KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| reply to markopoleo
Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op.
Hey, redeem yourself...contact every single one of those folks and post back completely true and unbiased results.
We are waiting...
said by markopoleo  :I bet if you did a survey not a single one needed a HAM other than to "chit chat". Or if they did use it for something it could of been done easier with a cell phone. |
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KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
1 edit | reply to markopoleo
Re: lame
You are a troll by history...
quick to post a factually void and baseless comment only to never return to give proof of your claims or to refute the intelligent responses of others.
Not all of us exist in a vacuum.
Rob
said by markopoleo :How is that trolling? Its just stating what everyone is thinking. Trolling would be me saying "HAMS suck, wish they would all disappear". I know HAMs are use full, but not in USA anymore (minus Alaska and Hawaii perhaps). |
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p51d007
Naa-P51d Mustang
join:2002-06-07
Springfield, MO | reply to markopoleo
Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op.
I pray you never have a natural disaster that takes down your phone lines, electric grid & cell phones, because that Amateur radio operator may be the only communications you have.
73's
kb0gnk |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| reply to PDXPLT
said by PDXPLT :said by rf_engineer :BPL has no wireless spectrum to stay in - it's a wired network therefore it has no frequency allocations....just like cable and DSL which deliver broadband just fine without wrecking spectrum. Well, that's close but not quite true. Licensed services in a portion of spectrum have primary allocations or secondary allocations, but they are rarely exclusive (some of the radio astronomy bands probably being the only ones). Licensed-exempt users under Part 15 are the bottom of the totem pole, but they are explicitly permitted under Part 15 to radiate RF power in certain bands as an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator. This can even lead to some degree of interference, so long as such interference does not lead to the level of "harmful" (that's why those electric drills can remain on the market), and in addition, the license-exempt user must accept harmful interference from any source. What you're saying is true, but it doesn't have any bearing on my original statement. BPL has no wireless frequency allocations. Maybe this is just a discussion of semantics, but being allowed to intentionally or unintentionally emit radiation does not constitute a frequency allocation. Most people would consider a primary or secondary frequency allocation, a frequency allocation....as the name would suggest. The context of my response was to a poster that implied ham radio and BPL should stay on their own frequencies. BPL has no such frequencies.
I know ARRL lawyers disagree with this portion of the law, and argue in nearly all of their filings with the FCC that the Commission has no authority to authorize Part 15 operation in the first place. But they've been trying for over 25 years to win that point, and haven't done so yet (I suppose that's why the position the ARRL takes in press releases to the public and their membership is a much more reasonable one than this official position they take in the FCC filings. Or maybe they have no idea what their lawyers are doing). You or someone claimed this here before and I asked for some quote or something to support this, but I haven't seen anything. The ARRL has questioned the FCC's ability to allow BPL under Part 15 as the rules were clearly never written with broadband large geographical emitters in mind, but never their authority to authorize Part 15 devices. That would be just plain stupid, since every piece of electronics gear in the US and even ham radio equipment is allowed to exist under Part 15. The ARRL's public and FCC filing positions are the same -- in every news article they link to PDFs of their filings, and it's available via the FCC ECFS to the general public, so I'm not sure how they could pull off such a ruse as you would suggest. It's foolhardy to think ARRL management would spend money on lawyers not representing core ARRL positions on issues when there's thousands of dues-paying members that read all their filings. Again, please quote something from an ARRL filing that supports your statement, otherwise I call you-know-what 
BTW, UTP telephone wring is not perfectly balanced, and radiates some as well. With the rollout of VDSL expecially, there was concern about harmful interference in the HF band. Unlike much of the BPL community, however, the DSL community took up the issue head-on, and did technical analyses and field measurements that ulimately resulted in the ham bands being notched out of the VDSL spectrum. Leaky coax cable systems are also frequently an issue. Agreed, but UTP wiring and even leaky cable systems are much better off with regards to radiation that BPL can ever be.
