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Ummmyea
@208.17.x.x
 from:
techjoe 
| Re: Interesting idea but.... please refer to the TOS where it says speed is gauranteed.
And if you find it, please post it here. | |
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N10Cities
SILENCE I Keel You
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Roland, OK
clubs:
1 edit | Re: Interesting idea but.... said by Ummmyea :
please refer to the TOS where it says speed is gauranteed.
And if you find it, please post it here.
................. | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Re: Interesting idea but.... Exactly. That's why refunds aren't appropriate.
If you want refunds, then get a connection with a guarantee. | |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | Re: Interesting idea but.... Right-O! | |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs: | Fact is no one does unless you want to pay a ridiculous amount a month. | |
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crying morons
@bellsouth.net
from:
CrazyFingers
| It clearly states in most broadband TOS that it is a "BEST EFFORT" service. If you are too stupid to understand that, you DO NOT deserve to have broadband. Most companies do their best to provide you with the best possible speeds. If you would like a guaranteed bandwidth range and guaranteed 24/7 up time then you need to look at the ds1/ds3 arena. These are guaranteed lines and they cost what you would expect to pay for the service you will get from them. DSL/Cable/BPL- these services are made to be cheap- so don't b*tch when you don't get what your buddy gets who lives down the road. Granted if you have a line issue, it should be fixed. But just keep that in the back of your head a 1.544mb symmetric ds1 costs several hundred dollars a month most isps have 6.0mb asymmetric line for under 60 dollars. Think about that the next time you have something to whine about! | |
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NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
 ·VOIPo
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by crying morons :
It clearly states in most broadband TOS that it is a "BEST EFFORT" service. If you are too stupid to understand that, you DO NOT deserve to have broadband. Most companies do their best to provide you with the best possible speeds. If you would like a guaranteed bandwidth range and guaranteed 24/7 up time then you need to look at the ds1/ds3 arena. These are guaranteed lines and they cost what you would expect to pay for the service you will get from them. DSL/Cable/BPL- these services are made to be cheap- so don't b*tch when you don't get what your buddy gets who lives down the road. Granted if you have a line issue, it should be fixed. But just keep that in the back of your head a 1.544mb symmetric ds1 costs several hundred dollars a month most isps have 6.0mb asymmetric line for under 60 dollars. Think about that the next time you have something to whine about!
You make an excellent point but how many times do you see someone post: "my 14.95 a month DSL line has been down and Verizon is making me lose 10 thousand dollars a day" or "Comcast caused me to lose my business because users can't get to my web site or my email is down etc..."
Lose my business? Then get a business grade circuit that has an SLA with 5 nines so that your livelihood is not based on a single point of failure.
But whine they do....  | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
 ·Comcast
| said by crying morons :
It clearly states in most broadband TOS that it is a "BEST EFFORT" service. If you are too stupid to understand that, you DO NOT deserve to have broadband. Most companies do their best to provide you with the best possible speeds. If you would like a guaranteed bandwidth range and guaranteed 24/7 up time then you need to look at the ds1/ds3 arena. These are guaranteed lines and they cost what you would expect to pay for the service you will get from them. DSL/Cable/BPL- these services are made to be cheap- so don't b*tch when you don't get what your buddy gets who lives down the road. Granted if you have a line issue, it should be fixed. But just keep that in the back of your head a 1.544mb symmetric ds1 costs several hundred dollars a month most isps have 6.0mb asymmetric line for under 60 dollars. Think about that the next time you have something to whine about!
Actually all you need is a T1 with an SLA. No need for a ds1/ds3.
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YourIP.US - Quickly Locate Your IP! | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by Rob :said by crying morons :
It clearly states in most broadband TOS that it is a "BEST EFFORT" service. If you are too stupid to understand that, you DO NOT deserve to have broadband. Most companies do their best to provide you with the best possible speeds. If you would like a guaranteed bandwidth range and guaranteed 24/7 up time then you need to look at the ds1/ds3 arena. These are guaranteed lines and they cost what you would expect to pay for the service you will get from them. DSL/Cable/BPL- these services are made to be cheap- so don't b*tch when you don't get what your buddy gets who lives down the road. Granted if you have a line issue, it should be fixed. But just keep that in the back of your head a 1.544mb symmetric ds1 costs several hundred dollars a month most isps have 6.0mb asymmetric line for under 60 dollars. Think about that the next time you have something to whine about!
Actually all you need is a T1 with an SLA. No need for a ds1/ds3. DS1 = T1, DS3 = T3. the acro's mean the same thing. theres a digital signal present for data.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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avantare
Go Tribe
join:2000-02-16
Farmington, MI | T-1's are Federally regulated for speed and up-time. I am also going to assume everything bigger is as well.
Chuck
--
Warner Music Group CEO Edgar Bronfman, Jr. "We're not greedy. We just want more money." | |
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80 percent
@telus.net
| I think they should be forced to offer at least 80% of the speeds advertised 80% of the time on 100% of the network.. If they can't do that then it's false advertising... You can't put ridiculous statments in the TOS and say it is actually enforcable....
If a company is too cheap to upgrade a congested area (they claim it's not going to relieve the problem) I think it's a joke. when I worked for Cogeco, that's all the engineers would keep saying.. "If we add more upstream and downstream frequencies by splitting the nodes, all that bw will be saturated the same night.."
I found it pathetic that they thought this was an acceptable answer to the problem..(basically do nothing but throttle) If you can't offer 80% of the speed during peak times, then you have a poorly designed/run network..(the caps are too high) | |
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NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
·VOIPo
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by 80 percent :
I think they should be forced to offer at least 80% of the speeds advertised 80% of the time on 100% of the network..
I found it pathetic that they thought this was an acceptable answer to the problem..(basically do nothing but throttle) If you can't offer 80% of the speed during peak times, then you have a poorly designed/run network..(the caps are too high)
Ahhhh perhaps yes but then the companies need to build the product using the bottoms up approach. Figure out the cost to engineer it, price it accordingly and then offer it in accordance with proper design.
This stuff does not just happen and get "productized" for free.
The problem is that people don't want to pay for quality. They want OC-192 bandwidth for 14.95 a month.
So your points are well taken but ALL of the carriers need to be careful of what the sell if they can't support it and make a decent margin on it to support it.
Am I alone in this view? | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Ummmyea :
please refer to the TOS where it says speed is gauranteed.
And if you find it, please post it here.
if you want guarantees, buy a connection with a SLA e.g. a T1 line.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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pahuser
@comcast.net
from:
Vvian Kalyss
| Re: Interesting idea but.... Before I rant, I do understand there may be times where speeds are perhaps a tad slower. I know why this happens, and can occasionally live with it. Having said that, I guarantee you this. If it becomes a problem, and I don't get the advertised speed, they will fix it. If it slows down, I guarantee you, I will call them again, and again, and again. I also guarantee you, that eventually, they will give me a refund (they've already done so). I can also guarantee you, that they will know I will switch to a provider that can give me adequate service, should their sub-par service continue.
So why do you select few get on some of these folks cases, accusing them of whining about it. You sound like a corporate crony. Good business practice is good business practice. Maybe they don't have to "guarantee anything" in their TOS. But I guarantee you this, if pathetic and continual sub-par service is what a company offers, then they cannot advertise speeds they cannot deliver, and they will not survive. | |
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cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by pahuser :
Before I rant, I do understand there may be times where speeds are perhaps a tad slower. I know why this happens, and can occasionally live with it. Having said that, I guarantee you this. If it becomes a problem, and I don't get the advertised speed, they will fix it. If it slows down, I guarantee you, I will call them again, and again, and again. I also guarantee you, that eventually, they will give me a refund (they've already done so). I can also guarantee you, that they will know I will switch to a provider that can give me adequate service, should their sub-par service continue.
So why do you select few get on some of these folks cases, accusing them of whining about it. You sound like a corporate crony. Good business practice is good business practice. Maybe they don't have to "guarantee anything" in their TOS. But I guarantee you this, if pathetic and continual sub-par service is what a company offers, then they cannot advertise speeds they cannot deliver, and they will not survive.
Man, you said it all right there. Of the replies I've read down to here, the whiners are the ones you're responding to. Or, at least the "holier than thou" attitude type people. If my service were to go down to 80% efficiency for a prolonged period, you better believe I'm calling and complaining also. I don't expect a guarantee on speeds, but dang well better be getting close to "advertised" (NOT guaranteed) speeds. Expecting anything less makes you a total fool and also means I have a bridge for sale that I bet I can con you into buying simply because you are total pushover who is afraid to speak up!! 
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Spread Free Opera. Fastest browser on Earth or in Cyberspace!! | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | I think capping the amount one can download is a lot worse, than an oversold cable node were you get slower speeds during peak hours. | |
| | bignate
join:2005-12-05
Austin, TX
| the problem is that it is impossible to test for sure.. the web is one of those weakest link kind of things.
like for instance if you have 1.5m/384k dsl and your buddy has the same thing and you download from him you are going to get 384 at best. even though your down speed is 1.5, his upload is only 384, so you will get 384. and even less than that if he has any other applications taking up any bandwidth.
it works the same on the web, even though again you have 1.5m, the site you are going to may either not have that much bandwidth or have too many people using up that bandwidth at any given moment keeping you from achieving the 1.5 you are paying for.
throughput has both ends and everything in between to deal with. all we are buying is a speed from our houses to the internet portal... | |
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CaptainObvious
@americainter.net | There is a reason we charge $49 bucks for BEST EFFORT 1.5 DSL and $425 for a T1 with an SLA. If your bandwidth is really that important to your job or what ever then come off the money and pay for it. | |
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phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Look, being ripped off is paying $600 - $1100 for a T1 at 1,500 up/1,500 down. If you have RESIDENTIAL service, then you have no say so, simply because you SHARE the pipe. Now, if your speed issues stay at an absolute crawl for 6 hours or more a day (like 1000kbps less during off peak hours for the majority of the day), and the symptoms do not get better within a week or two, then you have right to complain, especially if your ping times suffer, and you get packet loss. If you depend on internet as much as you depend on air, then get something that has a guarantee'd transfer rate, instead of something that is cheaper.. | |
| | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Interesting idea but.... I'd only pay $399.00 for that. Speak Easy has T-1 1.5 service for $399 a month. $299 if you want 384. But hey, you get that SLA..
