pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
1 edit | reply to tsu9
Re: Bad Idea in So Many Ways
said by tsu9  :Given that most areas have few choices for this sort of thing, when the privately held companies screw up, the citizens feel it as well. People who choose to live in areas where broadband is sparse and the complain about the lack of broadband have other issues. If its that important to someone, then they should move to where the broadband is.
said by tsu9 :Incidentally, I was more referring to the state of the network, rather than the state of one's wallet. Well, let's take a look at how well most governments run the following:
•Public Schools - Why is it that we spend more and more and more on K12 education, more than any other civilization on earth and many rural and urban school systems still don't make the grade?
•Amtrak - Why does Congress think that maintaining a railroad which runs out to places where few people live will run at a profit?
•Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid - These programs are rife with so much waste and fraud already... Do you really think with the way the government spends money that you will ever see these benefits when you retire?
•Border Security - Yeah, right!
•Roads - We have a major highway network that is in need of upgrades and the bill we get out of Congress builds a bridge to nowhere in Alaska? WTF?
•Disaster Relief - FEMA, anyone?
With this in mind, I wouldn't even trust these guys with a wire crimper and a CAT-5e cable, much less running the Internet.
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Tancredo 2008! |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Like I said, neither choice is particularly savory. The current state is vastly preferrable to either getting their grubby little mitts on it. |
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BloodRoses
Gods lend wings to tainted hearts
Premium
join:2003-03-17
clubs:
·Cox HSI
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :If its that important to someone, then they should move to where the broadband is. Exactly! Charter sucks, so I moved! Hi neighbor. 
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Cheers,
Stephanie - www.GlitterFaerie.com |
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quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI
| reply to pnh102
As it stands for me, I don't live out in the boon-docs. In face, I live in a fairly large city, this state's capitol if you will. When I moved in, I was told broadband was an option -- but what they didn't say was that broadband over 1MB was not available (nor does it seem that it ever will be). Comcast isn't out on my block (a big surprise too), so I must rely on the aging lead and copper wires in the air for my broadband.
As far as Amtrak -- Amtrak wouldn't serve anybody except for the biggest cities, if they weren't forced to. How would those without a car get from point a to point b? Greyhound would be a similar scenario.
Roads -- Thank the politicians for the way bills get voted on. |
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scrummie02
Bentley
Premium
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
| reply to pnh102
what is ironic is the same people tat are screaming for the government to get involved in regulating the internet or take control of it are the same folks that scream when the very same government wants to wire-tap to catch terrorist thugs. If they seize control or create regulations they will have even more power to do as they wish and breach our "1st and 4th amendment rights".
I'd prefer the government stay out of this all together. |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | There is a difference between ham-fisting and making sure the boys in the sandlot play nice. |
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scrummie02
Bentley
Premium
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
| not really. If they mandate how the internet will be run or seize control...it wouldn't just stop there.
I don't trust the politicians more than I trust a used car salesman.
I don't trust the telco's motives either...but at least they can be punished. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| said by scrummie02 :not really. If they mandate how the internet will be run or seize control...it wouldn't just stop there. I don't trust the politicians more than I trust a used car salesman. I don't trust the telco's motives either...but at least they can be punished. I think that many of the other DSLR readers should review what you posted, then review it again for clarity. Everyday people on this site (no need to name names  ) whine and complain about "big brother", our "oppressive police state", and how the government is invading all aspects of our lives. Shockingly (or maybe not), these SAME people are the ones who all are in support of that same government, taking control of the nations telecommunications network! So lets see if I got this right, you hate the government so much that you want them to seize private assets and take control of the countries communications infrastructure? Hmmmmmm, sounds like some people are a bit schizophrenic and delusional. You can have it both ways, take a side and stick with it for everyone else's sake.
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сумасшедшая обезьяна! |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL
1 edit | reply to scrummie02
I agree that the Government is not to be trusted fully. However, the best way I see this proceeding is them simply stating "hands off!" to the ISPs, regarding their desire to control the 'net.
