pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to axus
Re: Idiots
said by axus  :Isn't this how school districts are funded? Not everyone has school-age children, and not everyone uses broadband, but they are worthwile things to spend for the benefit of society as a whole. No one is debating that governments have to spend money on things. The debate is... why would you spend money on things that are being provided at no cost to the government (such as privately funded broadband) at the expense of other things that the private sector won't provide (universal education)?
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! |
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rahlquist
Redeye
join:2001-10-30
Villa Rica, GA
| While I see and hear your arguments I find it flawed to say that no municipal programs like broadband can work. The simple solution in my book would have been to let the city do its rollout, include a performance mandate to be met. If they couldnt provide the profits needed to be self sustaining then require them after X period of time to shut the network down and sell the fiber to the competition. If anyone at AT&T had half a brain in their head this is what they would encourage if its truly impossible fore muni broadband to make a profit.
Instead the minute they feel threatened they roll out the steamrollers and smash every little iota of competition in their path. No worries though because at the current rate AT&T will be on big fat #@$#@$ Ma Bell again soon and cities will have little choice other than to allow them to do whatever they want. Otherwise AT&T can simply offer to pull out and let the city handle their own infrastructure.
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL | reply to pnh102
That simply isn't true. You do not understand revenue bonds.
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It's muni-licious! »www.tricitybroadband.com |
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djdanska
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Glen Ellyn, IL
clubs: | reply to PeterCollins
Thanks for posting this. It's nice to hear from the other side. (And welcome to dslreports!)
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He who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither freedom nor security. |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
| reply to gao16
Mr. Brannock used those statements as part of a massive FUD campaign against the citizen group, Fiber For Our Future, who proposed (and wrote the question on the ballot in the case of Batavia and St. Charles) the broadband referendum in November 2004. The grassroots citizen organization proposed a muni utility to bring FTTH and FTTB in Geneva, Batavia and St. Charles, IL. It was not a requirement for residents to take service, it would've been a choice to take service (voice, video, or data services).
The citizen's group met with several private financing groups to fund the utility and built a financial model. But muni revenue bonds were also an option. The referendum question prohibited "tax-backed financing" by the cities. In other words, the utility could not be funded by general obligation bonds. The Nov. 2004 referendum was only advisory, and had it passed, was to be used by the cities to begin exploring the possibility of creating a broadband utility without tax-backed financing. If no way could be found to create such a utility, or no vehicle of financing was available, then the utility would not have been created.
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It's muni-licious! »www.tricitybroadband.com |
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BVT
join:2004-10-25
Mount Juliet, TN
| reply to gao16
Tennessee One Call is similar. There is a centralized service that directs the member utilities & underground ROW owners to mark their property themselves.
If they miss mark or do not show up, they shoulder the costs of any damages. They also have to bear the costs of marking their ROW.
A contractor can jerk the utilities around by calling in an emergency order. Then, for whatever reason, let their excavation permit lapse & go get another. Then all utilities have to remark the ROW. |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
1 edit | reply to PeterCollins
One thing I wanted to add about the citizen-driven referendum in Nov. 2004....A few newspapers serving the Tri-Cities inaccurately reported the broadband referendum was "defeated" by a vote of 55%-45% in St. Charles. As a HUGE point of clarification...the broadband referendum vote WAS NEVER CERTIFIED by the Mayor or City Atty. for St. Charles because of ballot errors made by the Kane County Clerk's office.
The broadband question was to be voted on by those residents living within city limits of St. Charles. The problem was that voters outside the city limits of St. Charles also received the broadband question in 17 precincts. Over 4,100 votes were known to have been cast by those living outside of the city limits. A true outcome will never be known for the broadband question in St. Charles. One cannot GUESS about an outcome, or theorize how things might've gone had the ballots been correct. The fact remains ineligible voters were allowed to vote on the question (more than double the difference between yes and no votes originally tallied).
This ballot error also occured in a precinct in Batavia.
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It's muni-licious! »www.tricitybroadband.com |
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T1 Rocky
join:2002-11-15
Dallas, TX
·Time Warner Cable
| reply to PeterCollins
Way to go Peter! It's nice to see someone finally stand up against them and you know your in the right. Your one of the few cities establishing the precedents that will dictate what happens nationwide.
