72245156
TSWB.org
Premium,ExMod 2000-04
join:2000-07-11
Winnipeg, MB
2 edits | The Biggest Problem With My Job
As many of you know, I'm a bus operator for a local transit company. What most people don't know is what my job's biggest problem is. I have far too much time to think. Think about this, think about that, think about nothing. Drive around and think.
I guess it can be a good thing, or a bad thing if my mind starts to wander too much. Tonight it was a good thing. I managed to figure a few things out which left me feeling happy. Excuse me if I ramble and wander a bit here, but the hour is late, or early for some. I work a late shift right now however. It may not be terribly focused, but there is a simple theme.
The theme is Team Starfire and what has almost always set it apart from other teams. Team Starfire's members are the ones who decide what Team Starfire does. Not me, not the forum hosts, not an advisory group and not management. Our members decide what we do. This is something I lost sight of and found tonight.
I've been worried about what DCS members think. I've been worried about the whole BBR DC community when I should only be thinking of this club.
This DCS business is all secondary when what really matters is what the members of this team think and want. And every member counts. That's the way it has always been and why people like it here. Let's get back to doing that.
About DCS. You all know I don't care for the current form of that group. However, that doesn't really matter. If the members of this team feel they need representation there, fine. It can't be me. I have this team to care for, nothing else. Maybe if it's fixed. Right now it's a waste of time.
For the projects this club runs: While we started out as a SETI@Home club, Team Helix spawned from the club and is now a very different team from ours and that's fine. They can do what they want to do and I don't care. However, I believe that the members of Team Starfire have a right to run whichever projects as a team that they see fit. If that means having a Starfire team for the same project another BBR club runs, so be it. No one should be concerned with that as Starfire members are not Helix members or Discovery members unless they choose to be. While we are all BBR members, they are individual clubs with their own personalities. Members of this club cannot be forced to join another club if they want to run a certain project at BBR. Team Scopes are fine if the team members want it to remain focused. I don't believe we need that focus. We thrive on diversity.
What we discuss in our forum here at BBR is up to us and no one else. That is something we have always maintained. Nothing is off topic. What projects we run in this club are up to us and no one else, unless they cross certain lines such as being for profit and I do think we are capable of policing that quite easily.
My apologies for coming across in the other thread as dictating to the team what we should be doing. It's up to the members of Team Starfire what we do.
Now, I'm not sure I got across all I had on my mind and I'm sure I didn't, but the gist of it is there. Topic open for discussion, and if this turns into a pissing match I'm going to throw a kiwi at you. 
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I BOINC, do you? |
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H2gO
join:2004-11-22
New Zealand
clubs:
| quote:
and if this turns into a pissing match I'm gong to throw a kiwi at you
I could take offence at that last comment - however I'll think on it 
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Because if the wife ain't happy, No ones happy |
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m00kie
Yes, Nurse Ratched
Premium
join:2000-09-11
| reply to 72245156
I read your post several times trying to see where I might disagree with what you're saying. I can't seem to find any.
I believe the way the DCS currently is set up and how it actually seems to work is highly flawed and I just don't see the need for it. I feel it is an impediment and not a facilitator. In fact, I feel a DCS will only hurt us.
I curse the day the different forums were created here. Although we never suspected it at the time, it has driven us apart steadily but surely. In any case, for whatever the reasons, we have become different and polarized. Sad but true. I too share your vision for what and who we (Starfire) are, and I long to return to the days of happily crunching along without interference.
As far as apologizing to us, you can scratch me off that list. I don't need an apology, but thanks for extending it.
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Proud Member of the Group of 10
Be the fastest Folder |
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HFB1217
The Wizard
Premium,ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-26
Camelot
clubs: 
4 edits | reply to 72245156
I am very sorry it has come to this and can only say that if you must leave then you must. After all we and you have said this same thing others. But don't destroy the Seti@home team and membership with this rift. This is the Oldest and Finest DC team here we have done such remarkable thing with such a small and dedicated team.
What is happening and with the formation of a second site has ripped the heart and soul out of a great and magnificent being called BBRTeamStarFire and many of it's members as well. You and the others have done and accomplished what no other group could you have brought it to it's KNEES and rendered it impotent for the moment.
Have no fear we shall survive in spite of what has been perpetrated as a so called voice of freedom.
This is something I never expected of you and the few others who follow Xaak's lead and vitriolic actions. Yes you have a right to run and participate in any Boinc project. But to assume you can do as you please any time or when ever it suits you is just a case of over blown EGOTISM. Part of society and Human relationships require people to follow the limits that don't infringe upon others and doing as you damned well please is a form of anarchy and anti-social.
What makes it more the shame and not proper is you used the power given to you in-trust for and by us to plan and stage this event and unholy crises while saying it is for our benefit.
The only people it has benefited are you and your crew. You have left a shamble and large mess behind for us to pick up after and then to heal and carry on.
Their will always be people who want more than their fair share as you have just proved and anarchy is still alive and thriving with the act of your Palace revolt.