In fact, that's probably the only way that will be stopped. After all, companies punished are done so via the government, and that's precisely the sort of slap on the wrist that is required here. |
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Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to wifi4milez
Nationalizing a public asset that can't be duplicated and is being abused for guaranteed (monopoly) profits, is far far far, different from violating the constitutional rights of all citizens using "teh terror". Take a look at some old Sen. McCarthy footage if you want to understand. Service providers and pipeline owners SHOULD be separate, it's the only way to have a free-market. All service providers would pay the same maintenance fee some of which would provide for upgrades.
The problem is the vertical integration will destroy any innovation that is beneficial for consumers. (unless cost cutting is passed through, no history of that) See the oil industry for a great example. You may also want to notice that the refining margins on a barrel of gasoline in the US is 20X that in Europe (where the cost of gas is high because of taxes). In Asia they actually LOSE money on refined product right now, so it's harder to make a comparison. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :People who choose to live in areas where broadband is sparse and the complain about the lack of broadband have other issues. If its that important to someone, then they should move to where the broadband is. That's is stupid. "Ok honey I'm quiting my good paying job moving the kids out of this good school district and away from their friends so we can get better internet."
That's ok availabilty of broadband will be as important factor in house vaulues in the coming years. Would a house in area that use well water and septic tanks worth more than those that it would than if it had access to water lines and sewage systems? Would a house that had no access to phone lines be worth as much than if it did? Would a house that didn't have access to cable be worth as much than it it did?
Local governments will not like geting less property taxes because of lower porterty values and seeing busines leave or not come in because the local ISP only wants to offer 3 Mbps servie and the next town over is getting 20 Mbps. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by BF69 :That's is stupid. "Ok honey I'm quiting my good paying job moving the kids out of this good school district and away from their friends so we can get better internet." Well if you are like most people, you have have to decide what priorities are critical and which aren't. If someone thinks broadband is more important than anything else, then they would be stupid if they chose to live in a place where they could not get it. On the other hand, most people are not like that, and the situation for rural broadband isn't as bad as it used to be either.
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Tancredo 2008! |
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Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26
1 edit | reply to pnh102
"Public Schools - Why is it that we spend more and more and more on K12 education, more than any other civilization on earth and many rural and urban school systems still don't make the grade?"
This is entirely the fault of the parents who seem to think that schools are nannys so they can run around and do what they plaese, while not allowing the nanny to impose discipline and constantly whining about everything.
"Amtrak - Why does Congress think that maintaining a railroad which runs out to places where few people live will run at a profit?"
They dont think it will run at a profit. That's not why they subsidize it. They do so because it is a way of moving freight and troops, etc in an emergency. With the nut terrorists bound to have nukes in the future, chances are the railroads will be put to good use.
"Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid - These programs are rife with so much waste and fraud already... Do you really think with the way the government spends money that you will ever see these benefits when you retire?"
Rife with so much waste? Really... There are allways a few who will take advantage (such as those who use bit torrent for warez and those who want to run servers on their residential connection) if you let them. But the number of people utilizing many of these services, like Medicaid, has been dropping for years. An example is food stamps. They have been advertising for people to sign up for food stamps because not enough (that's right) people have been using them.
And, you'll find that if you are a male, you will be ineligable for medicaid or welfare, unless you are dying or totally disabled and drooling. As far as social security, most people have been paying FICA tax all their lives and are damn well entitled to a return on their lifes investment.
"Border Security - Yeah, right!"
An issue that has boiled over and WILL be addressed, especially considering how the attitude of the mexicans that they have been here paying taxes and we damn well better give them citizenship sticks in the craws of most americans, who ask: WHAT part of the word ILLEGAL dont you understand?
"Roads - We have a major highway network that is in need of upgrades and the bill we get out of Congress builds a bridge to nowhere in Alaska? WTF?"
Well, congress pays for the US highways and Interstate maintenance. The states and localities pay for the rest, from gas taxes, Federal and state (average: about 40 cents on every gallon combined).
Actually, the interstates and US highways I've been on all over the country have been in generally very good shape and that includes the ones here in the metro that they have spent hundreds of millions on over the past 3 years.