AT&T definately does not have the consumers interest in mind and unfortunately their pockets are deep enough to make politicians look the other way, AGAIN AND AGAIN in every state in the US. |
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Odie97
join:2006-04-19
Oak Creek, WI
| While the whole story around the Tri-City Broadband debacle is now just an amusing "what not to do" discussion it could have gone much better it it were not lead by amateurs and inexperienced people who played right into the ILEC's hands and trap. And you are still playing right into their hands ...
The statement of ... AT&T definitely does not have the consumers interest in mind and unfortunately their pockets are deep enough to make politicians look the other way, AGAIN AND AGAIN in every state ... is exactly right! AT&T's business and mission as a publicly traded entity is to strive to establish shareholder value ... this is their primary mission and objective ... welcome to America.
I continue to be perplexed as to why people and communities keep playing their (the ILECs) game. The only way that anything positive is going to happen is if communities start working around and through NEW AND DIFFERENT models and paths that can navigate around the mine field that has been placed "by the ILECS" over many years. The whole Geneva, Batavia, St Charles discussion is nothing more than the same people saying the same thing around a path and strategy that they screwed up through being inexperienced and naive to the game they were playing and with the teams they were playing against. When people (citizen groups with no experience, money or valid strategies) refuse to listen to people who had been through it before ... are really nothing more than certain individuals attempting to build a name for themselves, while really doing nothing of good or value for their community. |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| quote:
AT&T's business and mission as a publicly traded entity is to strive to establish shareholder value ... this is their primary mission and objective ... welcome to America
No, really? I hadn't noticed. HOWEVER (and I suit up in my flameproof suit for this one), all corporations in this country also have other responsibilities. There's no shareholder value without customers. There's no customers without providing attractive services/products. This skewering of local community's interests in the name of the almighty profit motive just goes to show they (and others) have forgotten that.
The Robber Baron age is just about over, so they better think up really quick how they are going to repair their image of being the Deathstar in search of profit only pretty fast. |
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PhoenixDown
-- Wants FIOS
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
clubs:  | reply to PeterCollins
Excellent points! |
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guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
 ·epix
| reply to garagerock
AT&T spent a boatload of money on those push/pull polls,and also a nice chunk of change on politicians for their back pockets.
This makes me wonder did they run out of money to buy off the local press and squash, those news reports that make them look as if they're a bunch of hypocritical nitwits.?
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Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. |
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Odie97
join:2006-04-19
Oak Creek, WI
| reply to garagerock
NOTE: "primary" mission ... they do all sorts of "other" things (and should be doing a whoile lot more, besides sponsoring Monday Night Football) ... and will always claim they are good corporate citizens. But at the end of the day it is all about the money ... all about the profit ... all about executive mgt. bonus's ... and all about the "market" (Wall Street).
Have our corporate conglomerates (especially the ILEC's)lost sight of "doing good by being good" ... you bet your sweet bippy! Don't get me wrong, I hate them SOB's as much as anyone ... we simply need to stop playing into their hands.
The customer is unfortunately speaking loudly and way too many of us continue to buy their services and drink their brew.
Imagine what would (could) happen if there was a "universal cancellation day" and consumers across America spoke loudly and simply cancelled their service ... you would see them jump if they lost 10 million customers over the course of 2-3 days ... shareholder value would plummet and they would start paying attention. This sill never happen in our lifetime but it sure would be cool to see happen.
We need to change the rules ... not legal or legislative rules ... just simply start acting upon some alternative business models that would stick it to them ... there are several solid and interesting "alternative" models and strategies out there right now, unfortunately everyone is still running around trying to create or re-create strategies that have already been seeded and doing nothing more than creating conflicting plays and not working in effective collaborations. |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
| Odie97,
No one was being nieve here in the Tri-Cities about our referendums and what SBC and Comcast was going to do to us. In fact, many other communities, like our friends in Lafayette, LA benefitted from learning about what we did right, wrong, and what they could expect. I am not saying we were the first munis to try to deploy FTTH, but we were certainly a large enough footprint in a big enough market that a giant battle was waged on us...and we documented it all. Find a bigger one before us...and one our citizen group has not helped educate.
