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Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| reply to claudeo
Re: Idiots
said by claudeo  :How do you figure "at no costs to its citizens"? Any use of public right of way (over, under or through it) has a cost to the citizens. What exactly is that cost? Not disputing your claim, but perhaps you could elaborate. | |
marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| said by Cod :said by claudeo :How do you figure "at no costs to its citizens"? Any use of public right of way (over, under or through it) has a cost to the citizens. What exactly is that cost? Not disputing your claim, but perhaps you could elaborate. Well, for one, since this is Illinois the city will be required to map out and digitize the location of all the fiber with no reimbursement (depends on the size of the city, but easily a six figure cost with about $20k/year recurring costs depending on how often AT&T adds infrastructure).
Also, the city will be required to provide (normally through a contractor) locating services on that fiber and be liable for any cuts from bad locates.
Lastly, the ROW that AT&T uses will not be available for other services and if the city wishes to place any services into that ROW (such as sewer and water upgrades) they will have to pay AT&T for that access.
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gao16
join:2006-04-18
Algonquin, IL
| said by marigolds :said by Cod :said by claudeo :How do you figure "at no costs to its citizens"? Any use of public right of way (over, under or through it) has a cost to the citizens. What exactly is that cost? Not disputing your claim, but perhaps you could elaborate. Well, for one, since this is Illinois the city will be required to map out and digitize the location of all the fiber with no reimbursement (depends on the size of the city, but easily a six figure cost with about $20k/year recurring costs depending on how often AT&T adds infrastructure). Also, the city will be required to provide (normally through a contractor) locating services on that fiber and be liable for any cuts from bad locates. Lastly, the ROW that AT&T uses will not be available for other services and if the city wishes to place any services into that ROW (such as sewer and water upgrades) they will have to pay AT&T for that access. No offense, but I would take some issue with all of your points.
First, I believe it is the responsibility of the company placing the facilities to map the location of their facilities. If the city govt is keeping digital records, they should already have most of the cost built in to track where the public utilities are placed.
Second, I know it is the responsibility of the owner to locate their own facilities or contract a company to do it at their own expense. The owner(or contracted company) is also responsible for cuts due to bad locates.
Third, generally private utilities like phone,gas,electricty , and cable are put in at about 1'-5'. Water and sewer are usually placed much deeper.
I don't know if these points apply outside of Illinois, but since the story is about a city in Illinois, this should apply in this case. | |
RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Take issue with all of them. He's not really up to speed with this area.
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| reply to gao16
said by gao16 : First, I believe it is the responsibility of the company placing the facilities to map the location of their facilities. If the city govt is keeping digital records, they should already have most of the cost built in to track where the public utilities are placed. Second, I know it is the responsibility of the owner to locate their own facilities or contract a company to do it at their own expense. The owner(or contracted company) is also responsible for cuts due to bad locates. Third, generally private utilities like phone,gas,electricty , and cable are put in at about 1'-5'. Water and sewer are usually placed much deeper. I don't know if these points apply outside of Illinois, but since the story is about a city in Illinois, this should apply in this case. All of that depends completely on the state.
In Illinois:
Cities are required by law to map private infastructures in ROWs (common for midwest states). I don't know of any state actually that places the responsibility on the private company beyond supplying paper records. Even if the city has a full GIS department, the cost is pretty significant for creating the layers (if they do not have a full GIS department or have to do the mapping in CAD, the cost gets much bigger). To take an example from Geneva, they recently contracted out the electric utility GIS conversion maintenance (not mapping, but conversion), and the cost of maintenance alone was $86k. They choose to contract act because the conversion would have required 100% of staff time for a full year.
»www.geneva.il.us/minutes/PDF_min···0822.pdf
Cities are required to operate or fund the locating service, not the utilities, but can collect franchise fees from utilities to fund this (but AT&T is refusing to pay franchise fees) (might only be true of Illinois, but in other midwest states cities are liable for cuts in their ROW if the locate is bad). Geneva might not be a big enough city to be required to provide a one-call service, yet since they have multiple municipal utilities (water, sewer, garbage, electric) they probably do have their own one-call service. Also, statewide one-call bears no liability at all in Illinois.
As you said, water and sewer are placed deeper than utilities like fiber lines. That means that the city will have to get access through that part of the ROW to do water and sewer upgrades.
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gao16
join:2006-04-18
Algonquin, IL
| I will say that I am unsure of the obligations of cities in Illinois to map private infrastructure in the ROW, and the costs involved. Your example of costs incurred by the city of Geneva is flawed, however, because they own their own electric utility.
In Illinois a service named JULIE operates as a one call center for excavators to provide information to all utilities.
JULIE is a non-profit company that does not do their own locating, their costs are covered by the member utilities as are the costs to locate the facilities. JULIE covers the entire state except for the city of Chicago. You can find more detail at »www.illinois1call.com/about_us/c···file.htm. | |
BVT
join:2004-10-25
Mount Juliet, TN
| Tennessee One Call is similar. There is a centralized service that directs the member utilities & underground ROW owners to mark their property themselves.
If they miss mark or do not show up, they shoulder the costs of any damages. They also have to bear the costs of marking their ROW.
A contractor can jerk the utilities around by calling in an emergency order. Then, for whatever reason, let their excavation permit lapse & go get another. Then all utilities have to remark the ROW. | |
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