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[OT] Workstation Slobs 2006 »
« 2006: Year of OS X? Vista delayed till 2007  
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BellBoy
It's pronounced "NEW CLEE AR" you retard
Premium
join:2001-02-20
Los Angeles, CA
clubs:
·Pacific Bell - SBC

 What does it cost to run a 24/7 Mac?

I saw this (»What is cost to run an "always on" computer 24/7/ all year?) in the M$ forum and I thought it might be interesting to compare the two platforms (PC vs. Intel/PPC Macs).

I would guess that a lot of the PCs in that forum are home built, so does anyone have any idea what Apple-only hardware would run in a 24/7 situation? I usually leave mine on 24/7, but when it's not being used it's sleeping so that probably doesn't count in what they were figuring.

Also...does anyone know of an app that would calculate something like that--for example, a weekly or monthly report?
--
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind." - Julius Caesar. Beware the Ides of March Bush!


sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Budd Lake, NJ
·Optimum Online

This will tell you:

»www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009···ing=UTF8
--
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity


BellBoy
It's pronounced "NEW CLEE AR" you retard
Premium
join:2001-02-20
Los Angeles, CA
clubs:
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by sporkme See Profile :

This will tell you:

»www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009···ing=UTF8
There's a great review there...here it is in case it vanishes (I added emphasis about computer usage):
quote:
Two years ago, my electricity consumption jumped about 40% and I ignored the problem until this fall's rate increases. I wanted to find out what I bought back in 2003 that's still eating power today. Enter the P4400 Kill-A-Watt unit, which is the only low-cost product of its type on the market today. I tried but failed to find its specifications online. So I bought a couple of these things to try them out. Here are the details on what it can do.

* How big is the display: 4 digits.
* What are the front-panel button capabilities: volts, amps, watts, volt-amps, power-factor, frequency (hz), KWH, timer (since reset).
* Does it lose its data in a power failure: yes.
* You have to plug the unit into a nonswitched wall outlet, it can't measure overhead lighting or large appliances.
* It will report the amount of time (hours:min up to 99:59, then hours for about a year) since last reset but won't tell you how much of that time the attached device was powered on.

How did I figure out usage? I created an Excel spreadsheet with the following columns: Device, estimated wattage, estimated hours/month, kilowatts avg/month, measured kwh/day, measured kilowatts, annual cost. I went through the house and inventoried everything I could find, entering it into a row of the spreadsheet. Then I filled in the estimates:

- Hours/month: if I use a TV 3 hours a day, I enter the formula 3*365/12; if I use a treadmill 45 minutes on 10 days a month, the formula is 0.45*10*365/12.
- Kilowatts (average over the month): formula is watts*hours/(24*365/12)/1000. If you have a 60-watt light left on 24/7, you should see the value 0.060; if you have it on a 12-hour timer, you should see the value 0.030.
- Annual cost: formula is kilowatts*365*24*cost. Locally the cost is 13.5 cents so a 100-watt device works out to $118.26 per year.

OK once I have that chart I then plug in the Kill-A-Watt to measure the items that might be chewing up more power than my estimates. For a device that you leave on all the time and which uses a steady number of watts, you can simply measure it for a moment and enter the kwh/day figure into your spreadsheet quickly. For devices like refrigerators or computer monitors or TV sets, you will want to leave the unit plugged in anywhere from a day to a week before entering your kwh/day figure.

The first thing that leaped out at me was how much it costs to run those econo-box desktop PCs. Sure enough, the culprit turned out to be those hot AMD and Intel processors: the tech industry wants you to focus on gigahertz and other performance numbers; they'll never tell you how many watts the computer will draw--because no one asks, not even Consumer Reports. A modern desktop easily draws 100 watts: refer to my earlier figure to see how much that costs, a dollar amount bound to go up in the future. Laptops would save power (though not necessarily enough to make up for the purchase price). Turning off the PC when not in use would save money, but at the cost of productivity: if you value your time, you don't like waiting 2 minutes every time you want to check an email (add those 2 minutes up over the course of a year!)

