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logins_suck
join:2004-12-28
Two Rivers, WI | great time to leave the country  | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: great said by logins_suck  :time to leave the country Seeya! I hope more of your kind follow suit. Nothing has pissed me off more than hearing those who keep saying they want to move not actually follow through with it.
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Tancredo 2008! | |
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daniyel
join:2001-05-10
Tucson, AZ
| Re: great "Nothing has pissed me off more than hearing those who keep saying they want to move not actually follow through with it."
You must not have many problems in your life for this to take such a toll. Nothing pisses me off more than a government that constantly removes our rights, and monitors our activity. 200 Million Americans are currently participating in Terrorist activity? Looks like grandma's and pet parlors are being monitored at the tax payers expense.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety" Benjamin Franklin. | |
| | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
| Re: great said by daniyel :"... Nothing pisses me off more than a government that constantly removes our rights, and monitors our activity." In this particular case, what right did we lose? | |
| | | | wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| Re: great said by rradina :said by daniyel :"... Nothing pisses me off more than a government that constantly removes our rights, and monitors our activity." In this particular case, what right did we lose? How about the right of 300 million US Citizens not to be actively monitored or spied on in their daily lives and communications? I'd say that that's a fairly important right. Here are a few quotes (three from former US Supreme Court Justices) that might serve to enlighten you:
"The makers of the Constitution conferred the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by all civilized men—the right to be let alone."
-JUSTICE LOUIS D. BRANDEIS
"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evilminded rulers.The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal well meaning but without understanding."
JUSTICE LOUIS D. BRANDEIS
"The fantastic advances in the field of communication constitute a grave danger to the privacy of the individual."
EARL WARREN
"It is the invariable habit of bureaucracies, at all times and everywhere, to assume... that every citizen is a criminal. Their one apparent purpose, pursued with a relentless and furious diligence, is to convert the assumption into a fact. They hunt endlessly for proofs, and, when proofs are lacking, for mere suspicions. The moment they become aware of a definite citizen, John Doe, seeking what is his right under the law, they begin searching feverishly for an excuse for withholding it from him."
H. L. MENCKEN
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That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony. | |
| | | | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Re: great So is a speed trap illegal? Is a DUI checkpoint illegal? Is it illegal for the government to monitor your property and note home improvements that increase its value? What about the census? | |
| | | Andromeda451
join:2004-04-08
Queen Creek, AZ
| Get it right. The government is us, our so called "rights" have been undermined and destroyed by the ACLU and other alleged watchdog groups FOR YEARS... Lets see, sex predator is released by the courts because he served his time, kills a teen and himself. Who to thank? The lawyers. 40% of the department of Interior budget goes to fight activist green groups in court with their junk science. The forests aren't thinned and much of the Mogollon rim burns in AZ two years ago and Lots of California is on fire right now. Who to thank? The lawyers. You think you have a right to privacy? Horse manure, it's not in the US Constitution. It's an "inferred" right by those 9 sorcerers in DC aka the Supremes. I trust the FEDs more than any other group, Lawyer or otherwise. You worry that they're watching you? That's so arrogant as to be beyond reason, unless they should be watching. | |
| | | | ALapo
join:2001-06-11
Washington, DC
| Re: great No right to privacy?
U.S. Constitution: Fourth Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. | |
| | | | | hskrfan23
join:2004-03-18
West Sacramento, CA | Re: great "unreasonable" | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: great Amen to placing the focus on "unreasonable".
As for rights, I'd appreciate having my right not to be harassed by dirtbags restored--along with my right not to have my property stolen or vandalized. However, the endless babble of coddling criminals in the name of "rights" has created the "right" to punish success and the "right" to see one's own failures rewarded by various government handouts and excuse-generating bureaucracies.
As for "reasonable", the use of pen registers to record called numbers does not require a warrant, and hasn't in the past. It is legally similar to recording the license numbers of all cars traversing a certain bridge or intersection--it's merely an observation of traffic, not an examination of content. Likewise, the "message unit detail" or "MUDs" reporting calls in and out are often acquired by law enforcement without a warrant.
I now believe that America's lefties aren't upset about the various surveillance operations since 9/11 because they are worried about liberties, but that they are instead upset that the current administration is indeed doing something to thwart terrorist activity (unlike the last administration, which concentrated on building walls between the FBI and the CIA and figuring out reasons to turn down Sudan's offer to surrender OBL.)
Only a hypocritical looney can say that America's ability to secretly track international money transactions and to thereby track terrorist funding is a bad thing and that disclosing it was a good thing. This was a real secret worth protecting. And BTW, the employment status of a domestic CIA analyst already known to most of the Washington press corps is not worth protecting--though the identity really worth knowing might well be the surgeon who provided her latest face lift. She does look so much better than those old photos in the car and the restaurant, don't you think?
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| said by Andromeda451 :Get it right. The government is us, our so called "rights" have been undermined and destroyed by the ACLU and other alleged watchdog groups FOR YEARS... Lets see, sex predator is released by the courts because he served his time, kills a teen and himself. Who to thank? The lawyers. 40% of the department of Interior budget goes to fight activist green groups in court with their junk science. The forests aren't thinned and much of the Mogollon rim burns in AZ two years ago and Lots of California is on fire right now. Who to thank? The lawyers. You think you have a right to privacy? Horse manure, it's not in the US Constitution. It's an "inferred" right by those 9 sorcerers in DC aka the Supremes. I trust the FEDs more than any other group, Lawyer or otherwise. You worry that they're watching you? That's so arrogant as to be beyond reason, unless they should be watching. Your blind trust in the government is idiotic. | |
| | | | | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
 ·XMission
| said by logins_suck :time to leave the country *YAWN* Yes, and I like how you will follow through, just like all the anti-Bush movie stars who said they would leave the country in 2000 (and some again in 2004) if he was elected, and then found out they were not as popular as they thought (and did not leave).
As someone else pointed out, all hype and no substance to this. Certain forms of non-warrant tapping are legal and others are not. It sounds like some questions are: are they legal or not, and given that the tapping has pulled some arabs/muslims/kooks out of the wood work, what will be the legal status of those arrested/detained using this information if it is ruled that it was illegal? Turn them loose to try again?
If I sound a bit jaundiced at the media, I was in Vietnam when our 'free press' thought it would be nice to talk about certain confidential military operations, all part of the anti-war movement. Lost some friends because of them, which many of us thought was the point of the articles.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| | clickie
join:2005-05-22
Monroe, MI | Re: great Really? And what operations were those? And the names of your friends so I can cross reference them to those known lost and missing in Vietnam? | |
| | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Re: great said by clickie :Really? And what operations were those? And the names of your friends so I can cross reference them to those known lost and missing in Vietnam? Marine Corps forward radar control sites for one example. As far as names, find them yourself.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA
| I don't think so! While I can understand you lack in satisfaction for Ma Bell & Company to protect your privacy and at the same time be disgusted with the idea of federal agencies breaking federal laws, I would rather say it is time for a revolution on the current administration that supports this climate and not better protect the individual rights of people.
pnh102, "Nothing has pissed me off more than hearing those who keep saying they want to move not actually follow through with it." I know you meant this figuratively, because I am sure if I were your neighbor I would certainly know how to push the right buttons to piss you off even more.  For instance, I could help 50,000 border crossers help take whatever future you may think you have--if I were your neighbor seeking to piss you off.  | |
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Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31 | Don't let the door hit you on the way out. | |
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