N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| People need to take security more seriously
Thing is, most users don't know they're host to this garbage. Most of them aren't running firewalls, or virus software.
It's obvious that a firewall is a mandatory item in any broadband users bag of tools/toys. Broadband providers should be making firewall usage mandatory at this point. A decent router with a built in firewall is the cheapest investment in computer security a broadband user can make. |
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izy
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Naples, FL
| I'd have to disagree. ISP's cannot "force" users to run anything on their computers. The can "advise" but not "force"
It is however an ISP's responsibility to prevent network abuse on THEIR networks, such as a hosted phishing site.
What does it take a whole 5 minutes for an ISP's tech to knock a phished system off their network???
It's innevitable that a phishing site will pop-up on ANY ISP's network, it's the speediness of the ISP to respond to such reports of these sites and knock them offline ASAP. It would be interesting if justin  could create some statistics on response times per ISP when it comes to fixing these problems. The data is all there in »/phishtrack  |
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Insder
There never was a second I in my name
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Salem, MA
| Trust me, I've been getting better response times from Asian providers and european providers than from the US. A US provider, Paetec, had a phish come up and back down three times before they finally stopped letting the customer handle it, while Belgicom of Belgium took the site offline within a day and emailed me back telling me it's taken care of. It's insane how bad US support is, it's like nobody cares. Even HiNet of China sends me better responses than most US ISPs.
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The one, the only, the Insder. :: Fighting phishing for life. |
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raccettura
join:2002-09-28
USA
| reply to N3OGH
said by N3OGH :Thing is, most users don't know they're host to this garbage. Most of them aren't running firewalls, or virus software. It's obvious that a firewall is a mandatory item in any broadband users bag of tools/toys. Broadband providers should be making firewall usage mandatory at this point. A decent router with a built in firewall is the cheapest investment in computer security a broadband user can make. At this point, most know but don't care... it's cheaper and easier to not care, and every so often ask a friend to help fix it (or make a family member feel obligated).
The *only* way you'll fix this problem is if there are stiff fines for offenses... If your computer is hijacked, it will cost you $100/offense. Until then, nothing will happen, because nobody cares.
Right now there's no real consequences, hence nobody cares. |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to izy
said by izy :I'd have to disagree. ISP's cannot "force" users to run anything on their computers. The can "advise" but not "force"... Why not? It's their network, you abide by their terms. Have you read your TOS lately? My ISP Verizon has some pretty heavy handed language in it.
Example:
"Verizon may terminate the Service upon notice to you for any reason."
And the acceptable use policy specifically states:
Verizon reserves the right to deny Service to you, or immediately to terminate your Service for material breach, if your use of the Service or your use of an alias or the aliases of additional users on your account, whether explicitly or implicitly, and in the sole discretion of Verizon: (a) is obscene, indecent, pornographic, sadistic, cruel or racist in nature, or of a sexually explicit or graphic nature; (b) espouses, promotes or incites bigotry, hatred or racism; (c) might be legally actionable for any reason, (d) is objectionable for any reason, or (e) in any manner violates the terms of this Acceptable Use Policy."
So, you're going to tell me that an ISP that states in their TOS that they can terminate my service for downloading the latest "girls gone wild" video, or looking at porno pictures can't tell me I have to use a firewall?? |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
4 edits | reply to raccettura
We believe in Customer Service
AT&T's Abuse Department |
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removed
Crisis Management Squad
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-08
Houston, TX
clubs:
| said by Transmaster :At AT&T BellSouth we believe in Abuse mitigation and we staff our Abuse department 24/7. Our abuse team numbers in the thousands and our staff of trained cockroaches are waiting to help you. BellSouth is more like it. AT&T has gotten things done fairly quickly (well, much less than 40 days!) in most of our cases...
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irc.removed.us - #dslr | DSLR Phishtracker | Morning Glory Comics | Email: removed@dslr.net | Phone: 718-606-4100 |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | point taken changed it to Big Telco  |
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woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
·EarthLink
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to N3OGH
Re: People need to take security more seriously
and if they were, they don't update, nor do they run periodic scans....I try to help my friends, but their eyes glaze over after a couple of minutes.....then they say something like shouldn['t people who make viruses get in trouble, why do we have to go through this? I make quite a few "starbucks" cards this way....(in the cleaning) of their computers....they just want it taken care of and they don't want to have to do anything....but point and click....geesh..... 
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BlooMe |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Exactly.
My experience with people who are infected with crap more than once:
The first time they're scared.
The second time they're just angry.
The third time they couldn't care less as long as the computer still works.
What are you supposed to do when the users don't care? Your only options are to turn them off and then they go to a provider who doesn't care, or you babysit which takes a lot of time and the user potentially goes to another provider that doesn't complain as much.
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gau gau |
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izy
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Naples, FL
| reply to N3OGH
said by N3OGH :So, you're going to tell me that an ISP that states in their TOS that they can terminate my service for downloading the latest "girls gone wild" video, or looking at porno pictures can't tell me I have to use a firewall?? Yup, they can monitor/restrict the flow of data to and from your computer but they can not tell you what software you must have installed on your PC. Now if they forced users to run a hardware firewall that would be great, but if my ISP told me to run a software firewall I'd drop them like a bad habit. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to izy
said by izy :I'd have to disagree. ISP's cannot "force" users to run anything on their computers. The can "advise" but not "force" said by izy :It is however an ISP's responsibility to prevent network abuse on THEIR networks, such as a hosted phishing site. The above 2 statements seem to be playing both sides of the field.
If someone is affecting network performance because they have been comprimised, then the ISP is well within their rights to disconnect them until they fix their machine. Therefore, they can "force" a customer to clean their system or not be allowed back on.
The very same argument can be used to those so-called "bandwidth hogs" that others complain about when they use too much downloading whatever they want.
ISPs need to be careful that they don't siconnect just anyone and use the "comprimised system" excuse to cover up a mistake. That being said, I have seen many of the scams exposed here and they have more than enough evidence to support their claims. |
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izy
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Naples, FL
1 edit | said by moonpuppy :If someone is affecting network performance because they have been comprimised, then the ISP is well within their rights to disconnect them until they fix their machine. Therefore, they can "force" a customer to clean their system or not be allowed back on. You need to re-read my statement. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | I did. A few times actually.
A user can be forced to run anti-malware progrmas IF they have been compromised once before if they want to be allowed back on the network. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | reply to Transmaster
Re: We believe in Customer Service
You mean they actually have a desk? |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Well no, this may look like a desk but it really is the apartment for all of the support staff. 
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The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| I'm putting you on ignore until you send me a case of keyboards. |
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