Xaak
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join:2002-06-19 | reply to HFB1217
Re: The Biggest Problem With My Job
Just out of curiosity, Hank, do you even know what we're talking about?
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justin
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| reply to Xaak
said by Xaak  :We're not asking anyone to rehome anywhere. It's an alternative place to discuss projects that aren't official here. Nobody, to my knowledge, has made a specific suggestion to move the seti team anywhere, as much as Hank would like everyone to believe. I have a problem with the words
* Alternative
* Discuss
* projects that are not official
When they are put together.
Why is this a surprise to you?
If you want to setup alternative non-official projects, and discuss them on some external vbulletin board, BE MY GUEST, you can even mention them from time to time here, but you can't use the glow of the seti forum and the starfire name to build membership within them! this means: they have to stand on their own merits, have their own name, be on their own domain name, and good luck to all who sail upon them.
Naming something "starfire Xaak Rosetta done our way" and hosting it right next to the starfire stats pages, and discussing it in some offsite starfire page forums, is the same in my book as naming the project "dslreports.com Rosetta II". |
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Xaak
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join:2002-06-19
| reply to fatness
said by fatness :The DCS works fine in my view. It just hasn't given you everything you want. Nor any other team. The other teams don't have a problem with that. With all due respect, you changed the DCS, you tasked the DCS, and you run the DCS. Perhaps you're too close to the situation to be completely objective in that matter. Perhaps you can't see it from a team members point of view, where things seem to get dictated to them from on high by the DCS.
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72245156
TSWB.org
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| reply to justin
Why not just have all sanctioned BBR.com teams named BBR. com without team names then? That would solve so many problems Justin. That is part of the current problem. Everyone on that "other" Rosetta team wants to crunch for BBR, just not with Team Helix.
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fatness
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Xaak, I'd like to thank you for letting your team membership see exactly how their rep conducted himself in DCS. Argue everything, dispute everything, change opinions and re-argue, re-dispute, fight on after decisions are discussed and made.
Thank you.
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MarkH
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| reply to justin
Well, this in response to your first post in this thread justin , what you say in it is 100% spot on, no disputing that, but nobody is taking/has taken the ball and gone home. I won't say yet either, because that's not something that should ever have to be done.
From my personal viewpoint, no trying to speak for others here, but I think one of the major issues I have needs to be addressed, so here goes...
I have a question to put to you, and to the various reps of the DCS, if a project receives site approval, and a version of that project is available for BOINC, why should I have to go to Team Helix, or Team Discovery or whoever decides that project is part of their bailiwick?
I want to crunch BOINC projects under the BBR/DSLR name, but I don't want to have to join one of the other teams to do so. Why can't Starfire run it alongside the other team? It will have no impact on the other teams, because I will not run it for them anyhow, the science will still get done, and that's all that should matter to them if they are true to their claims, it just won't be done under their banner.
All I'm asking for is a simple answer.
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Xaak
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join:2002-06-19 | reply to fatness
You're welcome. And thank you for showing how it works too. Ignore the issues and questions, and attack the messenger.
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Xaak
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1 edit | reply to justin
Fair enough. Then we need an alternative. I don't want to disucss rosetta in the Helix forum. I don't want to be a part of Helix. Any posts about Rosetta in the boinc forum get moved to the Helix forum. I want to crunch rosetta with my teammates, who have been made to feel unwelcome in the Helix forum. Yes, I'd like to crunch for a team with BBR on it, but not for Helix. I was told I'd have to "conform to their culture or go someplace else" or something similar to that.
What's your suggestion?
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mig
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| reply to 72245156
said by 72245156 :Why not just have all sanctioned BBR.com teams named BBR. com without team names then? That would solve so many problems Justin. That is part of the current problem. Everyone on that "other" Rosetta team wants to crunch for BBR, just not with Team Helix. I have stayed out of this and will continue to except for one statement here by you Kinguni.
I am one of those "Everyone on that "other" Rosetta team", and I do wish to crunch Rosetta@Home under Team Helix. They are already folding & unfolding proteins, Rosetta is predicting the structure of proteins. It is medical based and it should be, in my opinion only, a project that belongs to either Team Helix or Team Discovery if they so want it, which I believe they do.
I would certainly hope that cooler heads will prevail here, but I must go on record now as saying that all of this has really bothered me, and I have stayed out of it as my direction is now only medical projects.
That being said, I would hope that Team Starfire stays and either rejoins the DCS or let another group represent the Team in the DCS. You can't really believe that no representation will help Team Starfire. Not everyone gets what they want. Please allow some cooling off and reconsider what is actually best for all of Team Starfire.
I noticed all of the Rosetta@Home members leaving last month and that bothered me some, but as long as you all are still crunching it that's all right by me. Because in this area it's really not points, it's getting as many as possible to crunch to help facillitate the finding of cures.
This almost makes me wish BOINC had never been developed and that we were still doing Seti classic. |
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paul myers
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| reply to MarkH
quote:
I want to crunch BOINC projects under the BBR/DSLR name, but I don't want to have to join one of the other teams to do so. Why can't Starfire run it alongside the other team? It will have no impact on the other teams, because I will not run it for them anyhow, the science will still get done, and that's all that should matter to them if they are true to their claims, it just won't be done under their banner.
That sounds an awful lot like what I was thinking. WHY NOT INDEED?
Paul Myers
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Icarus
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| reply to mig
said by mig :I am one of those "Everyone on that "other" Rosetta team", and I do wish to crunch Rosetta@Home under Team Helix. They are already folding & unfolding proteins, Rosetta is predicting the structure of proteins. It is medical based and it should be, in my opinion only, a project that belongs to either Team Helix or Team Discovery if they so want it, which I believe they do. That is how R@H was proposed to the DCS. Its medical based and in the words of Xaak,a perfect fit for either Helix or Discovery. Sadly,after R@H was approved,that all changed and it was suddenly not good for either team and members supposedly started feeling "unwelcome".
Thankfully,many new members have found us and are happy doing the R@H project under the Helix banner and I expect we will contiue to see membership grow in the days to come. Its a terrific project and were glad to be a part of it! |
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MarkH
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| said by Icarus :That is how R@H was proposed to the DCS. Its medical based and in the words of Xaak,a perfect fit for either Helix or Discovery. Sadly,after R@H was approved,that all changed and it was suddenly not good for either team and members supposedly started feeling "unwelcome".
Are those the words of Xaak, or are they just what you are claiming, are they paraphrased or a direct quote? Either way I hope they aren't from the DCS because whats said in there is sacred and not for outsiders as I understand it.
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lilhurricane
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clubs: | Xaak made that intention known to all in a public forum, Mark
You can find it here |
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Icarus
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Thats how it was proposed to the DCS,yes. |
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MarkH
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| reply to lilhurricane
said by lilhurricane :Xaak made that intention known to all in a public forum, Mark You can find it here
Thank you. 
Now if only my other question could be answered.
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Xaak
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| reply to Icarus
said by Icarus :said by mig :I am one of those "Everyone on that "other" Rosetta team", and I do wish to crunch Rosetta@Home under Team Helix. They are already folding & unfolding proteins, Rosetta is predicting the structure of proteins. It is medical based and it should be, in my opinion only, a project that belongs to either Team Helix or Team Discovery if they so want it, which I believe they do. That is how R@H was proposed to the DCS. Its medical based and in the words of Xaak,a perfect fit for either Helix or Discovery. Sadly,after R@H was approved,that all changed and it was suddenly not good for either team and members supposedly started feeling "unwelcome". Thankfully,many new members have found us and are happy doing the R@H project under the Helix banner and I expect we will contiue to see membership grow in the days to come. Its a terrific project and were glad to be a part of it! No, it was a full week before Rosetta was even brought up for approval. Although I don't have access to the DCS anymore, I believe I have an offline archive I can dig into if anyone need to verify it.
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Justakiwi
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| reply to 72245156
It's almost 11am and I still haven't had breakfast it's taking me so long to catch up on all this. I know I have much better things to be doing with my Sunday.
Two things ...
Justin, is absolutely right in everything he's said here. This is his site, we use his forums and we are fortunately enough to be an "official" BBR team. He has every right to make whatever rules he sees fit and he has every right to expect us to abide by them.
So ... we now know that we must be part of the DCS and be represented there. End of story. No point in discussing that any further. We have two priority points of discussion:
1/ Does the team wish to remain at BBR and abide by the rules Justin has set down?
2/ If so, who do we want as our DC reps?
That's pretty much it. Majority rules so if the majority wish the team to remain, then it remains. If the majority wants to take the team offsite - sobeit. Individuals will then have the option of staying or leaving. That's called democracy.
My STOP post in the other thread was an attempt to end the infighting and an attempt to get us moving onto the next stage. Unfortunately it didn't work the way I'd hoped 
I still believe we need one person to act as "information gatherer" - someone who will create whatever threads are necessary to find out what members want re the above two issues. Until somebody is prepared to take on that role, we are just going to go around and around in circles.
Is somebody prepared to do this?
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Xaak
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| reply to lilhurricane
said by lilhurricane :Xaak made that intention known to all in a public forum, Mark You can find it here Sorry, you're leaving out a big, big part of the picture.
We came to an agreement as to scope after that. Specific scope. A DCS member from your own team brought up the opinion that since Rosetta was in fact a project to improve a software program, and not doing medical research, that it didn't fit within helix's scope, or Discovery's for that matter. His argument made sense to me, and I agreed, as well as I believe 2 other members of your team's dcs contingent.
All of this occured before the thread asking that Rosetta be made official.
So your account of things is a bit less than accurate, to say the least.
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lilhurricane
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clubs: | Your post speaks for itself.
...and that one is too old to edit |
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Xaak
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join:2002-06-19 | So do your half truths. |
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