CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| reply to Daddio1949
Re: never pay full price for high speed again!!!
said by Daddio1949  :Does it affect the price of service offered to existing customers? No. I already answered this question; high speed internet is a cash-cow for Comcast.. They make a profit off new customers and make an even larger profit off existing customers. Ar you making up the rules as you go along? Can you show where it states that customers leaving a provider for another DOESNT affect prices or that internet is a cash cow and 100% profit as you have stated in the past?
--
*´*)
¸.•´¸.•*') ¸.•*.
(¸.•´ (¸.•'
Technicians -Unplugged |
|
thehinge
join:2005-11-07 | reply to djrobx
I absolutely agree with dj. Comcast might keep a bunch more customers if they even offered $33.00 long term to ALL customers, not just in the CDV/Video bundle. I suspect not as many price conscious customers would flee to DSL every six months. |
|
CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12 | probably even more if they dropped it to 20.00. |
|
ebuzzn
join:2004-06-20
Santa Cruz, CA
| reply to Daddio1949
Adding more Customers and Doubling speeds means higher bandwidth requirements needed on your forward signal and return. Comcast is always monitoring it CMTS's and individual nodes. When they reach a 80% saturation often new equipment is added in their Headend or node locations to add more bandwidth for the return or forward signal. This does cost $$$$$$. |
|
Morty
Premium
join:2004-09-18
| reply to Daddio1949
It's deception because if you stayed as a Comcast customer, that promotion would not be available to you. So you are leaving with the intent on returning only to gain the discounted rate that would otherwise not be available to you.
Also, cable equipment costs a lot. Never mind that when Comcast bought ATT Broadband they took on a lot of debt. People seem to think that Comcast and Verizon have a huge surplus of money. That's because they borrow, the price of HSI helps them pay it back, as it costs a lot of money for them to actually offer it to you.
As for when it comes to the "number of days". Technically it is suppose to be 90Days you are not eligible for ANY promotions from disconnecting (this is what stops people from disconnecting for a week when they go on vacation, and then turning it back on again to get a promotion). However, depending on your area, sometimes there are exceptions. When it comes down to it, service providers will not deny you service. They'd rather have you paying 19$/mo then 0$/mo, but you're still cheating the system, and that's still wrong. |
|
Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
 ·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| Bottom line is that it's not illegal and not against Comcast policy. If they don't want churning then they should do something about it.
Maybe they can take my $600 a year they won't get out of the CEO's $18.4M total pay package for 2005 or the $33.5M for 2004. Wait, can you hear that . . . it's the world's tiniest violin playing a sad song for Comcast.
Give me a break with all this feel-sad-for-Comcast crap. |
|
Morty
Premium
join:2004-09-18
1 edit | I don't think there's any "feel-sad-for-Comcast-crap". What it comes down to is if people did the same thing with other companies, or followed the same logic just with more money, it is illegal. Lots of people seem to think cheating a company of money is justified if it's just Comcast, or if it's just Verizon.
And people who say "Company X should do something about it" I'm sorry, that's just an excuse. Companies don't put strict measures up because not enough people do it, does that mean it is justified to do it? NO.
Under your logic, it's not illegal to speed past the speed limit on a highway if there are no police officers there to enforce it.
And if there is only 1 person on that highway who speeds out of the thousands that travel on it, is it justified for the Police to pay for a Police Officer to watch everyone on that highway if they're speeding (with a cost in the thousands) only to hand the person a ticket for a few hundred at max? No, it's not worth it. Does that mean it is ok for that one person to speed then? NO it isn't.
If a company has to change policies, make adjustments to billing systems, hire more people to stop customers from doing this, that only costs them more money. The point being is most people have ethics and don't do this kind of thing, so there really isn't any justification for a company to spend more money to stop it, but again.... In no way does this justify for what you are doing. And for the loss in revenue from customers who do this... it's easier to just rate hike the price for everyone else. |
|
Daddio1949
join:2000-12-13
Rockville, MD
| reply to CableTool
Ar you making up the rules as you go along? Can you show where it states that customers leaving a provider for another DOESNT affect prices or that internet is a cash cow and 100% profit as you have stated in the past?
Nor can you show where it states the opposite that customers leaving a provider does affect prices. Just because you say its so, doesn't make it so.
Here is why the promotional offerings do not affect the loyal customers. The cost structure of the cable and telephone companies is largely a sunk cost. They recovered most of their cost through cable TV. When high speed internet came along they were able to piggy-back on their cost for cable TV. Their cost are largely fixed, an increase or decrease in customers are easily handled by their current equipment. Effectively, they are spreading their fixed cost over a greater volume. Their variable cost increase slightly with an additional customer and their revenue increase by even more. Many, if not most, of the increase in customers remain with Comcast and wind up paying more, who serve to increase profit. Have you forgotten that Comcast was granted a monopoly by the county governments. If Comcast sees this as a problem, how come they do have contracts?
It's deception because if you stayed as a Comcast customer, that promotion would not be available to you. So you are leaving with the intent on returning only to gain the discounted rate that would otherwise not be available to you.
Where is the deception. When I rejoined Comcast, they even gave be back my old customer number. They know that I have been a customer several times before. Clearly, Comcast knows that I was customer before. In fact, they welcomed me back. Who have I deceived? I think that you are deceiving yourself here.
Bottom line is that it's not illegal and not against Comcast policy. If they don't want churning then they should do something about it.
So true. |
|
Daddio1949
join:2000-12-13
Rockville, MD
| reply to Morty
If a company has to change policies, make adjustments to billing systems, hire more people to stop customers from doing this, that only costs them more money. The point being is most people have ethics and don't do this kind of thing, so there really isn't any justification for a company to spend more money to stop it, but again.... In no way does this justify for what you are doing. And for the loss in revenue from customers who do this... it's easier to just rate hike the price for everyone else.
This is not ethical issue, its a business issue. Comcast is selling a product. No fraud or deception has occurred. If they allow me to obtain a better price, then its not my fault that I am not paying full price. I suppose that you also feel customers, who haggle for a better price in a car dealership, then cause the price for all other customers to be higher. Are the hagglers deceiving anybody? |
|
Morty
Premium
join:2004-09-18
| reply to Daddio1949
said by Daddio1949 :Nor can you show where it states the opposite that customers leaving a provider does affect prices. Just because you say its so, doesn't make it so. It's built into the pricing of ANY company. You work in the restaurant business, part of the cost of the meal that is provided to you is the "lost sales" cost. That is, if you order a steak, and it is over cooked, and it is sent back to the kitchen, part of the cost for that steak is included on top the food cost for the steak itself. It is expected that not every steak will be perfect, and that a certain percentage of steaks will be sent back. This is calculated into the cost of the steak when you originally purchased it.
This is no different from any other company, when you purchase your cable you pay XX.XX per month, this cost includes a % of costs for trouble calls, repair/upgrades and to no surprise lost customers on top of the cost to provide the service as is, and on top of a sustained profit!
said by Daddio1949 :Here is why the promotional offerings do not affect the loyal customers. Yes, promotional offers as offered do not affected existing customers. That is to say, if new people are signing up, they are helping to lower the operating costs if they are within the existing footprint. However, if an existing customer is getting a constantly discounted rate, then this does affect the cost, and this is calculated in to the price as explained above.
said by Daddio1949 :Where is the deception. When I rejoined Comcast, they even gave be back my old customer number. They know that I have been a customer several times before. Clearly, Comcast knows that I was customer before. In fact, they welcomed me back. Yes, there is nothing wrong with it, if your intentions are legitimate. If you have legitimate reasons for moving back and forth between providers there is not a problem. If you are however, moving back and forth only as a "new subscriber" to obtain a promotion that would not be available to you as an existing subscriber, that is where the deception comes in to play. Many people don't sign up under the same name. Many people put if under there wife's name, there daughters name etc all to get around the system.
said by Daddio1949 :So true. See the post above, *so wrong*. It's a simple case of ethics, something fewer and fewer people have anymore. |
|
Morty
Premium
join:2004-09-18
| reply to Daddio1949
said by Daddio1949 :If a company has to change policies, make adjustments to billing systems, hire more people to stop customers from doing this, that only costs them more money. The point being is most people have ethics and don't do this kind of thing, so there really isn't any justification for a company to spend more money to stop it, but again.... In no way does this justify for what you are doing. And for the loss in revenue from customers who do this... it's easier to just rate hike the price for everyone else.
This is not ethical issue, its a business issue. Comcast is selling a product. No fraud or deception has occurred. If they allow me to obtain a better price, then its not my fault that I am not paying full price. I suppose that you also feel customers, who haggle for a better price in a car dealership, then cause the price for all other customers to be higher. Are the hagglers deceiving anybody? If they have legitimate means to haggle for a lower price then it is valid. IF however, for example, their reason for haggling is "I've never bought a dodge before" -- yet they drove to the dealership in a dodge. Then this would be deceiving, to get a gain that would not be offered to someone who just walked in and asked to buy the car.
Car dealerships are also a bad example, seeing as Dealerships use the "haggle for lower prices" as a selling point, Verizon, Comcast etc clearly do not. Also, it's to no surprise that almost all of the major car companies are in a hole. |
|
Daddio1949
join:2000-12-13
Rockville, MD
| reply to Morty
Yes, there is nothing wrong with it, if your intentions are legitimate. If you have legitimate reasons for moving back and forth between providers there is not a problem. My motives are legitimate, to get the cheapest price possible. Comcast's motives are legitimate too, to make the highest profit possible.
It's built into the pricing of ANY company. You work in the restaurant business, part of the cost of the meal that is provided to you is the "lost sales" cost. That is, if you order a steak, and it is over cooked, and it is sent back to the kitchen, part of the cost for that steak is included on top the food cost for the steak itself. It is expected that not every steak will be perfect, and that a certain percentage of steaks will be sent back. This is calculated into the cost of the steak when you originally purchased it.
I would accept this argument it were true about the cable and telephone industry. The cable and telephone industry are monopolies; they have the ability to set prices. Currently, only two percent of all Americans have more than one cable company to choose from, but those lucky few are paying 10 to 20 percent less than the rest of us who subscribe to cable. That's because the cable industry has evolved as a local monopoly, with little government, consumer or rate protections. As a result, cable companies for the most part have been able to raise rates without the check of competition or any meaningful regulation.
Industry consolidation has also contributed to rising cable rates. Reports from the federal government's investigative arm, the Government Accountability Office (GAO), found in a study of cable prices that as cable companies get larger, and as they cluster and dominate regional areas, prices rise faster. |
|
Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
1 edit | reply to Morty
said by Morty :I don't think there's any "feel-sad-for-Comcast-crap". What it comes down to is if people did the same thing with other companies, or followed the same logic just with more money, it is illegal. Lots of people seem to think cheating a company of money is justified if it's just Comcast, or if it's just Verizon. And people who say "Company X should do something about it" I'm sorry, that's just an excuse. Companies don't put strict measures up because not enough people do it, does that mean it is justified to do it? NO. Under your logic, it's not illegal to speed past the speed limit on a highway if there are no police officers there to enforce it. And if there is only 1 person on that highway who speeds out of the thousands that travel on it, is it justified for the Police to pay for a Police Officer to watch everyone on that highway if they're speeding (with a cost in the thousands) only to hand the person a ticket for a few hundred at max? No, it's not worth it. Does that mean it is ok for that one person to speed then? NO it isn't. If a company has to change policies, make adjustments to billing systems, hire more people to stop customers from doing this, that only costs them more money. The point being is most people have ethics and don't do this kind of thing, so there really isn't any justification for a company to spend more money to stop it, but again.... In no way does this justify for what you are doing. And for the loss in revenue from customers who do this... it's easier to just rate hike the price for everyone else. Speeding is statutorily illegal. Changing cable providers when you aren't under any kind of contract is what? I can't even say it's unethical, since I'm not sure what ethics you think people violate by doing this.
On a very base level, this is a purely business transaction. Comcast sets forth T&Cs and AUPs that need to be agreed upon before receiving services. There is a contractual agreement between the parties. If I operate in ways that are contrary to the provisions of the contract, then I am in breach and Comcast can terminate the agreement (my services). If I take certain actions outside the contract, which is not covered by any of the provisions, and it's not illegal, then the person writing the contract needs to rewrite the document or change the provisions if he doesn't like that behavior.
This is how business works. |
|
Daddio1949
join:2000-12-13
Rockville, MD
| reply to Morty
Hey guys lets talk about Comcast business model of making promotions. Why does Comcast's promotion involve rebates and not just provide a large discount? For example, if you sign up through Circuit City, you will receive $50 gift card if you send in the first month's bill. Why doesn't Comcast lower the price to $10/month for 5 months and make the 6th month $20. The customer gets his $50 rebate through a larger discount. Comcast does not have to manage a rebate program, the customer does not have to submit for it. It seems pretty simple to me. Comcast knows, as well as every company that offers rebates, that few customers submit for the rebate. At least I'm upfront about I do; I can't say the same about Comcast. What a sleazy firm you are defending?
How many of us feel that the rebates never come? If the practice of rebating is reasonable practice, then so is fliping one ISP for another. |
|
Morty
Premium
join:2004-09-18 | reply to Goober
Right, you over look my point. It's not about switching service providers. It's about getting a promotion that's for New Customers only, when you're really not. That's it. |
|
Daddio1949
join:2000-12-13
Rockville, MD
| Right, you over look my point. It's not about switching service providers. It's about getting a promotion that's for New Customers only, when you're really not. That's it.
You still do not get it. No deception has occurred. I have the freedom in this country to get broadband from any provider available. I never told Comcast that I'm a life time customer. As long as I pay my bills and abide by their rules, I'm a good customer. There is no deception whatsoever.
My comparison about a car delealership is this. I choose to go to a dealer and try to get the lowest price possible. You choose to pay list price. If I get a lower price, it doesn't cost you more if you come in after me. The dealer just makes less money on me than you.
What car I drove there has no bearing on the business dealer of buying a new car? So, your counter argument does not make sense. |
|
Morty
Premium
join:2004-09-18
| I think I've made my point very clear. YOU seem to be the one not understanding it and seem to think I'm saying "you can't switch providers". What I'm saying I find wrong is people who purposely go back and forth to get promotions, while a normal "loyal" customer pays the full rate is wrong.
It's a matter of opinion, that's why this topic has been argued to death a bunch of times before, and will be in the future I'm sure. However, I think I've explained to the best of my ability my views, and there's many others who agree with it. Just as there's many who agree with yours. But for this topic, I think I'm done.  |
|
Daddio1949
join:2000-12-13
Rockville, MD | I agree. |
|
Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| reply to Morty
said by Morty :Right, you over look my point. It's not about switching service providers. It's about getting a promotion that's for New Customers only, when you're really not. That's it. But you are a new customer, according to Comcast's definition as programmed into their computer systems. |
|
tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| reply to Morty
said by Morty :It's deception because if you stayed as a Comcast customer, that promotion would not be available to you. So you are leaving with the intent on returning only to gain the discounted rate that would otherwise not be available to you. Also, cable equipment costs a lot. Never mind that when Comcast bought ATT Broadband they took on a lot of debt. People seem to think that Comcast and Verizon have a huge surplus of money. That's because they borrow, the price of HSI helps them pay it back, as it costs a lot of money for them to actually offer it to you. As for when it comes to the "number of days". Technically it is suppose to be 90Days you are not eligible for ANY promotions from disconnecting (this is what stops people from disconnecting for a week when they go on vacation, and then turning it back on again to get a promotion). However, depending on your area, sometimes there are exceptions. When it comes down to it, service providers will not deny you service. They'd rather have you paying 19$/mo then 0$/mo, but you're still cheating the system, and that's still wrong. It's also call competition. If they ran their service like cell phone providers (early term fee, etc), not so many would be jumping ship, however, you are locked into the "plan" you choose when you sign up. If I'm paying 60.00 a month for HSI and DC w/DVR, then, I should keep paying that price till I upgrade and/or after my contract is up, move to someone else, which in turn, they may offer me more goodies to keep me onboard. Till they do that, then when my current promotion is up and they change the price, I'll move to a lower cost service. Same applies to buy a car, house, even a TV (you can bargain at a ABC warehouse store for a cheaper price if you are willing to deal.. |
|
