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Airplane777

join:2004-06-20

1 edit

CAT5e CMR/CMX mean it's uv rated ?

I got some CAT5e Indoor/Outdoor cable from Home Depot. It is CMR/CMX rated, but I don't see any uv rating on it.

Does the CMR/CMX rating mean it is uv rated ?

slipstream1
Premium
join:2005-11-15
Jacksonville, TX
I would not recommend the kind that you buy @ Home Depot or Lowes. You need the cable that has a PVC jacket for the ultimate outdoor protection.

snowsam

join:2001-04-11
Signal Mountain, TN
Agreed. For a start try contacting your local Anixter supply »www.anixter.com/ and after you have talked to a rep for a while ask for thier printed catalog (book). Compare their prices amd suggested products with those from your local Graybar »graybar.com/ . You may have a local electrical supply that has a good datacom person, but if not these two resources can be quite handy.
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jdmarti1
Jack

join:2004-06-15
Oilton, OK
reply to slipstream1
We use cable from shireeninc.com - this is the same guy who has allrfcables.com He has been awesome to deal with, and the cat5 is really good. We have been through 10 spools of the stuff, with absolutely no problems. Get some orange cleaner, and the gel is no problems to work with. The price is right too!!! Much better than some of the other cable we have bought.
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»magicwisp.com


superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
reply to slipstream1
said by slipstream1:

I would not recommend the kind that you buy @ Home Depot or Lowes. You need the cable that has a PVC jacket for the ultimate outdoor protection.
For what it's worth?, we have been using that CAT5 from Home Depot for quite a while without any problems. While it is only rated for outdoor use in short runs, we have been using it everywhere without a problem. By the time the cable starts to break down, You will be doing something else or have replaced it for something else. We have some installs that have indoor rated CAT5 running outside for over 4 years, and the cable still looks and is, in great shape working perfectly. I guess I am just saying that I personally feel some of the hype about using cable that is UV resistant and gel filled is way over rated, and to much emphasis is being placed on it?. If I have to bury anything or it is a critical tower install?, I then worry about the rating on the shell, but other than that...................
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jdmarti1
Jack

join:2004-06-15
Oilton, OK
How much is the stuff at Home Depot? I have used it once a long time ago - and had no problems with it, but I won't use it outside. The Oklahoma sunshine kills everything. Using it in PA, or some other northern states prolly won't be a big deal - but in the south, use the UV rated stuff. The nice thing about the stuff we buy, gel filled and UV rated. I can sleep better knowing that isn't a problem. It costs us about $100 per 1k feet, so the cost isn't a problem either. Just my .02
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»magicwisp.com


gmcintire
Graham
Premium
join:2005-08-09
Blue Ridge, TX
I bought some of the outdoor rated stuff from home depot about a year ago for $65/1000 ft. I ran it as a temp run along a fence line and even direct buried between two buildings. I just checked it the other day and it's still in great condition even after going through some rough Texas heat/weather.

slipstream1
Premium
join:2005-11-15
Jacksonville, TX
reply to Airplane777
I ahve had bad luck with the Home Depot or Lowes Cat5 cable in our construction stuff (runs of this in conduit for months and failing at some customers cell sites) so I stay away from it. Superdog is probably right, by the time the stuff breaks down we will all be doing something else anyway. I just choose to err on the cautious side and use the same cable on the towers that I use on the customer installs, Superior Essex 4x24 C5ECMX Gray. It has worked for me for over a year now.

Airplane777

join:2004-06-20

1 edit
Hi slipstream1:

Does the following link show the cable you are using?

»www.superioressex.com/products/p···-cmx.htm

It is a residential indoor/outdoor cable. It does have uv protection.

The link says the cable is CMX rated, but doesn't define what CMX stands for.

I know CMR has something to do with cable being used in risers in homes...whatever risers are.

So maybe I want a cable that is CMX and CMR rated?

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
said by Airplane777:

...So maybe I want a cable that is CMX and CMR rated?
Great question -- we see it all the time but what does it mean. I found a PDF which shows the difference. The table on page two puts everything into perspective!

WOW -- just found a great site for everything else you may want to know about cable -- read this!

