ARGONAUT
got ping?
join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN | reply to markopoleo
Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op.
The HAMs use public air waves and a privet company is disrupting public waves... |
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K9ERG
@zblibrary.org
|  reply to markopoleo
It is not a problem confined to the immediate Manassas VA area. The problem is GLOBAL.
Imagine you are in a life boat in the middle of the North Atlantic and you have a 25 Watt HF radio with which you should be able to communicate with shore stations. Assume that conditions are such that the only shore stations that would hear you are in Manassas VA. The ~6.25 micro-volt signal you would produce into the receiver in Manassas would be wiped out by the 500 micro-volts of garbage radiated 24/7 by the ComTek BPL system. |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
3 edits | reply to rf_engineer
As a cable system maintenance tech, one of my duties is to fight ingress into the system... along with fixing egress (leak) sources.
Its a full time job.
The system isn't perfectly shielded. So some stuff ALWAYS gets in and its much harder to find those then the RF unintentionally leaking out.
FCC requires cable companies to search for, log, and fix any leaks (egress). Ingress isn't controlled by the FCC and most cable companies only look for it when it becomes an issue. So there are lots of minor ingress sources that never get fixed.
Usually its from point sources like breaks in the cable, bad equipment connected to the system (aka cheap TVs, VCRs, TV tuner cards, etc...), or radio transmitters overwhelming the shielding in some locations.
Imagine what would happen with a RF source a few feet away from the cable across the most of the cable distribution system... EVERY weak spot will become an ingress source. It'd be ingress WAY beyond the random stuff affecting most cable systems now...
...right in the frequency range used by ALL upstream communications on a cable system.
Cable modems, VOD, interactive cable services of all types would be affected.
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For official Adelphia support, contact Adelphia. I'm just here for advice... |
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GadgetsRme
R.I.P. dadkins
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO
1 edit | reply to Obliteration
said by Obliteration  :said by N4QX :
When I prosecuted traffic tickets, we loved uping the charges against clowns who used this logic to Reckless Driving. We took a lot of folks who needed to be off the road off the road that way.When I prosecuted traffic tickets, we loved uping the charges against clowns who used this logic to Reckless Driving. We took a lot of folks who needed to be off the road off the road that way.
COMTek needs to be off the road.
COMTek needs to be off the road.When I prosecuted traffic tickets, we loved uping the charges against clowns who used this logic to Reckless Driving. We took a lot of folks who needed to be off the road off the road that way.
COMTek needs to be off the road.
Ummm.... what damn driving school did you attend? My book states what mark stated before. If traffic is going on a road at 45mph and the speed limit is 35mph you are SUPPOSE to speed up to match flow of traffic. Since the traffic will be constantly try to pass you, you will likely end up causing an accident due to the fact that you are disrupting flow of traffic. When I prosecuted traffic tickets, we loved uping the charges against clowns who used this logic to Reckless Driving. We took a lot of folks who needed to be off the road off the road that way. COMTek needs to be off the road. This was stated by my driving teacher, a POLICE CHIEF who visited during my driving class, and the damn driving rule book. Besides repairing computers I'm a driving instructor, trained and supervised by a nationally certified driving instructor. I had to take 35 hours of classroom instruction and pass with a 92. Ater that I drove 48 hrs with the senior instructor before he would turn me loose by myself with students. I further took the class and received certification by the Compliance Section, Division of Motor Vehicle, State of Colorado to administer the Colo. State Basic Skills Operator Test. That all said, mike52, I call "Bullshit".
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Gadgets |
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Rogers1
join:2004-10-14
Canada | reply to rf_engineer
I prefer the Term Geek |
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kws7114
join:2002-05-01
Newton, KS
 ·AT&T Southwest
·Pacific Bell - SBC
1 edit | reply to markopoleo
From a brief online search, there appears to be well over 150 hams in Manassas. It isn't how many complain, but how long a company can ignore the regulations to cooperate by not interfering with hams. The FCC finally saw that ComTek was stonewalling the obvious and now has less than 20 days to fix it or have thew FCC shut them down. How embarrassing for a local power company and anyone supporting BPL adaptation.
And fortunately - hams will help no matter how much we get heckled about our hobby. Don't knock it til you've at least talked to a ham and let them show you the hobby and potential for service. 
June 20 is Kids Day. Local hams have their station(s) available to kids to talk to other kids for a day.