Bottom line is that it's too bad that these idiot BPL operators in Virginia decided to try to use PR rather than engineering to deal with the issue, and ended up giving all BPL a bad name. It's too bad that the BPL technology supplier used for most of the BPL trials in the U.S. also didn't care about interference. But if you look at Cincinnati, where Current Technologies has been operating for quite some time, hams are OK, airplanes aren't falling out of the sky, and emergency communications services work just fine. So apparently there is a technical solution to these issues, if the willingness to implement it is there, along with the required engineering expertice.
I agree this can be made to work, although it's somewhat of a false solution. Someone's spectrum is getting trashed when a BPL system is in operation. Notching just moves it away from the squeaky wheel. Manassas isn't the first system to give BPL a bad name, though it's the most recent. |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
 ·Qwest.net
1 edit | reply to GhostFreeman
Re: Somebody in high places got pissed.
said by GhostFreeman :Dig deep and i'm sure AT&T is involved, like that other market they managed to get shut down. That was just one of the things I was thinking about. except for the fact none of the big providers thing BPL is in anyway a viable threat to their business.
--
The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind. |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
2 edits | reply to GhostFreeman
said by GhostFreeman :Dig deep and i'm sure AT&T is involved, like that other market they managed to get shut down. Why would AT&T even care? This is residential Internet service. AT&T actually played around with BPL two or three years ago in California and pulled out due to business reasons.
Edit: AT&T also funded the Penn State BPL study from two years ago. This was the study that determined BPL could do 1 Gbps under "ideal" conditions. |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to rf_engineer
Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op.
said by rf_engineer :BPL has no wireless spectrum to stay in - it's a wired network therefore it has no frequency allocations....just like cable and DSL which deliver broadband just fine without wrecking spectrum. Well, that's close but not quite true. Licensed services in a portion of spectrum have primary allocations or secondary allocations, but they are rarely exclusive (some of the radio astronomy bands probably being the only ones). Licensed-exempt users under Part 15 are the bottom of the totem pole, but they are explicitly permitted under Part 15 to radiate RF power in certain bands as an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator. This can even lead to some degree of interference, so long as such interference does not lead to the level of "harmful" (that's why those electric drills can remain on the market), and in addition, the license-exempt user must accept harmful interference from any source.
I know ARRL lawyers disagree with this portion of the law, and argue in nearly all of their filings with the FCC that the Commission has no authority to authorize Part 15 operation in the first place. But they've been trying for over 25 years to win that point, and haven't done so yet (I suppose that's why the position the ARRL takes in press releases to the public and their membership is a much more reasonable one than this official position they take in the FCC filings. Or maybe they have no idea what their lawyers are doing).
BTW, UTP telephone wring is not perfectly balanced, and radiates some as well. With the rollout of VDSL expecially, there was concern about harmful interference in the HF band. Unlike much of the BPL community, however, the DSL community took up the issue head-on, and did technical analyses and field measurements that ulimately resulted in the ham bands being notched out of the VDSL spectrum. Leaky coax cable systems are also frequently an issue.
Bottom line is that it's too bad that these idiot BPL operators in Virginia decided to try to use PR rather than engineering to deal with the issue, and ended up giving all BPL a bad name. It's too bad that the BPL technology supplier used for most of the BPL trials in the U.S. also didn't care about interference. But if you look at Cincinnati, where Current Technologies has been operating for quite some time, hams are OK, airplanes aren't falling out of the sky, and emergency communications services work just fine. So apparently there is a technical solution to these issues, if the willingness to implement it is there, along with the required engineering expertice. |
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GhostFreeman
join:2004-06-04
Rising Fawn, GA | reply to Transmaster
Re: Somebody in high places got pissed.
Dig deep and i'm sure AT&T is involved, like that other market they managed to get shut down. |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | reply to Obliteration
Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op.
Don't do that in Pennsylvania, you may be the one who gets the ticket... |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to Transmaster
Re: Somebody in high places got pissed.
Overwhelming complaints from everyone operating below 50 MHz, I'd bet. The process takes a long time sometimes.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | reply to rf_engineer
What I am wondering is what behind the scenes thing happened to make the FCC finally move to at last enforce the rules on this issue.
--
The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to Obliteration
Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op.
Give me your plate number, because I'd love to slam you against the barrier on the Dan Ryan. What an idiotic post.
What are you, 15?
