Derspankster
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Marion, OH
 ·RoadRunner Cable
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Heterman
Re: What do you need extra for?
said by Heterman  :Linksys router, Windows XP firewall on. I don't see all the need for the extra stuff. Me either. I've been running 4 boxes on a network that way for quite some time now. No problems what-so-ever.
--
I thought I made a mistake once but I was wrong |
|
wriley
I'M Sick Of Fixing Your Computer.
Premium
join:2001-08-30
Edmonton, AB
clubs:  
| Yeah I never run anything more than the windows firewall. Im not sure what the point of any of that test are. Why the hell would I be worried about outbound traffic. As long as my system has no viruses and spyware Im fine. Once a program gets onto your system no ammount of outbound protection is going to help your messed up computer. |
|
Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR
| said by wriley : Why the hell would I be worried about outbound traffic. As long as my system has no viruses and spyware Im fine. Once a program gets onto your system no ammount of outbound protection is going to help your messed up computer. My thoughts exactly. If it can't get in, then how's it gonna send stuff out? People need to be more cautious of what emails they open and where they browse. Maybe they should consider getting a decent AV software. |
|
barnett25
join:2004-01-26
Huntington, WV
| reply to wriley
Ah, but how do you know if there is something on your computer? Antivirus and adaware don't detect everything. But when a suspicious program pops up trying to get out just after you went to a "bad" site or opened an email you know something is on your computer. That way you are not one of the millions of people who's computers are part of a botnet without them even knowing it. |
|
Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR | I watch where I go and what I do. Simple as that. |
|
tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| reply to wriley
said by wriley :Yeah I never run anything more than the windows firewall. Im not sure what the point of any of that test are. Why the hell would I be worried about outbound traffic. As long as my system has no viruses and spyware Im fine. Once a program gets onto your system no ammount of outbound protection is going to help your messed up computer.  Yeah.. lots of people said the same thing about seat belts, air bags and condoms..  All it takes is one time and it (they) have paid for themselves.. I think that's the point. |
|
tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| reply to Heterman
said by Heterman :I watch where I go and what I do. Simple as that. Get out much? |
|
Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| reply to tc1uscg
said by tc1uscg : Yeah.. lots of people said the same thing about seat belts, air bags and condoms.. All it takes is one time and it (they) have paid for themselves.. I think that's the point. That's not exactly a valid parallel to surfing without a software firewall. For one, "automobile accident" can't get into your car and make your seatbelts not work without you knowing.
I don't use a software firewall anymore because I have good surfing habits and thus have never seen one block something that should have been blocked.
--
Hail Xenu! |
|
nekkidtruth
You fail at life.
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
| reply to Heterman
said by Heterman :I watch where I go and what I do. Simple as that. That does NOT mean you are not infected with anything, nor that you won't ever be.
This level of ignorance is what spawns massive networks of zombie PC's, or how your personal information leaks out to some companies etc.
Anyone, who for even a second believes they're immune just because they think they're "careful" is seriously delusional.
There's no such thing. These softwares/hardwares are created for a reason. They're not just there for the hell of it.
Sorry Heterman, I don't mean to be insulting, but this kind of ignorance is seen all to often, and when you frequent a massive online community like this one with several experts and information about security, there's no excuse for anyone to be saying "I don't need a firewall." or "I don't need an AV". That is complete BS.
--
Biting off more then we can chew... |
|
DownTheShore
Maddie Knows Poopie
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
clubs:
| reply to Combat Chuck
said by Combat Chuck :said by tc1uscg : Yeah.. lots of people said the same thing about seat belts, air bags and condoms.. All it takes is one time and it (they) have paid for themselves.. I think that's the point. That's not exactly a valid parallel to surfing without a software firewall. For one, "automobile accident" can't get into your car and make your seatbelts not work without you knowing. I don't use a software firewall anymore because I have good surfing habits and thus have never seen one block something that should have been blocked. But all it takes is one mistyped URL and then you can accidentally wind up someplace you never wanted to go, no matter how "good" your surfing habits are. 
--
Life is simply one damned thing after another. |
|
Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR
| reply to nekkidtruth
I never said I didn't have a firewall. I use XP firewall and I am behind a Linksys router. Did you not see that post? I think not, but in case you did, keep reading.
I just don't believe in the software firewalls. Not that they may not work, it's just I don't see a reason.
Oh, lastly, if you think my computer is infected with some virus or even spyware, I will be more than happy to run whatever programs/applications you have in your toolbox. How much money/toolpoints do you wanna bet that my system is clean? It has been clean for a long time now. By the way, what AV do you use? |
|
Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
2 edits | reply to DownTheShore
said by DownTheShore :But all it takes is one mistyped URL and then you can accidentally wind up someplace you never wanted to go, no matter how "good" your surfing habits are. 1. I don't use IE as my main browser
2. The settings for IE are locked down
3. I know what processes should be running and when
So my surfing habits have little to do with where I go but how I get there. In addition I've never had a software firewall that didn't cause me to have to work around it; be it causing some software to not work properly or a reduction in my speeds software firewalls have been nothing but trouble for me add to that the fact that I have never had it actually pop up and tell me something was connecting that I didn't know was going to do so. And I'm not telling anyone not to use a software firewall if you want to use it go ahead; just remember there is the school of thought that if your system is already compromised you can't rely on the software present on it to let you know.
There are too many chicken littles posing as security experts running around insisting that everyone use this or that in the stead of knowing your software, knowing what you're doing, and knowing the tools available.
I was yelled at the other day by a friend who runs no less than 3 on demand spyware scanners and multiple on demand AV's in addition to multiple software firewalls. He said my system was insecure and then went on to complain that his system was running slowly and thus he thought he was infected with something.
--
Hail Xenu! |
|
wriley
I'M Sick Of Fixing Your Computer.
Premium
join:2001-08-30
Edmonton, AB
clubs:
2 edits | reply to tc1uscg
Well for one I have virus protection and I have done virus scans and spyware scans, now besides for some cookies I have never in 11 years of broadband been infected. And how does it pay for its self. Even If I got infected it would take me 10 minutes to re-image my system. Explain to me how spending time configuring a firewall, paying for a firewall and taking all that time and resources from my system would pay for its self?? Even a full format and reinstall is 1 hour (i re-mage in 10 min) so how would it pay for its self? Where is my cost? Where is my accident without a seatbelt?
3rd party firewalls are great for people who dont know much about computers. but im doing just fine the way I am. Many of the people I talk to had more problems because of the false sence of security one of these pointless firewalls gives them.
About 3 or 4 years ago I had this argument with some people on a board here, I turned off my xp firewall and all virus protection and posted my ip address here, All those people who said they could hack it in a second shut up after 2 days of trying. |
|
tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| said by wriley : Well for one I have virus protection and I have done virus scans and spyware scans, now besides for some cookies I have never in 11 years of broadband been infected. And how does it pay for its self. ...... so how would it pay for its self? Where is my cost? Where is my accident without a seatbelt? 3rd party firewalls are great for people who dont know much about computers.
BINGO! That's why people are arguing with you. A IT person worth thier weight will never belittle someone because they want peace of mind. You explain the risks, the pros/cons and provide them services based on needs, wants and habits. Would you buy a teenager a cell phone with a 100 minute plan, telling them NEVER to go over?  I've worked around electronics in the military for 20 years. I now work in a central office of a telco going on 7+ years. I use to NEVER wear a wriststrap when working with any IC boards, PC's, etc.. But I do now because it's required. I've never fried a board in all my times of working with PC's by not wearing static strap so why should I? So, I've got 27 years of being around PC's and the like and have yet to fry a board. What does that prove? Nothing. But my company requires us to wear them. Why? Why would I take a chance of frying a OC192 transceiver board just because I've never done it before? And because they pay me to be careful. You can count yourself lucky as you never get "trashed". I've gone in and fixed peoples systems that would be better off just replacing the hard drive and starting over (I do this on the side). I visit sites that try to dump anything they can on your system. I want peace of mind, I have it. Do us all a favor. Don't belittle people because they want this peace mind. Rather it's a hour you spend restoring your system or whatever. I don't spend 1 minute. My cost? Nothing. For the cost of taking my family of 5 out to Wendy's, I know I'm safe even though I take chances. |
|
wriley
I'M Sick Of Fixing Your Computer.
Premium
join:2001-08-30
Edmonton, AB
clubs:
| WTF??? You never "restore" your system? Wow thats great never re-imaging ever, you are very lucky. You sound like you know alot about viruses. Please explain how it would ever be better to replace the HDD then the format and reinstall? You have to spend the same amount of time with the new HDD. |
|
nekkidtruth
You fail at life.
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON | I don't believe that's what he said at all. Quit being an ass.
--
[] |
|
tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
2 edits | reply to wriley
said by wriley :WTF??? You never "restore" your system? Wow thats great never re-imaging ever, you are very lucky. You sound like you know alot about viruses. Please explain how it would ever be better to replace the HDD then the format and reinstall? You have to spend the same amount of time with the new HDD. Well, for one, HD's are so cheap, take the subjects 80gb out and slap in a 200. Or stick in a couple of 120's, and put critical data on the 2nd drive which doubles the chance of not loosing anything worth keeping on nr 1. But I'm not here to argue the point of re-imaging or not. The point being, I've restored my PC once in the past 2 years. Only because I upgraded the HD, added a 2nd. So, I started fresh. I keep my system clean and perform housing keeping about 2 times a month. I have 3 kids, all with PC's or access to one, and 3 laptops (2 old ones but portable and the kids like to take them outside). I have 1 primary laptop and desktop the kids are not allowed access to. All these except the primary PC are all wireless. Even my sons Xbox 360 and PS2 share a WGA54G adapter for gaming. Maybe you see my point when I rather keep the system as safe as I can without the worry of having to do a restore. I run ZA internet suite. It does everything I want and keeps my kids out of trouble. And that's what software is for. Non tech types, the majority of users out there, want to sit down, go on line and feel safe too. They don't want to be bothered with pop ups, cookies, 1 month of surfing and 1gb of "trash" on the hard drive. I or they can have 20 routers all lined up in a pretty row and it's not going to protect my system from some ahole sending spam to my kids email and them or my 9 year old when he opens some email on yahoo or gmail then has to hunt me down to fix the damage he and the email has done. So, you feel safe without, I feel safe with. It's my money, my time, therefore, you can flash all the certificates you want, my experience and judgement makes me feel like I know what I'm doing and so far, it's paid off.  I'm just not willing to take the chance. I think you can understand that. |
|
wriley
I'M Sick Of Fixing Your Computer.
Premium
join:2001-08-30
Edmonton, AB
clubs: | You said its cheaper to get a new hdd then to fix a computer with viruses. I still dont understand. A HDD could be free, but you still format and install windows. Takes same time, doesnt matter if its new or full of viruses. |
|
tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| reply to tc1uscg
Because your "average" user will carry off their PC to some PC shop who will charge them some good cash to clean it up. Recommend a bunch of upgrades when all they needed in the first place is some good software to stop this from happening. I think that's what this topic was about. |
|
