robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
| reply to Diddy1
Re: First real subscriber install today
If I understand you correctly, there is a coax running through the wall between two electrical outlets. Is the coax in a box or just coming through a hole in the sheetrock? My first thought is to try to put the cable through the wall so the coax and cat5 can share a wall plate. With the coax already coming through the wall (even though the inside and outside don't line up) perhaps you could use that as a measuring point to drill the new hole for the cat5. If there is currently no box for the coax, then enlarge the opening to use a low voltage box. That should give you enough room to get an idea of whats going on in the wall. Make sure you have a little mirror you can slip into the wall to look around.
I would be cautious about drilling a little above or below the line of the electrical outlets as that is where the romex is most likely to be and odds are you will find the exact location to drill through it. Good idea about the slant to the outside but I would do it by drilling with an up angle from the outside through the mortar. |
|
Diddy1
join:2003-07-19
Sidney, NE
| Ok, there is no box. It is just a hole with silicone. I think the installation of the box is a great idea but I doubt my skills to do this correctly. I've done many home electrical box and outlet (my home) installations and all was good. But, this is just something I'm not comfortable with yet. I need to get this done so. I've spoken with a friend who does satellite installs(went through a training course) and he feels that this idea is realistic. I wanted a second opinion and you have given one. So, I'm unsure how to proceed? I'm not too keen on trying to enlarge the original hole. That was my original plan. Can you elaborate on why you think there might be electrical wiring above the plane of the two outlet boxes?
Aaron |
|
robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
| First to elaborate on the electrical wiring. I have never seen electrical wiring run at the level of the boxes in residential installations. The wire enters the box either from the top or the bottom so the wire is normally run either above or below them. In my opinion, the safest place to drill is always in a line with the electrical outlets.
Now to the low voltage box. If the walls are sheetrock, all you have to do is draw the proper dimensions for the cutout and use a keyhole saw to cut it out (warning -- never use a power saw for something like this, you will cut through any wires that may be behind the sheetrock if you do). Cut carefully and gently and you won't damage anything. The low voltage box I am referring to looks like an old work box but it doesn't have a back. It shouldn't be a problem if you take your time and check everything three times before you do it! I still get nervous when I cut a hole in a wall -- but that's a good thing because I triple check everything to make sure I'm not making a mistake. The best part in your case is if it just won't work there for the cat5 once you have cut the opening, just put the box in and put the coax through it -- no harm done. But you did get a look inside that wall with the mirror, or if your hands aren't really big you can probably feel around a little and have a better idea where not to go for your second try. |
|
Diddy1
join:2003-07-19
Sidney, NE
| said by robbin  :First to elaborate on the electrical wiring. I have never seen electrical wiring run at the level of the boxes in residential installations. The wire enters the box either from the top or the bottom so the wire is normally run either above or below them. In my opinion, the safest place to drill is always in a line with the electrical outlets. Well, oddly enough, around here that is a most common thing I'm hearing from electricians and as I mentioned satellite installers. If there are 2 outlets near each other on the same horizontal plane/location, then it's a pretty sure bet they are running in parallel to each other. Thus, a horizontal wiring across to each outlet. Most of these homes are pushing over 100 years old or older. I actually have a friend that lives in what looks to be a modern home. Strangely, it is a 'sod' house between the modern sheetrock and siding! If you drill through the wall, which they did to install a business band radio antenna, you get dirt and not insulation and bugs 
Aaron |
|
robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
| said by Diddy1 :...then it's a pretty sure bet they are running in parallel to each other. Thus, a horizontal wiring across to each outlet. Most of these homes are pushing over 100 years old or older... I agree that the wiring runs horizontally from one to the other. I have not found it normal that the horizontal run is between the two boxes, but instead above or below them. However, with a house that old it has probably been rewired and then you never know what to expect. I still think the low voltage box is the way to go as it allow you to see inside the wall and when you put a plate on it for the coax no one will ever know you did it. |
|
LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
| Old brick homes are often double or triple courses and the mortar joint on the outside does not always line up with the joint on the inside.
My first choice would be to penetrate the exterior through the soffit/attic if accessible. There is usually a chimney chase or plumbing stack you can sneak alongside to get where you need to.
My second choice would be to go down the exterior to the basement and come in next to a window. There is almost always a wood frame behind the brick mold and not likely to be any wires there.
Third choice is to go in where the electric service enters. On the inside, the wires around the electric panel are usually exposed so even a wire-seeking drillbit is unlikely to hit anything. It will also give you a good grounding point for the PoE injector. |
|
Diddy1
join:2003-07-19
Sidney, NE
| said by LLigetfa :My first choice would be to penetrate the exterior through the soffit/attic if accessible. There is usually a chimney chase or plumbing stack you can sneak alongside to get where you need to. Well somone has done this on this particular home already with a business band radio coax lead. I'm curious how they fished it through the soffit and into the home. Can explain something like that?
