qdemn7
Smurf in My Loop
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Fort Worth, TX
| I've Changed My Mind
If the taxpayers of a city want to build their own system, then more power to them (pun intended). If the "providers" don't like it, then f*** and feed 'em fish heads. 
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“We want the Republicans out of our bedroom and the Democrats out of our wallet and both out of our First and Second Amendment rights." - Alan Nathan |
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GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA
| Well, while fiber-based Internet connectivity may not be on every consumers mind in Seattle, if the city deploys it and operates it like Project Utopia it could be a good thing for everyone, including the cable television and telephone providers.
This would remove the inherent costs of individual provider deployed transport networks and the consumers could see discounts on other services. |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
1 edit | reply to qdemn7
I agree!
I also don't understand why anyone would be against a municipality building the infrastructure and inviting ISPs to compete for services. If Quest thinks they can provide a better broadband service than Joe-ISP, then let them compete on the same fiber to the home!
It does noone good to have 10 companies all wiring up the streets (assuming 10 companies can afford it, which of course only 2 types can... cable and ILEC) and providing entries into the last mile when it can be done once AND give the consumer a choice (OMG, not a choice?!).
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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NoOneButMe
join:2001-08-24
TX | we are allready to tax'ed up here in Washington 8.9 sales tax and new gas's tax's due for july 1st but i think thay might rais tax's again for fiber there allready nailing up here |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to ieolus
said by ieolus  :I also don't understand why anyone would be against a municipality building the infrastructure and inviting ISPs to compete for services. If Quest thinks they can provide a better broadband service than Joe-ISP, then let them compete on the same fiber to the home! If the government would give up regulatory control private business would compete. How can business compete against an entity that has control over them. |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| Of course that is complete baloney Batterup. What regulatory control is there on building out a fiber network to run 'net access? The biggest obstacle to that is $$$, and tons of it. Only the current monopolies have enough to make it worth while, and only if they make sure there is no competition.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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waka
join:2002-06-01
Tacoma, WA
·Speakeasy
| reply to qdemn7
Seattle, just be like Tacoma? ;-)
As has been mentioned Seattle could learn a lesson from what the City of Tacoma has done with The Click! Network (www.click-network.com). Tacoma already has services to all of Tacoma, University Place, Fircrest, Most of the City of Lakewood and should be done with a buildout to Fife by the end of the year. THen after Fife comes unincorporated Pierce County (finally).
Standard cable (channels 2-99) is around $25-30 bucks a month. High speed internet starts out at around $25 through one of the the three ISPs that resell for the City.
Broadband pipes (DS1s, etc), metro ethernet, etc, can also be purchased.
Hmm, maybe residents of Seattle and King County should just ask Tacoma to bring service there?? It might get done quicker and cheaper  |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to ieolus
Re: I've Changed My Mind
said by ieolus :Of course that is complete baloney Batterup. What regulatory control is there on building out a fiber network to run 'net access? The government regulates what the bits and bytes can do on the fiber. NO TV unless the town approves. |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to waka
Re: Seattle, just be like Tacoma? ;-)
said by waka :As has been mentioned Seattle could learn a lesson from what the City of Tacoma has done with The Click! Network (www.click-network.com). If I wanted to set up cable TV and internet would I be able to use the click-network? Yes, when hell freezes over.
Would I be able to set up my own network without getting permission from my competition the City of Tacoma? Yes, the day after hell freezes over.
Co-ops are socialist at best, bordering on Communism. |
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waka
join:2002-06-01
Tacoma, WA
·Speakeasy
| Yeah I'm not sure where you are coming from but in the Cities that are covered by Click, you have choice. You can even have a mix of the two. You could have Comcast as your Internet provider and Click as the Cable TV Provider or vice versa. How is having a choice socialism?
I guess hell has frozen over, at least in Tacoma. |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by waka :Yeah I'm not sure where you are coming from but in the Cities that are covered by Click, you have choice. You can even have a mix of the two. You could have Comcast as your Internet provider and Click as the Cable TV Provider or vice versa. How is having a choice socialism? I guess hell has frozen over, at least in Tacoma. Does Comcast have its own cable?
Does Comcast have to get a franchise form Tacoma?
If the answer is yes to both questions you have a lack of understand of what I said. |
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waka
join:2002-06-01
Tacoma, WA
·Speakeasy
1 edit | My lack of understanding to your posts perhaps is DIRECTLY related to your inability to be clear in the point you are trying to make? For example, you reply to my first post by asking unrelated questions and spouting off something about socialism, communism and hell freezing over. Maybe you misread my posts or have a serious reading comprehension problem, but I assure you, my post had nothing to do with socialism and commies nor was it religious in any way.
But let's clarify some things: By the comments you made I'm assuming you dislike franchise agreements? Are you trying to say that franchise agreements equate to some part of communism/socialism? or is somehow undemocratic? If so, what parts of a franchise agreement make you feel this way? Do you think that just because the Click Network is city/government owned that they do not have to adhere to franchise agreements like the other privately owned competitors (Comcast in this area for CATV)? Also, what exactly is your experience in this area?
I look forward to your answers. |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by waka : Are you trying to say that franchise agreements equate to some part of communism/socialism? Do you think that just because the Click Network is city/government owned that they do not have to adhere to franchise agreements like the other privately owned competitors (Comcast in this area for CATV)? Also, what exactly is your experience in this area? It is not the franchise that is communism is is government running business. Government running business is communism look it up.
Why should a company have to go to a competitor, the government, to get permission go do business, franchise. Ether be a government and franchise or be a business and compete equally.
Is this network run by the government like roads and parks, everyone uses them for free except for taxes or is there an extra charge so only some will benefit. How much of this network is supported by government taxes? |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| reply to batterup
Re: I've Changed My Mind
I think we have a miscommunication... when I say government, I'm usually refering to the Federal Government in Washinton DC.
What the State or Municipality does it a completely different animal. So according to your above statement, you disagree then that a locality (whether city or county) has the right to regulate access to it's public spaces?
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by ieolus :I think we have a miscommunication... when I say government, I'm usually refering to the Federal Government in Washinton DC. What the State or Municipality does it a completely different animal. So according to your above statement, you disagree then that a locality (whether city or county) has the right to regulate access to it's public spaces? Only if it is in direct competition with a business. What right does a business have to regulate a competitor? |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| said by batterup :said by ieolus :I think we have a miscommunication... when I say government, I'm usually refering to the Federal Government in Washinton DC. What the State or Municipality does it a completely different animal. So according to your above statement, you disagree then that a locality (whether city or county) has the right to regulate access to it's public spaces? Only if it is in direct competition with a business. What right does a business have to regulate a competitor? That is kind of the point... it isn't a business, it is the municipality. You know, democratically elected by the people who actually live there. Again, are you saying the people who live in the town (city, locality etc.) don't have the right to choose their own service and how it is provided?
Why in the world would you think a business would have some G-d given right to do business w/o any competition, because that is what I keep reading into your words...?
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by ieolus :Why in the world would you think a business would have some G-d given right to do business w/o any competition, because that is what I keep reading into your words...? You are reading the words through dirty glasses. When the town becomes the business it is no longer just a government it is a business. A business with the power to limit competition as it is also the regulator.
It would be like giving the Cable company the power to regulate The Phone Company. |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | No, it wouldn't. The Cable company isn't elected by the people who live in the town.
What exactly do you think a municipality should do for its citizens then?
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by ieolus :No, it wouldn't. The Cable company isn't elected by the people who live in the town. What exactly do you think a municipality should do for its citizens then? The government should not do what is written in The Communist Manifesto. |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | What?!
You are demented. |
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