I can't for the life of me understand the self centered and unfairness of the attitudes seen here.
This was planed for quite a while it had to be because you needed to restore the other Web site and many of our members removed their Farm systems from actively doing Seti@Home a week ago to E@H on your site prior to the actual event of the Sham withdrawal.
So yes if you want to leave please do but do so in DISGRACE and It PAINS me greatly to say it but you and your group have HURT many a friend and have lost at least my respect.
What I said hurt me very much to say more than most will ever know but I felt I had to respond to Ron.
Now Please just go......!
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****aka The WIZARD **** A Founding member Seti BBR Team Starfire**** |
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perryjay
One of the Ten
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Daytona Beach, FL | reply to 72245156
No apologies needed here either. I just hope that with this post we can get back to what we do best...CRUNCH ON!!!
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"Proud member of the Group of 10" |
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jons
Premium
join:2003-04-15
East Elmhurst, NY
clubs:
| reply to HFB1217
I, for one, cannot believe yet that it has really come to that. Is the consensus truly that 10 or so people have decided that leaving the DSLR site behind is the best and only option at this point? I'm sure some would follow - maybe many, but I don't think I would. I might have considered it if someone had ever asked my opinion on the matter, but it seems that all this has taken place behind closed doors... gee, somehow similar to the "unholy" DCS! I thought one of the biggest beefs was how things had to happen in secret. How ironic... 
Anyway, I hope it hasn't come down to that. That's not what I read from Kinguni's post, but maybe I'm wrong... |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:
 ·VoicePulse
| I do not believe anyone has suggested taking StarFire - Seti away from BBR. However some of the other Boinc projects, which we are not allowed to run or support in the forum here...that is a different story. I do not run Rosetta for BBR, but its because I have no option to run it under BBR Starfire.
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AMD X2 4800+ @2700Mhz/ MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum SLI/ 4x 1024Mb Corsair XMS PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ PNY 7800GTs SLI/ Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler |
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perryjay
One of the Ten
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Daytona Beach, FL
| reply to jons
Jons,
As far as I have seen, no one has suggested leaving DSLR and as far as anything done in secret, everyone and anyone is welcome in the IRC chatroom. I added my sig because I thought it was ludicrous that any group of ten people could break up such a great team. I spend time in the IRC chatroom for just that reason..to chat. It is a more open and friendly place to spend time.
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"Proud member of the Group of 10" |
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72245156
TSWB.org
Premium,ExMod 2000-04
join:2000-07-11
Winnipeg, MB
|  reply to HFB1217
said by HFB1217  :I am very sorry it has come to this and can only say that if you must leave then you must. Excuse my language, but what the fuck are you talking about Hank? 
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I BOINC, do you? |
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HFB1217
The Wizard
Premium,ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-26
Camelot
clubs:
4 edits | reply to HFB1217
You walked out on DCS and you moved many projects to Xaak's site.
Whether overtly or not you have caused a Number of our Biggest Crunchers to drop Seti@Home and move to E@H at Xaak's site Hurting this team.
Why accept the DCS slot if you knew what was going to happen. Don't say you didn't know because many things had to be in place before the actions were taken. Most important of all a home for your projects. By Xaak's posting in the forum we know this was done weeks ahead of time.
The move by many large hitters as well as other members to the site and E@H all in the same time frame and at least a week before the walkout.
The only reason BBRTeamStarFire was not moved was there would be a major riot if done.
So how can you honestly say "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT"
Because all but in name only have you not left. |
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jbags
Premium
join:2001-12-02
Timonium, MD
clubs:
| reply to 72245156
Gee Ron I hope you had some sleep since your last post 
You are still not getting it. We don't understand what the hell is going on with Team Starfire !
We now have several members (leaders) now posting off site.
Just answer this question for me please :
1. What do you want team Starfire to be in the future ?
If it is to be all things to all people, then I am not interested.
Boinc is just a tool we use to generate science.
A team needs a common goal and focus to be a team. We no longer have that. We are S@H, E@H and god knows what else is in the works. Let Helix, Discovery, RC5 have their separate teams. This has worked in the past. What is happening now is not. If someone wants to crunch for Helix and Starfire and Discovery so what. It has always been that way and I don't recall any big problems in the past 5 years.
It seems we are being forced into one big collective with no input from existing members.
I'm old enough to realize that things change and we can't go back to the old days but the current situation is unacceptable.
thanks...John
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Join Broadband Reports Team Starfire SETI@Home
Put your unused clock cycles to work! |
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RPM Jack
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-19
USA
clubs:
 ·AT&T Southwest
| reply to 72245156
I am curious about these "rights" you say we have. Can you point me to a list of our rights as members in justin's "house"?
said by 72245156 : ...However, I believe that the members of Team Starfire have a right to run whichever projects as a team that they see fit... Currently, the site policy states: "This includes requests for new projects, new teams, new forums, front page articles, new spinners, or anything else which needs site approval. These should be forwarded to DC Support."
»DC SUPPORT »WHAT IS DC SUPPORT?