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to Airplane777
said by Airplane777:

...Does the CMR/CMX rating mean it is uv rated ?
I use two cables outdoors. One is Belden (1594A-BEL). It has the word outdoor printed on the cable. The other cable is a OSP (outside plant) Supperior-Essex shielded direct burial cable. It doesn't say much on the cable -- has the cable brand, BBDN, telco symbol and footage markings. It is not rated for interior use and has none of the UL certifications CMR, CMX etc. It is definitely manufactured for outdoor use (can be used aerial). The best way to find out the characteristics of the cable is to google the brand, cable number and find the tech sheet on the cable.

Airplane777

join:2004-06-20

3 edits
reply to jdmarti1
Hi all:

The replys on the cat 5 are very informative. Thank you all.

I paid $73.58 for 500 feet of indoor/outdoor cable at home depot. It says it is UL rated for CMR/CMX. I'm not all that sure that being rated or CMR and CMX is all that great though. I didn't know that was a UL rating. I thought CMR and CMX was some kind of EIA/TIA rating.

It also says it is Riser cable. Risers have something to do with some kind of construction in buildings, I think.

The Home Depot cable I bought doesn't say it is uv rated. Although it says indoor/outdoor...only for short outdoor runs. It also says it is riser cable.

I think riser cable has something to do with fire retardation in vertical runs. And I read that plenum cable has good fire retardation in horizontal runs.

And I spoke to a salesperson today that said if I did use outdoor rated cable, that fire codes would only let me run it up to 50 feet indoors, since evidentally outdoor cable isn't all that fire retardant? That was news to me. Gee this CAT cable stuf has a lot of scenerios.

I was hoping to order more cat 5e cable today. It isn't all that easy...lol. Too much to pick from.


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
said by Airplane777:

I think riser cable has something to do with fire retardation in vertical runs. And I read that plenum cable has good fire retardation in horizontal runs.
The issue is vertical flame spread. Riser cables are tested and rated for low vertical flame spread.

It is virtually impossible to go wrong with plenum rated cables since that is the most stringent requirement. The down side is cost...since plenum cables are substantially more expensive than than others, typically.

The reality is that you will end up stocking several types of cable...to accommodate each circumstance. My personal preference, however, is to use plenum rated cables, since the overhead required in managing the inventory for other cables negates the cost savings in providing several cable types.

If you carried *every little thing* for every circumstance...well, you would have a double semi-truck trailer to tote all of your *stuff*.



Sometimes "cost" is the least of the considerations that you are faced with....!


--
A is A

Stealthwave

join:2005-07-03
Alvin, TX
I use 3 different cat5e cables.
General installs Belden 1594A
Direct burial I get from Defacto Wreless with icky tack
Tower runs I get from Defacto Wireless shielded with icky tack.

I don't have any problems

slipstream1
Premium
join:2005-11-15
Jacksonville, TX
reply to Airplane777
That is the cable that I use. I also use a commscope shielded outdoor cable with a drain wire that I bought from electrocom for the big tower.

Stealthwave

join:2005-07-03
Alvin, TX
The shielded Cat5e from Defacto also has a drain wire.

jdmarti1
Jack

join:2004-06-15
Oilton, OK
The gel filled cable we use from shireen is also shielded and has a drain. We use it for all installs - tower, customers, everything. We use some inexpensive blue stuff for PoE to router.
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»magicwisp.com

Airplane777

join:2004-06-20

1 edit
Hi jdmarti1:

I called a mfg and from talking to them, they said their outdoor rated cable wasn't suitable for indoors...well it was up to 50 feet indoors. Then after that, the indoor cable has to be rated for indoor use. If I remember correctly, I think that was Superior Essex.

However, I would think, if plenum cable wasn't needed indoors, I don't see why regular outdoor rated cable wouldn't be good enough indoors. However, there is something about the CMR cable needing to be used indoors. It has some kind of flame rating, but it just isn't plenum rated. I have to do more reading in that area.


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
said by Airplane777:

However, I would think, if plenum cable wasn't needed indoors, I don't see why regular outdoor rated cable wouldn't be good enough indoors. However, there is something about the CMR cable needing to be used indoors. It has some kind of flame rating, but it just isn't plenum rated. I have to do more reading in that area.
It is all about "flame spread" and "products of combustion"...