"Disaster Relief - FEMA, anyone?"
Of course, what they fail to mention is that FEMA was made part of Homeland Security and, that when that happened, it had it's balls cut off as an agency (it used to be independent and MUCH more effective, as it's previous record attested). It had to go through more layers of management to do anything and so it's response was strangled.
If you want to blame someone, follow the money instead of blaming the patsy. If you follow the money and what happened when homeland security was formed you will find factual truth. Untill then, you really shouldn't babble untill you know what you are talking about instead of regurgitating media/party talking points. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by Fatal Vector :This is entirely the fault of the parents who seem to think that schools are nannys so they can run around and do what they plaese, while not allowing the nanny to impose discipline and constantly whining about everything. While that is true at some schools, you also have inner city systems in which teachers won't even send their own kids because they are that bad. Just about every inner city school system is a joke for the kids victims involved. Is it because all of those parents want to let their kids run around as they please? Perhaps if there was a real choice in schools, then there might be some more discipline as well.
said by Fatal Vector :They dont think it will run at a profit. That's not why they subsidize it. Entirely wrong. Amtrak was started in 1972 as Congress nationalized bankrupt passenger railroad companies. Every administration since then has made it a point to try to make it profitable since. However, since private industry couldn't do it, it is even less likely that the government will.
said by Fatal Vector :Rife with so much waste? ... But the number of people utilizing many of these services, like Medicaid, has been dropping for years. An example is food stamps. They have been advertising for people to sign up for food stamps because not enough (that's right) prople have been using them. Wrong again. The new drug benefit for Medicare and Medicaid will more than make up new spending that was offset by a lack of enrollees. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other wealth transfers make up well over 50% of federal spending, and these are increasing each year as the number of retirees increases.
said by Fatal Vector :And, you'll find that if you are a male, you will be ineligable for medicaid or welfare, unless you are dying or totally disabled and drooling. That's a given.
said by Fatal Vector :As far as social security, most people have been paying FICA tax all their lives and are damn well entitled to a return on their lifes investment. They may be entitled, but I seriously doubt that the workers of tomorrow will be willing to pay 90% or more of their income in taxes to fund these programs. The bottom line is that these programs are running out of money fast and they will be insolvent sooner than we think. However, the government refuses to impose reasonable limitations on who can get these programs.
said by Fatal Vector :An issue that has boiled over and WILL be addressed, esp-ecially considering how the attitude of the mexicans that they have been here paying taxes and we damn well better give them citizenship sticks in the craws of most americans who ask: WHAT part of the word ILLEAL dont you understand? This brings me back to my last point about how Congress' "solution" to a problem is only an even worse exacerbation of that problem. Instead of doing the correct thing and rebuke the president for not enforcing immigration law, Congress will simply grant citizenship to all illegal aliens. Nice.
said by Fatal Vector :Actually, the interstates and US highways I've been on all over the country have been in generally very good shape and that includes the ones here in the metro that they have spent hundreds of millions on over the past 3 years. While I will agree that most place have been improving road quality, we still have a severe shortage of upgrades in urban areas which need them the most. I am not talking about quality of the physical pavement, I am talking about building new highways where they are needed and widening / expanding existing ones.
said by Fatal Vector :Of course, what they fail to mention is that FEMA was made part of Homeland Security and that when that happened, it had it's balls cut off as an agency (it used to be independent and MUCH more effective, as it's previous record attested). It had to go through more layers of management to do anything and so it's response was strangled. Go take a look at FEMA's track record in the 1980s and 1990s, it has NEVER responded well to a disaster. So much so that states like Florida make up their own disaster response plans. And as you mentioned earlier about people being entitled to good government services because they paid for them, then it technically shouldn't matter which agency FEMA reports to now.
said by Fatal Vector :If you want to blame someone, follow the money instead of blaming the patsy. If you follow the money and what happened when homeland security was formed you will find factual truth. Well, you are correct in the sense that certain parts of the government deserve more blame than others, but you also make my point by illustrating that government bureaucracy is so inefficient and inept that it cannot possibly be entrusted with something as important as the Internet.