It is because of our very documented battles that others are able to learn from US. Other munis can look at our web site and see what such a battle might cost, what literature from incumbents will look like, etc.... I am proud of our citizens who continue to participate in Fiber For Our Future. We continue to make a difference in IL and elsewhere in the country. Thank you!
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It's muni-licious! »www.tricitybroadband.com |
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Odie97
join:2006-04-19
Oak Creek, WI
| I'm sorry Octopussy2 ... but the gig is up,
There were several people and organizations before you that offered assistance and advice, albeit for a fee, for this is how professionals in this business make a living, and you said just volunteer and give us your knowledge and expertise for free, while some started to do this (foolishly) and quickly found that all of what was offered was being disregarded, (plagiarized) not only by the community leaders but most certainly by the Fiber for our Future assembly.
You were a large enough market with a large enough footprint and you elected to do battle with a force that you had absolutely no real life experience in going against and you elected to tell all that could have helped, to go away, unless they volunteered and gave for free for you to take credit for ... and that you were smarter the all because you lived in the community and had "inside" connections.
I call this naive and can add some other adjectives that I shall refrain from stating. In any event ... now you claim to be experts after having been through simply one project ... a project that you failed to boot, due to blind stupidity and lack of any real experience ... and now these are heralded as lessons learned ... well documented to cover you own foolish tails in my opinion. Now people like you sit on the State of Illinois broadband task force ... my God help Illinois for they are being lead by the blind and foolish.
You guys had an opportunity to do something really good and you blew it! |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL | I really have no clue what you are talking about. Please elaborate.
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It's muni-licious! »www.tricitybroadband.com |
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Odie97
join:2006-04-19
Oak Creek, WI
| Whenever anybody elaborates around the tricitybroadband debacle or fiber-for-our-future assembly and their 15 minutes in the spotlight it simply becomes more bulletin board banter, something new to post on a web site ... it all goes nowhere and serves no purpose, other than to inflate some inexperienced ego's.
It would be really great to see the whole tricitybroadband and fiber-for-our-future "one hit wonder parade" to just go away. (oh yea, and that "one hit" was a foul ball ... matter of fact, you hit two foul balls and the last pitch was a called third strike ... your out!
This whole discussion is just like the GIO list group ... a bunch of meaningless voices ... lots of talk ... unable to put forth anything or take any action, with no money, no direction and no meaning. Just of bunch of chatter from people who can't do anything.
No need to elaborate further ... it is all well documented !
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| said by Odie97 :Whenever anybody elaborates around the tricitybroadband debacle or fiber-for-our-future assembly and their 15 minutes in the spotlight it simply becomes more bulletin board banter, something new to post on a web site ... it all goes nowhere and serves no purpose, other than to inflate some inexperienced ego's. It would be really great to see the whole tricitybroadband and fiber-for-our-future "one hit wonder parade" to just go away. (oh yea, and that "one hit" was a foul ball ... matter of fact, you hit two foul balls and the last pitch was a called third strike ... your out! This whole discussion is just like the GIO list group ... a bunch of meaningless voices ... lots of talk ... unable to put forth anything or take any action, with no money, no direction and no meaning. Just of bunch of chatter from people who can't do anything. No need to elaborate further ... it is all well documented ! curious post...do you take your own advice? so you're just part of the meaningless banter? |
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Odie97
join:2006-04-19
Oak Creek, WI
| I guess I am part of the meaningless banter ... so I will stop now.
Though one item that you may find of intreest is that I actually quit my day job ... bet the ranch via a second and third mortgages on the house (invested about $250K) of my own money to get something started ... because everyone talked but no-one put there money where there mouths were ... and to this day everyone continues to just sit by and watch ... so now I'm a frustrated bantering fool I guess ! So much for trying to actually do something. |
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AJ_CHICAGO
join:2002-12-10
Bartlett, IL
| reply to moonpuppy
Was the village going to rent the fiber in their private network to AT&T and Comcast? Maybe I missed that part. The villages have concerns. Some are ligit. They need to be worked out. Stating that franchise agreements are in order is taking a stand and not "working it out in good faith". Slapping on an upgrade moritorium for 6 months is also not what I would consider trying to "work things out in good faith". What the villages have done is to force the question of franchise agreement relevance to the courts. AT&T has no other viable option on that issue. It must be legally decided, now. |
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