Aaron |
|
superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| said by Diddy1 :Well somone has done this on this particular home already with a business band radio coax lead. I'm curious how they fished it through the soffit and into the home. Can explain something like that? Aaron Aaron, when You install a wire in a home, there are numerous ways to get that wire into the home. On the very peak of some roofs, You will find something called ridge vent. It is usually made of aluminum and it has a foam cap at each end that is stuck in to keep the bugs out. If You pry out the foam cap(carefully!) and look in, You will see that underneath the vent is an open space that the roofer cut in to allow air to travel thru the holes in the soffit at the bottom of the roof and out the top. essentially what the roofer did was cut about an inch down on both sides of the very top or peak, and that cut runs the entire length of the ridge vent. Just pull out the cap, and feed Your CAT5, LMR or whatever into this hole and then replace the cap. Once You are in the attic or crawl space, it is usually very easy to find a way into the basement by looking for a space along side a chimney or vent pipe the runs from the basement to the attic. on a 2 story unit, this can be more of a challenge. I usually do not bring it in the ridge vent unless the computer is on the second floor of a two story. If You have to bring it in thru the soffit, it is the same deal almost?. soffit is just hooked together in pieces, and those pieces are stuck in another piece nailed closest to the building called an "F" channel, and then the other end is stuck in the fascia board covering,usually bent aluminum in an "L" shape that covers the front of the fascia board and then it comes down far enough to cover the end of the soffit. The soffit itself is usually nailed at only one end, the fascia board end with 1 nail per piece of soffit. Since most soffit is vinyl, it has a little give in it, and some guys will try and pry over a piece to shove a cable thru. I do not like this method, as it creates a wear point and will rub thru the outside jacket of whatever You are using and short out when it rains. I normally just drill a hole large enough for my cable in the soffit itself and then push the cable thru into the attic or crawl space. Here again, I only do this on 1 story units or two story units that the computer is on the second floor.
--
»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/ |
|
Diddy1
join:2003-07-19
Sidney, NE
| said by superdog : If You have to bring it in thru the soffit, it is the same deal almost?. soffit is just hooked together in pieces, and those pieces are stuck in another piece nailed closest to the building called an "F" channel, and then the other end is stuck in the fascia board covering,usually bent aluminum in an "L" shape that covers the front of the fascia board and then it comes down far enough to cover the end of the soffit. The soffit itself is usually nailed at only one end, the fascia board end with 1 nail per piece of soffit. Since most soffit is vinyl, it has a little give in it, and some guys will try and pry over a piece to shove a cable thru. I do not like this method, as it creates a wear point and will rub thru the outside jacket of whatever You are using and short out when it rains. I normally just drill a hole large enough for my cable in the soffit itself and then push the cable thru into the attic or crawl space. Here again, I only do this on 1 story units or two story units that the computer is on the second floor.
Well the 'soffit' is a stucco material on this home. Perhaps I'm confused on what the soffit actually is? I know some are the aluminum or vinyl you've mentioned but not this home. There is no ridge vent either  There is a couple roof vents, perhaps I should go in there but I really don't want to get into the attic at this point
There is a basement window that another TV coax goes into for a basement TV. I'm thinking this is the best place to go as it's wood? At this point I need to just get the job done for these folks as I feel like an idiot for taking so long on their home. Any more suggestions please post as all these have been great ideas for future installs!
Aaron |
|
LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
| Those guys are mostly talking about newer contruction. You didn't really say if it was new or old but you won't see ridge vents and aluminum soffit with F-channel on old houses unless they were renovated.
For older homes each situation is different so the technique will vary. Assuming an unfinished attic, you can usually see glimpses of light shining in. Where the light can get through generally so can a wire with little effort.
Where you need to drill, use a cable installer's type of long twist drill bit that has a hole drilled through near the business end used for tying a fish wire through it. You leave the drill bit in the hole and go around to the other end and tie a wire through the hole and then go back and pull it out.
If you need to use fishtape, there are two kinds and you should have both on hand. The easy to find fishtape is the one that comes encased in a plastic dispenser with a handle. The bad thing with those is when you uncoil it, it does not lay flat and wants to coil back up. You can use that to your advantage as it will tend to hug one side of a cavity. The other kind is hard to find. It is a long steel tape that likes to lay flat... good for situations where the coily kind hangs up on things. You can also try the fibreglass rods chimney sweeps use but the threaded joints need a much larger hole to go through. For short pulls you can use a plumber's snake.
If you don't yet have a line toner, get yourself one. You can connect one lead of the tone generator to the fishtape and then hunt through the walls with the receiver. Beware that toners don't have much range on twisted pairs if you connect the generator to both wires in a pair. The trick there is to unbalance it by connecting to just one wire and grounding the other lead. |
|
SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Hilo, HI | Nice info LLigetfa, but you left out the blower and mouse.  |
|
