
·Dreamhost
1 edit | reply to atebark
said by atebark :Sorry if it has been posted before but I cannot seem to find a straight answer on how to lock down my Belkin 802.11B wireless Router. Is there a way I can see if someone is piggybacking? How do i set up a password for my housemates to access it as well? Please read the owner's manual and this forum's FAQ, do not pass GO, go collect $200. |
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dspalding
join:2003-10-29
Durham, NC
·Dreamhost
| reply to Big T3
"Hey Neighbor, Stop WHINING about your unsecured router"
said by Big T3 :.. Don't blame the homeowner for having an unsecured wireless network, or show contempt but instead just recommend alternatives to a situation and not be condescending. Don't know about others, but I was chortling at these homeowners (hub-owners, really) who are complaining(?) that people are using their router/ISP connection, and "someone" out there is not fixing it for them. Ahem. It's YOUR router, I say, so maintain it. Just like your plumbing. Just like your furnace. Just like your electrical wiring. Just like your hifi. Just like ... everything else that you bought and have in your home. Be responsible for it; I don't think this is such a touch concept to comprehend.
As for your airport analogy, until the airport tells you/me/us that they don't want us using the outlets in public areas, and enforcing it, it's an amenity. Have you ever had a hotel tell you to scram after you sat in their lobby for 20 minutes? Same deal. |
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hwsb
join:2006-03-17
| reply to kmac1
Re: "Hey Neighbor, Stop Piggybacking on My Wireless"
said by kmac1 :A good analagy would be if I bought a Pay-per-View movie or event, and moved my TV up close to the window and keeping the curtains and window open. Anyone walking by would be able to see the program. Are they breaking the law? Trespassing? No, not even close. They can sit there on the curb and watch the total program. "But hey, I'm the one paying for this!" I'm also the one who enabled them to be able to see the program for free. How can I prevent this from happening? Close the window and curtains. Now if anyone wanted to watch, they'd have to break in my house, thereby breaking the law. See, that's not exactly true though... The pay-per-view program you are paying for undoubtedly had a "for personal use only" clause at the beginning of it. By putting the program on display for the public, you are violating the terms of your purchase.
So, do any ISPs have this clause in their service contracts?
If they do, then both having an open system would be a breach of terms, and using an open ap (that isn't your own) would be illegal. Right?
If they don't, then people AREN'T responsible for the kiddie pr0n that the random intruder downloads, and it is NOT illegal to use random open APs. Right?
IMHO, of course. |
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Big T3
join:2006-01-13
Chicopee, MA | reply to atebark
We might have the same model. Try this manual:
»www.belkin.com/support/download/···nual.pdf |
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Big T3
join:2006-01-13
Chicopee, MA
| reply to dspalding
Re: "Hey Neighbor, Stop WHINING about your unsecured router"
I was not trying to infer that anyone here has been patronizing anybody but just in general. As far as not using airport power from an outlet, just because somebody may not lock it down, it doesn't mean it's an amenity. Say you go into a convenience store and take a bag of chips and walk out and not get caught, then you do this a few times, just because you haven't been caught doesn't mean it's not shoplifting. There are some things that are understood. Say you speed on a road near your house and you've been doing this for years then one day you get caught and get a ticket; you can't say that you shouldn't get a fine just because you've been doing it for years. You've just been lucky. |
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dspalding
join:2003-10-29
Durham, NC
·Dreamhost
| Dude, your analogies are wacky.
Comparing an electrical outlet in an airport waiting lounge (sorry, if you mean somewhere else - the ones that I use are in the gate lounges) to a Stop 'n Rob where the products are clearly FOR SALE, doesn't compute.
Comparing an electrical outlet in an airport waiting lounge to drivers willfully violating the clearly posted legal speed limit also doesn't compute.
Here, try this: the water and air connections at a gas station. They're off to the side, no coin-op device to control them, and people pull in, buy gas, then top off their tires. There are no signs, neither saying "Free air and water," or "Proprietor use only." In your analogy, the gas station attendant can run out screaming at customers, "You can't use that! You can't use that!" Is the customer wrong?
Another: The clearly posted speed limit on your street is 30 mph. Some curmudgeon (I'm one) on your street regularly runs out to the curb and screams at drivers doing 30 that they should do 20 mph because there are children who live and play on the street. There are no signs indicating that, and drivers are obeying the speed limit. Are these drivers accountable to that old fart?
Keep trying, you'll find an analogy that's equivalent. Meanwhile, I'm going to run out and compute at my local cafe which provides free Wifi and has electrical outlets in the downstairs "study space." And yes, it's all cool. |
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