You obviously disagree with the current policies and procedures associated with DCS and DSLR, but I question whether that gives you the "right" to disobey/disregard those policies and procedures. Perhaps you are implying that Team Starfire is not part of DSLR?
said by 72245156 : My apologies for coming across in the other thread as dictating to the team what we should be doing. It's up to the members of Team Starfire what we do. What is your recommendation for a process to allow the members of Team Starfire to have that input now that you, Paul, and Xaak have unilaterally withdrawn (but not resigned?) from the DCS? Does Team Starfire get a "mulligan" on your actions? Do we vote on whether to maintain our direct input in DCS? Do we vote on whether to ignore any DSLR policy or procedure that we dislike?
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"Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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72245156
TSWB.org
Premium,ExMod 2000-04
join:2000-07-11
Winnipeg, MB
| reply to HFB1217
said by HFB1217 :You walked out on DCS and you moved many projects to Xaak's site. They aren't moved there. It's just an alternative place for free discussion, and it's not Xaak's site, it's Team Starfire's site. It could be hosted anywhereWhether overtly or not you have caused a Number of our Biggest Crunchers to drop Seti@Home and move to E@H at Xaak's site Hurting this team. Really? News to me. Why accept the DCS slot if you knew what was going to happen. Don't say you didn't know because many things had to be in place before the actions were taken. Most important of all a home for your projects. By Xaak's posting in the forum we know this was done weeks ahead of time. I took the DCS spot in the hopes of being able to represent Team Starfire fairly. I wasn't prepared for the grief given usThe move by many large hitters as well as other members to the site and E@H all in the same time frame and at least a week before the walkout. Um, sure  The only reason BBRTeamStarFire was not moved was there would be a major riot if done. Sure Hank, if you want to believe that
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I BOINC, do you? |
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MarkH
reserved for later use
Premium
join:2002-12-19
·BT Broadband
| reply to jbags
said by jbags :We are S@H, E@H and god knows what else is in the works. Let Helix, Discovery, RC5 have their separate teams. This has worked in the past. What is happening now is not. If someone wants to crunch for Helix and Starfire and Discovery so what. It has always been that way and I don't recall any big problems in the past 5 years.
And why shouldn't our individual members choose to crunch multiple projects?
You're spot on, we should let Helix, Discovery and RC5 have their separate teams. It has worked in the past, and can continue to do so; just don't force me to crunch for them if I want to run a particular project that is covered by BOINC if I want to do so under the BBR name, if it will run under BOINC, I also want it to run under the Starfire name, and I know many others feel the same way.
Nobody is asking for their members to stop crunching for their teams, just let us crunch our chosen projects our way.
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Proud Member of the Group of 10 |
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Xaak
You'll find me at T S W B.org
Premium
join:2002-06-19 | I'll have whatever Hank's on. I could use some good hallucinations.
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Xaak
Join Team Starfire |
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72245156
TSWB.org
Premium,ExMod 2000-04
join:2000-07-11
Winnipeg, MB
| reply to RPM Jack
Last I checked Justin owned the house but the members made it. No one, and I mean no one, can tell my team members what they can or cannot do with their computers. If they want to run a DC project as part of a team here, then who is to say no and what gives them that right?
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I BOINC, do you? |
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72245156
TSWB.org
Premium,ExMod 2000-04
join:2000-07-11
Winnipeg, MB
| reply to RPM Jack
said by RPM Jack :What is your recommendation for a process to allow the members of Team Starfire to have that input now that you, Paul, and Xaak have unilaterally withdrawn (but not resigned?) from the DCS? Does Team Starfire get a "mulligan" on your actions? Do we vote on whether to maintain our direct input in DCS? Do we vote on whether to ignore any DSLR policy or procedure that we dislike? Sure, why not? If that's what you want to do.
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I BOINC, do you? |
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HFB1217
The Wizard
Premium,ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-26
Camelot
clubs:
| reply to 72245156
Excuse me but what site are they linked to?
Could they all be from »www.teamstarfire.net/
Well look here they are. Gee!!!
»einstein.phys.uwm.edu/team_displ···amid=296
»lhcathome.cern.ch/team_display.p···amid=126
»boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/team_···mid=3120
I guess you are discussing the actual crunching of work units. So what new program is it that does that?
Or are you using Pencil and paper with the MS calculator?
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****aka The WIZARD **** A Founding member Seti BBR Team Starfire**** |
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RPM Jack
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-19
USA
clubs:
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to 72245156
I believe the way it works is that they can run whatever project they want, but if they want to crunch for a project as part of a team associated with DSLR, the site has the right to say yea or nay on the use of the DSLR/BBR name. Is that how it was when you were a mod or the leader of the DCE?
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"Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Xaak
You'll find me at T S W B.org
Premium
join:2002-06-19
1 edit | reply to HFB1217
You missed World Communtiy Grid and Quantum Monte Carlo too.
Edit: Actually, any team that has not been made official is EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED from having references to BBR anywhere and/or links to the BBR site.
That's a managment rule, so we're simply complying with managment's rules. |
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