Plenum rated cables are rated for use in air-handling spaces. They typically have PTFE (Teflon) jackets and have very low FS and POC values. In addition, the electrical characteristics are usually superior to other cables.

Another point in passing...all of these cables behave differently (from one type and manufacturer to another) in regards to low-temperature handling characteristics. If you are in an area that experiences low temps and you have to install during those times, you may have "difficulties"...primarily jacket fracture.

Something else to worry about...!

Very generally speaking, "name-brand" cables will perform better over a wider variety of circumstances than "no-name" cable.


--
A is A

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to Airplane777
said by Airplane777:

...However, I would think, if plenum cable wasn't needed indoors, I don't see why regular outdoor rated cable wouldn't be good enough indoors. However, there is something about the CMR cable needing to be used indoors. It has some kind of flame rating, but it just isn't plenum rated. I have to do more reading in that area.
Please read the links I posted. The ratings you posted are UL ratings. You need to use UL listed cable for most code purposes (outdoor cables such as the Superior-Essex OSP cable I referred to earlier are not Underwriters Laboratories rated as they terminate at the demarc and therefore have no need for UL approval). UL does not "rate" cables for outdoor as far as I know.

There is really no need to extend your outdoor cable indoors as you should have a surge suppressor at or the close to the point of entry so as long as your indoor cable is properly rated and your outdoor cable ends at your demarc (lightning surge suppressor) everything should be fine.

Having said that, I have to wonder if a CMR-CMX rated cable which has outdoor printed on it can be run for more that 50 feet indoors?

Airplane777

join:2004-06-20
I think the 50 feet she mentioned had something to do with some kind of legal issue of using it indoors. Probably a flame rating.

So it seems like we have to worry about ratings from a couple different organizations for the cables.


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to robbin
said by robbin:

There is really no need to extend your outdoor cable indoors as you should have a surge suppressor at or the close to the point of entry so as long as your indoor cable is properly rated and your outdoor cable ends at your demarc (lightning surge suppressor) everything should be fine.

There you have it...!


--
A is A

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

2 edits
Actually, I really like the Belden 1594A cable and normally use it indoors although I try to design my installations so I don't have long interior runs. I do wonder exactly what code is on this. Here is my reasoning -- it doesn't make sense to rate outdoor cable CMR; which is tested to be in compliance with UL-1666 "This is a fire test for determining values of flame propagation height for electrical and optical-fiber cables that are for installation vertically in shafts or in vertical runs that penetrate more than one floor." Why rate the cable for risers if it can only be used for 50 feet indoors. It makes much more sense to me that an outdoor cable (such as Superior-Essex BBDN) can be used up to 50 feet indoors even though it is not rated for indoor use.

I have been using the Superior Essex cable to the surge suppressor and then the Belden 1594A inside the house but I worry about the 50 foot limit. Perhaps there is nothing to be worried about as it is rated CMR-CMX which should allow for unlimited indoor usage? This actually goes with what you said earlier John -- it's nice not to have to carry around too many different cable types. I keep a little plenum cable around but rarely need it. I have never seen an outdoor rated plenum cable.

[edit for spelling]

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to Airplane777
said by Airplane777:

...So it seems like we have to worry about ratings from a couple different organizations for the cables.
I believe all of this revolves around the NEC. Code requires UL approved materials and the different ratings simply specify the usages allowed for a given cable. Code also requires that the surge suppressor be rated for it's intended purpose (once again it should have a UL rating).

cmaenginsb1
Premium
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
reply to Airplane777
As Robbin stated the only rating you have "worry" about is the UL ratings. If you use the wrong kind of cable you can be made to remove it and risk being fined as most of the NEC revolves around UL tested and listed products. Of course most areas use the NEC in their building codes. Some areas like the city of Los Angeles actually have requirements that exceed NEC.

As to outdoor cable, most outdoor cable is called that because it will not deteriorate in UV. My understanding is that since Plenum is not made from PVC it will not deteriorate in UV so you might not see "outdoor" plenum cabling.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber