OS and Software > Webmasters and Developers > Get NAKED!!!

reply to JAAulde

Re: Get NAKED!!!

reply to JAAulde
Looks like we've been awarded the prestigious "Places with lame comments" award, bottom of this page. Now everyone bow their head in shame for entertaining the radical idea of an open discussion...

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"When I get real bored, I like to drive downtown and get a great parking spot,
then sit in my car and count how many people ask me if I'm leaving. -- Steven Wright

reply to JAAulde
:| Weak. Just because some people don't like the idea is no reason to boycott the site.
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AMD Athlon64 4000+ @ 2723mhz - mountaincable.net wireless Intarweb |Ipods SUCK

reply to Dustin Diaz
My site doesn't use CSS at all. My site is always naked! 24/7/365. Not just for one day out of the year. That should make me eligible for a special prize!!

reply to Dustin Diaz

reply to Dustin Diaz

reply to JAAulde
You guys all seem to be mssing the point. This is sort of like a hunger strike to call attention to a certain issue. It's a way to force the issue. Bring the topic to the forefront with a tactic that can't be missed.

Sure, it might make users go, "Wait, what's going on here?" but thing is - THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT.

The fact is, most of the sites participating are geared toward web design and development anyway. That might beg the question of how useful this little "hunger strike" is, but it's certainly doing it's job here. Getting people to notice the use of CSS and talk about its impact on accessibility.
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reply to Dustin Diaz
Well how about that: anybody who suggests thoughtful dis-adherence to this is jealous - wow.

This is just a mis-placed idea. It's been claimed that eCommerce sites probably shouldn't do this, but I believe that's much too narrow of a restriction. The only folks for whom this makes sense are for sites where the content is about web design.

Everybody who lands on their site one way or another has at least a passing interest in web design and has a fighting chance at understanding what this is about. If you are looking for how to code a table, or a snippet of CSS, or whatever - you're going to "get it" about what this is about because the content attracts that kind of receptive visitor.

The vast majority of other sites won't. My site gets a decent amount of traffic via Google for people looking for my Tech Tips, and I would be surprised if 1% of them had any idea what "semantic markup" even meant.

So they're going to think I've regressed to 1995 unless I put notes at the top of every page, which will do nothing but get people to think that I'm a geek whose lost touch with the real world. Yah, that's the kind of first impression I want to make.

The proper answer to those who don't care to do this is "it's not for everybody", but believing your idea is so righteous that everybody else is just jealous demonstrates either that you're 16 years old or you need to get a grip.

Lame idea: CSS Naked Day
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site

reply to jDyno

reply to Steve
What's the big deal? Why are you people taking this so personally? If you don't want to participate, just don't. Nobody is forcing this on anybody. It's just one person't way of bringing up issues surrounding CSS, semantic markup, and accessibility.

It pretty much goes without saying that the only people that really care about this stuff are the people that build such web sites - but htis may be a bigger group of people than you think. It should matter to not just designers and developers, but also to marketers in charge of web sites, project and account managers at web agencies, government contractors (who must by law have accessible sites), etc.

Like has been said over and over, don't do this on a commercial site. All of my customers are B2B sites. No one is suggesting that they join this movement. It's not their business, market, industry, etc. No one visiting their sites cares in the least. But for those who are in this business, it makes some sense to raise this issue.

Maybe this will cause some people to behind the scenes see how their sites function without styles. You HAVE to think about this now. More and more people are connecting to the web with non-GUI browsers.

Think Treos, Blackberries, etc. Can your site be easily read and surfed with one of these? I had a friend complain about a forum I run not being able to be read easily on his Treo. Who'da thunk it?

Recently, I was with a group of about 10 people, and almost all of them had web-enabled devices of one sort or another that they used at least once while we were together to find information on the web.

How many people do you know that surf the web away from their normal browser? This is a large enough segment that it can't be ignored. And it will only get bigger.

I can easily imagine a customer of mine trying this out - that is, looking at their site without stylesheets (not publicly), if only on a phone or similar device. I can then imagine them calling me to see how I might be able to help them make thier site more accessible as a result. Boom! New business. How lame is the idea now?

So, before you dismiss this out of hand as just some lame idea, take a step back. Even if you choose not to participate, it may still have some value. Real business value. That is money in pocket.

Edit: FWIW, I think Dustin's post about jealousy is off-base, and to come into a forum (of which you aren't an established member) and post stuff like that is troll-like and doesn't really help his cause in anyway. Keep it on the positive tip!

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Ok. Would you like to actually discuss this, or just focus on the fact that we disagree and the semantics of particular excerpts of my post?

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I concede that this isn't for everyone. Do you concede that there may be some value in this? If only that it has gotten people talking about these issues that maybe wouldn't have otherwise?

reply to jDyno
I will concede that disabling stylesheets has some value. It does help to show you how your site will look to some users whose browsers don't use stylesheets. And this doesn't have to be Netscape 4.x (may it rest in pieces ). Screenreaders and mobile devices might not show your CSS entirely the way you wanted them to.

However, that being said, I don't think the "Get Naked" idea is a good one for the majority of sites out there. I would only recommend it for a site whose audience is primarily web design and development folks who would understand what the whole deal is about. And given that, I think that the better way of dealing with this would be the "Browse Naked" approach that forces developers to live one day as a "No Stylesheet" user would. This would give the developers an appreciation of what those users go through every day. (Walk a mile in my shoes.)
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-Jason Levine
My Gallery | Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | URateit.com

reply to Steve

said by Highwayman :

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That doesn't make the idea pointless or stupid as was said by at least 5 people in this thread.

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