What other form of communications allows entire schools to participate in talking to the crews on the International Space Station, giving kids a real feel for what space is like. Its time for kids to dream and follow their dreams. |
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Slidetbone
Mazin Go
Premium
join:2002-11-10
Land O Lakes, FL
| reply to markopoleo
Chit-chat? Get real!
You may not know it, but HAM operators are all over the USA, Canada...worldwide!
When the NY blackout happened, it was amateur radio that took over. When Katrina hit Louisiana and Mississippi, HAM radio was in full force.
Reliability of a HAM radio depends on the rig, the antenna and/or access to repeaters. In all cases, these rigs put out more wattage than the 0.6 watt cellphone. And when the power is out, no celltower, no cell coverage. Go to a remote site and see what gets used in normal and emergency communications.
HAM will never die! Just hope you do not need to depend on a HAM operator in your lifetime. |
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grcore
New and Improved
join:2003-12-06
usa
| reply to markopoleo
Re: lame
said by markopoleo :Trolling would be me saying "HAMS suck, wish they would all disappear". I know HAMs are use full, but not in USA anymore (minus Alaska and Hawaii perhaps). Is that the best you can do? Or is your writer on strike?
Give it one more try, and put some thought into it this time.. |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Optimum Online
| reply to markopoleo
Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op.
You fail to realize that radio is a HOBBY for these people. It is not a "cell phone." Far from it.... Show me a cell phone that can talk from New York to Sydney Australia, or to the middle of China or Siberia for FREE and I'll give you a cookie.
There is a lot more to ham radio than you think. The majority of the hobby today is high tech and no longer "AM radio."
Earth-Moon-Earth, Packet Radio (the ORIGINAL technology digital cell phone is based on) etc... If it wasn't for hams, those "cell phones" wouldn't be as small as they are today. A lot of experimentation and SUPPORT in times of need when everything else is down comes from hams. Ask any first responder, or the department of homeland security, FEMA, etc and they will tell you. Ham Radio ARES (Amateur Radio Emergency Services and RACES Radio Amateur Civil Emergency Service are connected directly to municipal/state/federal agencies. Ever hear of MARS? Military Amateur Radio Service? Amateur Radio operators are given permission to operate on Military frequencies and participate in drills and help the military when asked upon.
I myself participate in 4 daily "traffic" nets for emergency preparedness across New York and New Jersey and a weekly Skywarn net for severe weather preparedation. I spend countless hours "helping" my community. Maybe you don't see it with your eyes, but when I am needed, I'll be ready. Just like you don't respect the Emergency Squad who will save your life if you had a heart attack until you actually need them.
Take care,
A Computer and Radio Geek,
-Tzale |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
 ·VOIPo
| reply to David95037
said by David95037 :said by zod5000 :If there were a big disaster, one would think the power would get knocked out, and the interference would stop, but Q: If the power goes out in an area, BPL interference will go out as well, so Hams could then provide emergency services, so what is the problem? A: Amateurs need to maintain equipment and practice needed skills before a disaster occurs. If the equipment is unusable during regular times, what is the motivation even to buy equipment? Another thing to consider is that emergency stations need to be able to communicate out to areas that do have power. From the BPL FAQ; » www.qrpis.org/~k3ng/bpl.html#21 And to add to that, suppose there is an emergency somewhere other than Manasas, but it is the Amateur Radio people in Manassas that they need to communicate with. Then there wuld be issues.
These people that cannot see the entire picture need to go educate themselves before before posting garbage.
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FWD#: 223611 |
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smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home
| said by ropeguru :And to add to that, suppose there is an emergency somewhere other than Manasas, but it is the Amateur Radio people in Manassas that they need to communicate with. Then there wuld be issues. The amateur radio operators in Manassas will certainly be able to save them!
Super Manassas Amateur Radio operators to the rescue!  |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| reply to K9ERG
said by K9ERG :
Imagine you are in a life boat in the middle of the North Atlantic and you have a 25 Watt HF radio with which you should be able to communicate with shore stations.
