Xaak
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| reply to justin
Re: The Biggest Problem With My Job
We're not asking anyone to rehome anywhere. It's an alternative place to discuss projects that aren't official here. Nobody, to my knowledge, has made a specific suggestion to move the seti team anywhere, as much as Hank would like everyone to believe.
But frankly, the DCS has become a ruling body, and is taking actions without consulting the members that those things affect, and even trying to prohibit a team's own reps from discussing those things. Take the Rosetta team. Not a single member of that team was consulted about the adoption, even though members of 2 different teams suggested it. The adopting team refused.
Sorry, Justin, but the DCS is broken as it stands now. You can continue to try and run it, or maybe it can be fixed.
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| The DCS works fine in my view. It just hasn't given you everything you want. Nor any other team. The other teams don't have a problem with that.
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justin
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| reply to Xaak
said by Xaak  :We're not asking anyone to rehome anywhere. It's an alternative place to discuss projects that aren't official here. Nobody, to my knowledge, has made a specific suggestion to move the seti team anywhere, as much as Hank would like everyone to believe. I have a problem with the words
* Alternative
* Discuss
* projects that are not official
When they are put together.
Why is this a surprise to you?
If you want to setup alternative non-official projects, and discuss them on some external vbulletin board, BE MY GUEST, you can even mention them from time to time here, but you can't use the glow of the seti forum and the starfire name to build membership within them! this means: they have to stand on their own merits, have their own name, be on their own domain name, and good luck to all who sail upon them.
Naming something "starfire Xaak Rosetta done our way" and hosting it right next to the starfire stats pages, and discussing it in some offsite starfire page forums, is the same in my book as naming the project "dslreports.com Rosetta II". |
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Xaak
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| reply to fatness
said by fatness :The DCS works fine in my view. It just hasn't given you everything you want. Nor any other team. The other teams don't have a problem with that. With all due respect, you changed the DCS, you tasked the DCS, and you run the DCS. Perhaps you're too close to the situation to be completely objective in that matter. Perhaps you can't see it from a team members point of view, where things seem to get dictated to them from on high by the DCS.
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72245156
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| reply to justin
Why not just have all sanctioned BBR.com teams named BBR. com without team names then? That would solve so many problems Justin. That is part of the current problem. Everyone on that "other" Rosetta team wants to crunch for BBR, just not with Team Helix.
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Xaak, I'd like to thank you for letting your team membership see exactly how their rep conducted himself in DCS. Argue everything, dispute everything, change opinions and re-argue, re-dispute, fight on after decisions are discussed and made.
Thank you.
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Xaak
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join:2002-06-19 | You're welcome. And thank you for showing how it works too. Ignore the issues and questions, and attack the messenger.
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Xaak
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1 edit | reply to justin
Fair enough. Then we need an alternative. I don't want to disucss rosetta in the Helix forum. I don't want to be a part of Helix. Any posts about Rosetta in the boinc forum get moved to the Helix forum. I want to crunch rosetta with my teammates, who have been made to feel unwelcome in the Helix forum. Yes, I'd like to crunch for a team with BBR on it, but not for Helix. I was told I'd have to "conform to their culture or go someplace else" or something similar to that.
What's your suggestion?
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mig
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| reply to 72245156
said by 72245156 :Why not just have all sanctioned BBR.com teams named BBR. com without team names then? That would solve so many problems Justin. That is part of the current problem. Everyone on that "other" Rosetta team wants to crunch for BBR, just not with Team Helix. I have stayed out of this and will continue to except for one statement here by you Kinguni.
I am one of those "Everyone on that "other" Rosetta team", and I do wish to crunch Rosetta@Home under Team Helix. They are already folding & unfolding proteins, Rosetta is predicting the structure of proteins. It is medical based and it should be, in my opinion only, a project that belongs to either Team Helix or Team Discovery if they so want it, which I believe they do.
I would certainly hope that cooler heads will prevail here, but I must go on record now as saying that all of this has really bothered me, and I have stayed out of it as my direction is now only medical projects.
That being said, I would hope that Team Starfire stays and either rejoins the DCS or let another group represent the Team in the DCS. You can't really believe that no representation will help Team Starfire. Not everyone gets what they want. Please allow some cooling off and reconsider what is actually best for all of Team Starfire.
I noticed all of the Rosetta@Home members leaving last month and that bothered me some, but as long as you all are still crunching it that's all right by me. Because in this area it's really not points, it's getting as many as possible to crunch to help facillitate the finding of cures.