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Tancredo 2008! |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to scrummie02
said by scrummie02 :not really. If they mandate how the internet will be run or seize control...it wouldn't just stop there. I don't trust the politicians more than I trust a used car salesman. I don't trust the telco's motives either...but at least they can be punished. HEY HEY HEY, go easy on the used car salesmen..... |
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jslik
That just happened
Premium
join:2006-03-17
clubs:
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 : Amtrak was started in 1972 as Congress nationalized bankrupt passenger railroad companies. Every administration since then has made it a point to try to make it profitable since. However, since private industry couldn't do it, it is even less likely that the government will. Not to belabor this point, but a how much has government subsidized the airline/airport industry? Interstates? Amtrak's bit is chump change. |
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Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to pnh102
No matter how bad this government is.. I still trust them more than the cable co's/telco's. Especially when it comes to doing something right. Corporate America is just as much as a nightmare.
School System - Run by local governments. Some are great, some are crap. What can you do..
Amtrak - A great example of private industry dumping a public infrastructure after they've milked it for all its worth. (See our phone system 10-20 years from now.)
Medicare/Medicaid - Corporate welfare project, although it does do quite a bit of good. Right now it's acting as a trust fund for drug companies.. but that could change.
Social Security - Will go bankrupt because there are too many baby boomers. There will only be 5 paying into the system for every 1 receiving benefits. The people who run corporate America are the ones pushing the government to make sure they also receive a SS check while they spend their $100 million pensions. Payments will be FAR less than 90% of your income however. More like raised to 15%, which would still suck.
Immigration - There wouldn't be 12m illegals here if corp America didn't employ them. But yeah, we should trust them and blame the govt.
Roads - Mostly paid by state and local govt's. The National highway system is definitely a success for the fed govt.
FEMA - I've only read negative press, never really heard of them before that, so I have no input.
Personally I don't care if the government or a private company owns the pipelines, BUT the owners shouldn't be allowed to provide service. Otherwise an efficient market can't exist. AT&T/Verizon should have to choose which business they want to be in. If they want to be a service provider that cripples 3rd party content on a neutral pipeline, we'll see how long they last.
Frankly any company that demands a guaranteed profit based on assets that were (by those same past guaranteed profits) given to them, needs to be put down. Their reality has been distorted by their arrogance. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to BF69
Why should anyone give a shit about the value of a house built in the middle of nowhere? If you want electricity, water, sewer, cable TV, "broadband" via fiber, etc., then pay for it yourself. Quit expecting the rest of us to subsidize your McMansion rape of undeveloped land.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to Ahrenl
said by Ahrenl :No matter how bad this government is.. I still trust them more than the cable co's/telco's. Especially when it comes to doing something right. Corporate America is just as much as a nightmare. This government is controlled by Corporate America. As pointed out above, at least with private operators there is a means to redress bad acts. If the government is in control, you have zero recourse.
All of your government controlled examples above are "paid" by taxpayers (that's us if you forgot) who have no input as to where that money goes.
You might want to put aside your socialist sunglasses and take a look at what you posted with a clear head.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to Ahrenl
said by Ahrenl :Social Security - Will go bankrupt because there are too many baby boomers. There will only be 5 paying into the system for every 1 receiving benefits. The people who run corporate America are the ones pushing the government to make sure they also receive a SS check while they spend their $100 million pensions. Payments will be FAR less than 90% of your income however. More like raised to 15%, which would still suck. Actually right now there are only 3 workers for every 1 person getting a SS check. In the near future there will be only 2. Only way you correct this is (A) Cutting benfits. which the AARP won't let happen (B)Raise the retirment age. Once again AARP won't let that happen.(C) raise the FICA tax on workers. AARP doesn't care about younger people until they are 50. And people under 30 just don't vote. So this is the most likely thing to happen.
As you said the 7.65% in FICA taxes will most likely be 15% in 20 years. Considering that minimum wage hasn't been raised in nearly a decade and with republicans in charged not to be raised anytime soon. How are people working for $5.15 an hour going to pay 15% FICA tax and NOT have to be on some kind of welfare? |
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