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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91439306
15,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT
| reply to Obliteration
This doesn't work in CT. The speed limit is 40 on rt 66 in Middlefield. Because it's a double lane highway, people ususally do 60 on that road. The police just tag the cars that match 'the color of the day'. Each day, they start out and pick a new random color. If silver is the color of the day, and you're driving a silver Nissan, you're it, if you're following traffic that's traveling over the limit.
Just because 99% of the drivers on the road at the time are violating the law doesn't make it okay to do so.
--
Take care,
Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
My Kurzweil Music at: '»www.dv-clips.com/theater.htm
'»www.basspig.com Bass Pig's Lair
'»www.mwcomms.com
'»www.adventuresinanimemusic.com Stereo Feed! |
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91439306
15,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT
| reply to markopoleo
said by markopoleo :I bet if you did a survey not a single one needed a HAM other than to "chit chat". Or if they did use it for something it could of been done easier with a cell phone. Cellular calls are private, point to point communications. HAM radio has the advantage that anyone can listen, and any licensed HAM can 'drop in' and participate in the discussion. It's a great way to meet people and make new friends. Think of it as a verbal form of internet forum.
--
Take care,
Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
My Kurzweil Music at: '»www.dv-clips.com/theater.htm
'»www.basspig.com Bass Pig's Lair
'»www.mwcomms.com
'»www.adventuresinanimemusic.com Stereo Feed! |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| reply to MysticGogeta
said by MysticGogeta :They might call a EPA the ham operators are an endangered species  (I assume you are being sarcastic to the "head in the sand" people, but....)
Not really. My 13 year old just got her license. And in the same test session three other kids ranging from 13 to 15 did the same. Out of 24 taking the test, 19 passed and now have licenses to operate as 'hams'.
Of course there were about five or six others who decided NOT to take the test once they learned it was not like CB and there were enforced legal ramifications for incorrect usage.
Isn't it amazing that every time someone mentions BPL, how the same people say 'who needs hams' and bring out the same physics challenged, geographically challenged, and blind views? Thus sidetracking the original thread ...ummm... about 75% of the postings at least? Must be nice to live in a cocoon where nothing goes wrong and the only reality is a computer.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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The Folsom
Kindly Shut Your Noise Hole.
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Yucaipa, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to markopoleo
said by markopoleo :Honestly, how many HAM ops can there be in Manassas, Virginia that can get the FCC to shut down a whole ISP.. Lets hope common sense hits the FCC in the head, maybe even send the ham ops takedown orders instead. lol Clearly, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about... You really should go to your clue locker and pick one. What do YOU care what happens in Manassas? You don't even live there. You just want to sow hate and discontent because you either hate hams or you have nothing of any real substance to contribute. As long as this issue has been in play on this site, you have done nothing but slam hams. Give it a rest already.
--
Who is "Roger?", and why is everybody saying his name on the radio? |
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jeffhambone
Peace, through superior firepower
join:2002-02-02
Manassas, VA
 ·Comcast
| reply to markopoleo
In light of the continuing arguments over BPL vs. ham radio, I propose a new Q signal for us hams to use where appropriate: QPK
As with other Q signals, QPK has a question form and and a corresponding answer form:
QPK? -- Shall I plonk you (or poster's name)?
QPK -- I have plonked you (or poster's name).
Other BPL-related Q signals may become necessary, depending on the nature of the discussion.
--
Son, there's only one thing you need to know: HEMI |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to RayW
said by RayW :said by K9ERG :
Imagine you are in a life boat in the middle of the North Atlantic and you have a 25 Watt HF radio with which you should be able to communicate with shore stations.
Ah....everyone knows you would just pull out your cell phone and since no one else is around to interfere you can reach all the way to the next cell tower. Besides, modern vessels do not sink. *innocent look* NO NO NO!!!!! You need to whip out you extremely expensive sat phone and pay a few dollars a minute to get help. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to markopoleo
Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op.
said by markopoleo :I bet if you did a survey not a single one needed a HAM other than to "chit chat". Or if they did use it for something it could of been done easier with a cell phone. Survey says, "You have no clue what you are talking about."
Ask the people about cell phones during Katrina.  |
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