This almost makes me wish BOINC had never been developed and that we were still doing Seti classic. |
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Icarus
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| said by mig :I am one of those "Everyone on that "other" Rosetta team", and I do wish to crunch Rosetta@Home under Team Helix. They are already folding & unfolding proteins, Rosetta is predicting the structure of proteins. It is medical based and it should be, in my opinion only, a project that belongs to either Team Helix or Team Discovery if they so want it, which I believe they do. That is how R@H was proposed to the DCS. Its medical based and in the words of Xaak,a perfect fit for either Helix or Discovery. Sadly,after R@H was approved,that all changed and it was suddenly not good for either team and members supposedly started feeling "unwelcome".
Thankfully,many new members have found us and are happy doing the R@H project under the Helix banner and I expect we will contiue to see membership grow in the days to come. Its a terrific project and were glad to be a part of it! |
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MarkH
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| said by Icarus :That is how R@H was proposed to the DCS. Its medical based and in the words of Xaak,a perfect fit for either Helix or Discovery. Sadly,after R@H was approved,that all changed and it was suddenly not good for either team and members supposedly started feeling "unwelcome".
Are those the words of Xaak, or are they just what you are claiming, are they paraphrased or a direct quote? Either way I hope they aren't from the DCS because whats said in there is sacred and not for outsiders as I understand it.
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lilhurricane
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clubs: | Xaak made that intention known to all in a public forum, Mark
You can find it here |
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Icarus
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Thats how it was proposed to the DCS,yes. |
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MarkH
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| reply to lilhurricane
said by lilhurricane :Xaak made that intention known to all in a public forum, Mark You can find it here
Thank you. 
Now if only my other question could be answered.
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Xaak
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| reply to Icarus
said by Icarus :said by mig :I am one of those "Everyone on that "other" Rosetta team", and I do wish to crunch Rosetta@Home under Team Helix. They are already folding & unfolding proteins, Rosetta is predicting the structure of proteins. It is medical based and it should be, in my opinion only, a project that belongs to either Team Helix or Team Discovery if they so want it, which I believe they do. That is how R@H was proposed to the DCS. Its medical based and in the words of Xaak,a perfect fit for either Helix or Discovery. Sadly,after R@H was approved,that all changed and it was suddenly not good for either team and members supposedly started feeling "unwelcome". Thankfully,many new members have found us and are happy doing the R@H project under the Helix banner and I expect we will contiue to see membership grow in the days to come. Its a terrific project and were glad to be a part of it! No, it was a full week before Rosetta was even brought up for approval. Although I don't have access to the DCS anymore, I believe I have an offline archive I can dig into if anyone need to verify it.
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Xaak
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| reply to lilhurricane
said by lilhurricane :Xaak made that intention known to all in a public forum, Mark You can find it here Sorry, you're leaving out a big, big part of the picture.
We came to an agreement as to scope after that. Specific scope. A DCS member from your own team brought up the opinion that since Rosetta was in fact a project to improve a software program, and not doing medical research, that it didn't fit within helix's scope, or Discovery's for that matter. His argument made sense to me, and I agreed, as well as I believe 2 other members of your team's dcs contingent.
All of this occured before the thread asking that Rosetta be made official.
So your account of things is a bit less than accurate, to say the least.
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lilhurricane
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...and that one is too old to edit  |
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Xaak
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mig
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| reply to 72245156
said by 72245156 :Why not just have all sanctioned BBR.com teams named BBR. com without team names then? That would solve so many problems Justin. That is part of the current problem. Everyone on that "other" Rosetta team wants to crunch for BBR, just not with Team Helix. It dawns on me Kinguni that the "other" team you mention is most likely the Rosetta@Home team Starfire and not Team Helix, and if that is the case then I now see that your statement is most likely true. And now rather than edit my post I will simply apologize for misconstruing what I believed you meant.
This is off topic and I will just make only one comment -
Rosetta@Home is a medical based project. If anyone here feels it is not, rather than have another disagreement (one of many I've had with several here on this topic), I would suggest that you explain why it is not a medical based project to:
Dr David Baker - Rosetta@Home project founder
Professor of Biochemistry at the University of Washington
& Howard Hughes Medical Institute investigator
I would be happy to hear of any follow up conversations that anyone here would have with him on this. |
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jons
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| reply to mig
Just for the record here, I am a loyal Starfire member who also crunches Rosetta for Team Helix. And for the life of me, I don't know why certain Starfire members feel such animosity towards the Helix folks! If there's a legitimate reason, I'd probably like to know it, but I've felt nothing but a warm welcome from TH. I was a part of the "unofficial" Rosetta team when there were fewer than 20 people on it, and I was happy to see it become official. Now everyone seems to be saying they want to crunch for a DSLR/BBR-based Rosetta team. Um, guess what? There is one!
I don't know anything of what goes on in DCS, but I remember the call for DSLR adoption of an official Rosetta team. I remember the discussion and hope that it be picked up by "one of the medical-based teams." It was! What's the big deal? Now I crunch Seti for Starfire and Rosetta for Helix. I even get 2 little twirly things by my name!  |
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