Bottom line: the Kill-A-Watt device will focus your attention on some of the devices that are costing you unnecessary money, and will definitely change the questions you will be asking as you purchase future household devices. I'd like to see a more feature-laden version, but not if it makes the Kill-A-Watt cost much more than the $25 I paid.
--
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind." - Julius Caesar. Beware the Ides of March Bush!


bbarrera
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-23
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
My UPS utility (under WinXP) is showing between 130-200W on a dual-core PowerMac G5 2.3GHz, 2.5GB RAM, GeForce 6600 (256MB RAM), and two Maxtor 300GB drives. Normally it is drawing around 130W, I see power spikes when the disks spin up.


GoodyearMark
Premium
join:2001-05-02
Goodyear, AZ
·Cox HSI


edit:
March 20th, @01:02PM

reply to BellBoy
More importantly how much does a computer draw when it's off but still plugged in?

We've got a kill a watt device and measured everything down to the last alarm clock in our house to create a spreadsheet just like the author did in the earlier post. This helped us conserve power when coupled with a new solar system we installed. I found a Windows box that draws 5 watts an hour when it's not even on. It sits unplugged now.

I don't buy into that ridiculous notion where people say leave your computer on 24/7 since it's hard on the electronics. Hogwash, I haven't had any computer go down yet because I turn them off when not in use.

We've seen our electric bills drop over $35 a month due to conservation and being more knowledgeable about what draws what.
--
Just because a word has an S in it doesn't mean it needs an apostrophe too.


BellBoy
It's pronounced "NEW CLEE AR" you retard
Premium
join:2001-02-20
Los Angeles, CA
clubs:
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by GoodyearMark See Profile :

I found a Windows box that draws 5 watts an hour when it's not even on. It sits unplugged now.
OMG! Windows rips you off even when it's not on! (it's a j/k--down trolls, down!)

I leave my Mac on (sleeping) 24/7 for convenience...if it turns out it's killing my electric bill I may have to reconsider if it's worth it.
--
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind." - Julius Caesar. Beware the Ides of March Bush!


thorgod
I've modeled explosions, BIG explosions

join:2001-07-30
Socorro, NM
·Embarq

reply to BellBoy
The clencher:

Every mac that Apple sells has a page like this one:
»www.apple.com/imac/whatsinside.html

On there it says the new iMac has a max usage of 180 watts. So someone do the math other than me, the guy getting a B.S. in math.
--
"Recognize good and evil is born." - Tao Te Ching, Lao-Tzu


bbarrera
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-23
Sacramento, CA
clubs:

Problem is that is max power consumption. The PowerMac tech specs say 10amps @ 120volts, or 1200 watts, but the measured consumption is 130-200 watts which is about 10-17% of max power draw.

You gotta measure under actual usage to get a real handle on the power consumption. One way to measure power is with UPS utility (if you have UPS). Unfortunately the brain-dead APC utility on OS X doesn't show power load, so you got to use another utility or use the Windows APC utility. Another way is to use the kill-a-watt meter mentioned earlier.


thorgod
I've modeled explosions, BIG explosions

join:2001-07-30
Socorro, NM
That's a great idea. Or one of us can get out a calculator and figure out the most a Mac can cost. Although, I'll admit I tried and came up with some weird figures.
--
"Recognize good and evil is born." - Tao Te Ching, Lao-Tzu


SpyderCKE
We call that the Dennis Miller Ratio
Premium
join:2000-10-26
Milwaukee, WI

reply to thorgod
»docs.info.apple.com/article.html···um=32486

This may be a little more useful. This is for the PowerMac G5, found by:

-Apple.com
-Support
-Computer and Servers (near top of support)
-Machine Type
-"Find General Info About Specs" Section at bottom
-"Power Consumption and Thermal Output (BTU) Information"

This at least provides Idle and Max loads, if people just want to approximate where they typically sit. Remember you pay power in KILO watts (kW)
--
See you on:
AA:SF - [69th SAG] SpyderCKE
XBL - H2 - eTard


rjackson
Premium,Mod
join:2002-04-02
Ringgold, GA
clubs:
reply to BellBoy
This is in French, but it should be easy enough to understand.

»www.cuk.ch/articles.php?unique=953

Looks like one Power Mac G5 consumes as much power as 11 iBooks.