This is no different than cell phones. When they were too expensive for everyone, people that had them, like me, had better service.
I really wish that broadband users would wake up and get a clue. Most of the bb users see what they WANT to see. Where does DSL state that the speeds advertised are guaranteed or what you will actually get? Anyone that uses DSL knows it's distance limited and speeds may vary on many factors. Cable modem service is the same thing. The speeds up "UP TO" speeds. So, please tell me where they are not advertising the speeds correctly? They are required to provide at least 256k to the end user by law to be broadband service.
I also wish that the DSL and cable companies would price service back up in the $80 range with $250.00 install fees so more people would jump off the net. | |
| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by Jameson :Look, im not a big fan of sarcasm; Like i said, they better provied what im paying for or hell yes im going to call in every time my speeds drop below 100kbps of what im paying for. Its BS that people are getting screwed for their money, and to tell you the truth im sick of it. You are paying for speeds "up to" the speed advertised. What part of that don't you understand?
I think it's incredible how home/residential users think that they can get SLA based speeds for starting at $12.95 a month up to about $42.00 a month.
If this were the case, I bet ever business in the world would stop purchasing T-1 T-3, and other large trunk links for internet.
If you expect and desire internet that doesn't drop below 100kbps of what you pay for, then you should give up and get off the internet.
Even corporate networks drop below that point at times during heavy use. Get real!
This is nothing more than election year politics. Come on! What ever happened to gay marriage? | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| said by ptrowski :said by Jameson :said by ptrowski :I can't see it coming into practice, as the minute the speeds dip people will be calling in like crazy for refunds etc. Than they better watch their networks better. Right....and there is never any congestion etc when people come home. It all depends where you put your instrumentation. The closer you put the speed meters to your customer's computer, the more likely you are to eliminate general network congestion effects. And, really, if someone buys 7Mbps service and they're getting 7Mbps to their CO or head end, then they're getting what they pay for.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by JTRockville :I don't think anyone buys internet service just so they can reach the head-end. ISP are responsible for the backbone too, even if it's a service they contract for. True, but, you can be certain that the average refund-seeker's only going to be worried about how fast they can load a page from "site X". What if "site X" is the bottleneck and not the ISP or any of the hops in between?
said by JTRockville :Maybe backbone providers should be rated separately, so ISPs can make an informed choice too. Probably. A good instrumentation program would provide the tester with local loop speed, CO/head end to PoP speed and PoP to network perimeter speed, all in one handy report.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Interesting idea but.... said by JTRockville :I think ISPs should be free to provide crappy speeds, as long as they don't say otherwise. Which is part of why my ISP sells theirs as "speeds up to" for any given speed tier. Though, they do tend to be good about reducing you to a lower payment tier if your line won't consistently support the speed of the tier you bought.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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pahuser
@comcast.net
| Re: Interesting idea but.... Accuse me of being overly literal, and comparing apples and oranges. But what if only 8 out of 10 of your cable channels came in at any given time. Sometimes 7 out of 10, 9 out of 10, 5 out of 10. You gonna keep paying for 10 out of 10 service. I guess there's no clause on the TV side of the house that says, you will get up to 100 channels, if you have, say cable internet. Oh, and for DSL users, on the voice side of the house, only 7 or 8 out of 10 of your calls will go through or stay connected, sometimes 5 or 6. But that's what you have to expect. You can't expect perfection here (hehehehe).
I find nothing wrong in holding these ISPs accountable for maintaining speeds at, or extremely close to what they advertise. Up to??? How much "up to" are you willing to give?? Y'all sound like a bunch of push overs. And, refunds are totally acceptable. I'm not going to pay for a service that doesn't meet my standard. | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Re: Interesting idea but.... I do believe that's the first time anyone's ever accused me of being a pushover when it comes to my expectations of residential broadband.
I may have to reconsider my position on refunds. | |
| | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| You don't buy cable tv with "up to 100 channels".. you DO, however, purchase speeds "up to X"... if you look at where it really matters, it's actually 256 or best effort.
DSL is actually a little better about this. They sell speeds at 256kbps UP TO 1.5 (Going on SBC here) and 1.5m UP TO 3M.
So once again, here we are.. we see what we want to see, right? On the 1.5 to 3MB tier, I suppose you are going to hold them to the 3mb because that's what you see, right? Ok, in the case of selling at least 80% of the advertised speeds, they would only have to deliver AT LEAST 80% of the 1.5 tier since they are selling you 1.5mb UP TO the 3.0. This has NEVER been a shocker people..
Come on.. wake up and get real for once would you? | |
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anonpronman
@optonline.net
| "And, really, if someone buys 7Mbps service and they're getting 7Mbps to their CO or head end, then they're getting what they pay for."
Really Tom? Are we paying for Co or head end access?
No that's right we are not paying for either. We are paying for internet access.
Foolish Mortals | |
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