Ah....everyone knows you would just pull out your cell phone and since no one else is around to interfere you can reach all the way to the next cell tower. Besides, modern vessels do not sink. *innocent look*
DISCLAIMER: I am a licensed radio operator, an emergency communications specialist for my (neighborhood, parish, ward, district, or whatever name you use), member of the Ogden Sheriffs Commo Team and the Davis Emergency Communications Team, and in the past four years a witness to several activations of Ham radio both in the BPL band and outside of it when all other communications failed or were not usable. Yeah, I am prejudiced towards the value of radio over BPL, radio is used more often than many people realize.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs: | reply to markopoleo
They might call a EPA the ham operators are an endangered species |
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caddyroger
Premium
join:2001-06-11
clubs: | reply to markopoleo
You do not speed to keep up with the other cars. Just take this if you are going 85 in a 70 mph zone and you cause an accident who going to get the ticket. who could be sued. Not the other drivers you will be. It still against the law |
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phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to markopoleo
said by markopoleo :Honestly, how many HAM ops can there be in Manassas, Virginia that can get the FCC to shut down a whole ISP.. Lets hope common sense hits the FCC in the head, maybe even send the ham ops takedown orders instead. lol Obviously more than you estimated. Either that, or an FCC ham operator got tired of the noise floor due to this poor attempt of the power company trying to offer broadband. Either way, the evidence is there, the interference exists, and despite what argument or flamer posts in this forum, the public, including the FCC agree, the power company is in violation of the intended agreement with the FCC. Hams were here first, regardless of what you think of them. They are the ones who invested in sensitive radio equipment so they could communicate long distances, not a major company. They deserve a voice, and the respect of compliance, since they would be under fire if they did not comply with their FCC/Ham licenses. I think this is fair, and it's about time a half assed operation got shut down for causing drama in a spectrum that does not cause harm back. The BPL provider should fix the issue, and re-deploy the right equipment. With that said, tell me whats so wrong with that idea. Forget the fact that you think ham is outdated, keep in mind the fact that this technology was not designed to use the frequency its negatively affecting, and so therefore it's flawed. Since ham came first, the BPL operator is knowingly violating the law by causing interference on Ham spectrum. It's like me parking my car in your driveway, out of your vehicles way. It would still piss you off I was parked there, because it's your driveway, not mine, and I have no right to invade your space if I don't have your permission. The reality of it all is it boils down to ethics. The power company is just trying to make a buck off the misery of others. Ham equipment is definately nowhere near cheap, so I'd be pissed too.
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SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. |
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driscollw80
join:2005-08-15
Virginia Beach, VA | reply to smcallah
Bottom line, stay in your spectum. What would happen if Ham screwed up BPL ? |
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enkid
join:2006-02-12
East Providence, RI
| reply to K9ERG
K9ERG is right - the problem is global. Perhaps a more realistic lifeboat example would be if the radio propagation from the Manassas area to your lifeboat is really good; the interference would make it more difficult for you to communicate with anyone, anywhere, from the lifeboat. Now add a few more BPL systems in other cities - they'd pretty much blanket the entire planet with radio noise, making it more difficult for anyone to communicate via HF radio. |
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pvale
Lurk, Lurk, Lurk,They Call Me The Lurker
join:2000-03-29
Washington, MO
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to markopoleo
Re: lame
It doesn't matter, even if we were tiddly-wink flippers. We are LICENSED users of the spectrum, and as such, the unlicensed services need to protect the licensed user from interference. And we were here first. And all of your BPL systems are UNLICENSED Part 15 devices. To those who say ham radio is irrelevant, we have totally separate infrastructure that will let me send a message across the country on my own power to a similarly equipped ham. Homeland Security takes us seriously, including funding training for those who want to take it to be trained to government communicator standards. If my home station, which has 3 days of backup power, becomes untenable, I can have my equipment in the field, hooked up and operating inside of an hour. We take public service seriously.
Cheers
Perry Vale Extra-class Amateur Radio Operator N0MXJ |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| reply to driscollw80
Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op.
said by driscollw80 :Bottom line, stay in your spectum. What would happen if Ham screwed up BPL ? Ironically, nothing. BPL is a FCC Part 15 device that has to accept any interference from any source. This would include CBs or someone's power drill pushing noise spikes back down the power line. BPL has no wireless spectrum to stay in - it's a wired network therefore it has no frequency allocations....just like cable and DSL which deliver broadband just fine without wrecking spectrum. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to grcore
Re: lame
said by grcore :said by markopoleo :Trolling would be me saying "HAMS suck, wish they would all disappear". I know HAMs are use full, but not in USA anymore (minus Alaska and Hawaii perhaps). Is that the best you can do? Or is your writer on strike? Give it one more try, and put some thought into it this time.. You are asking too much of him.
First rule of trolling is to have at least a valid argument to enrage someone with.  Ask him about how Europe uses DC power instead of AC like here in the US. |
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