BellBoy
It's pronounced "NEW CLEE AR" you retard
Premium
join:2001-02-20
Los Angeles, CA
clubs:
·Pacific Bell - SBC


edit:
March 20th, @06:06PM

said by rjackson See Profile :

This is in French, but it should be easy enough to understand.
You said it brudder...
said by Frenchy :
Conclusion:
You included/understood it, it is strongly advised:
* to extinguish any PC as of 30 to 60 minutes of inactivity.
* always to disconnect the catch sector when the machine is extinct, or to use a switch.
* to take account of the consumption of energy at the time of the purchase. PowerMac G5 consumes as much as 11 iBook G4 14". Now you know from which the "Power" in "PowerMac comes";).

--
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind." - Julius Caesar. Beware the Ides of March Bush!

russotto

join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA

reply to BellBoy
Nit: It's not 5 watts per hour; it's 5 watts. Watts are a measure of power, which is energy per unit time.

Energy Star compliant systems (which include all current Macs, I believe) have a maximum power consumption when in low power mode of 15 watts. The iMac G5 uses 4.3 watts in low power (sleep) mode, more or less the same as that windows machine.

Those of us who live in climates where we either need heat or A/C most of the year don't have to worry overmuch about this stuff... HVAC swamps everything else.


GoodyearMark
Premium
join:2001-05-02
Goodyear, AZ
·Cox HSI


edit:
March 20th, @06:27PM

said by russotto See Profile :

Nit: It's not 5 watts per hour; it's 5 watts. Watts are a measure of power, which is energy per unit time.

5 watts what? Second? Minute? Hour? Day? Year? Century?

Why isn't it 5 watts per hour? We pay our PG&E bill based on the killowatt hour. And they tell us they charge .017 cents or whatever the rate is per killowatt hour. So it would seem to me the kill a watt device is reporting its electrical findings based on the hour unit of time measurement.

Convince me otherwise.

From the manufacturer's website:

Connect your appliances into the Kill A Watt™, and assess how efficient they are. A large LCD display counts consumption by the Kilowatt-hour just like utility companies. You can figure out your electrical expenses by the hour, day, week, month, even an entire year. Monitor the quality of your power by displaying Voltage, Line Frequency, and Power Factor.

»www.p3international.com/products···-CE.html

russotto

join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA

reply to BellBoy
5 watts. If you leave a 5 watt device on for an hour, you've used 5 watt-hours of energy. Leave it on all day and you've used 120 watt-hours. Leave it on for a month, you've used 3.6 kilowatt-hours, which will cost you a few cents.

As for the Kill A Watt, it appears it can display watts OR cumulative kilowatt-hours, depending on how you set it up.


shutrbug

join:2000-10-18
San Jose, CA

By the way, the Killawatt's are $27.50 at supermediastore.com with free shipping. The price shows $28.99, but if you enter the coupon code "killawatt" when checking out, it gives you an additional 5% off. Coupon is good through 3/22. I just ordered one.

joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday

join:2001-09-07
Wayland, MA
·Comcast Formerly ..

reply to GoodyearMark
Usage is an instant read of the power consumed. A 100W bulb will use a kilo-watt hour in 10 hours that it's on.
And if you pay .017 (are you sure it's not .17 as in 17 cents?) that would be cheap indeed.

Another way; 5W X 168 hrs = 840WH = .84 Kilo-Watt hrs.

.84 KWH * 20cents/KWH = 16.8 cents I owe.

The units have to work, i.e cancel out so you owe cents and not something like cent-hrs, or cent-watts.

JOE


thorgod
I've modeled explosions, BIG explosions

join:2001-07-30
Socorro, NM
·Embarq

By that math it costs about $120/year to run my new iMac *all the time at maximum consumption.*

I have a feeling my laptop is bit less than that, so say around $60/year. Making $180 for the whole schebang.
--
"Recognize good and evil is born." - Tao Te Ching, Lao-Tzu

NDPTAL85

join:2002-01-23
Boston, MA
I balanced out my power usage by replacing all my incandesecent light bulbs with flourescent ones.


thender
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

reply to BellBoy
The comparison between PC and mac as far as power consumption goes is ridiculous.

If I have a winchester AMD64, 3000+, running with low voltage 2.5v RAM, low speed minimal fans, a crappy x300se video card, a low specced power supply, and minimal drives, it'll win.

If I have a dual core Intel piece of garbage with a large 850 watt power supply from PC&Power Cooling supporting a watercooled system, SLI with overclocked graphics cards and lots of fans on the interior and lots of drives, with high voltage winbond utt ch5 or bh5 RAM, it'll probably lose.
--
The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
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