ArthurS
Watch Those Blinking Lights
Premium
join:2000-10-28
Hamilton, ON
| reply to signmeuptoo
Re: Whole House Surge Protector?
said by signmeuptoo  :In that zip file, the annotation to the diagram, item #9: A question, they are talking about a three phase system there, right? So that bond/run #9 is to the Neutral Bus with the connection to the service feed? If so, then #9 doesn't apply to us in residences, right? Or does it, because I am wondering how dangerous it might be to misinterpret that and use the house neutral that way... Also, in the image you posted: I assume, as I don't know ANYTHING about Commerical electrical installations, that the reason that is called an "isolation" is becuase you are saying the the ground bus is in a totally separate compartment with the bus in it, instead of in the distribution panel? If so, you are saying that we want to get our own little box with a ground bus and make it a secondary isolated ground bus box? I am a bit unclear on what you are saying, I apologize for being so dense! No apologies necessary!  The diagram I posted earlier is just a tiny detail of a much larger drawing set that is my specification for isolation ground and technical power system specifically designed for professional A/V systems that are a part of my consulting practice (think performing arts theatre, large church, concert hall, sports stadium). That said, it's assuming a commercial installation, where typically a shielded isolation transformer is being used to provide a separate technical power service complete with sequencing panel and isolation ground.
I think part of the confusion here is that whenever you put a transformer for a sub panel into the equation (common in large commercial buildings), electrical code requires that your ground (both building and isolation ground) and neutral be bonded together at this point (at the transformer), then run separate conductors to the breaker (sub) panel. Your transformer in residential applications is found on the street either on a pole or in an underground vault! So depending on how things are wired up in your panel, you might have your electrical wiring coming into your house from the electrical provider, with a separate ground tied to your water pipe or separate grounding rod, with neutral and ground being bonded together according to code.
That said I have a number of smaller installations where I have the electrician install an additional isolation ground buss bar within an existing electrical service panel, no extra compartment needed! The isolation of the isolation ground buss bar is achieved through insulative bushings between it and the panel/box it's physically mounted to (to keep it from shorting the isolation ground to the building ground at this point). The key here is that you don't want your isolation ground buss bar to short to building ground at the breaker panel, you *only* want it to be bonded to building ground (and ultimately neutral) either at the transformer (in commercial installations) or at the main service entrance grounding conductor. (Read this last sentence over and over until you have it memorized!)
The breaker panel of which I attached a link to has the isolation ground buss bar in a separate enclosure (the case of which is bonded electrically to the main breaker panel case). The primary goal here is to make sure some meathead electrician doesn't mix up the grounds, and help keep things separate, neat and tidy. There is no reason why this isolation ground buss bar can't be inside the main breaker panel (or a household breaker panel) if properly installed and maintained (make sure it's insulated from the panel itself). A very heavy gauge insulated grounding conductor should be run directly from your breaker panel isolation ground bus bar and bonded to your grounding point at your service entrance. You should have the electrician make sure you have a really good grounding point at the service entrance, and not just some cheapo wire clamped to your water pipe!
said by signmeuptoo :Could you create a schematic or graphic, please? Edit: So after all is said and done, these are the devices that are most advisable for a home owner to install:(?) » https:// currenttechnology.com/product.xh···entGuardThanks. If I had more time, I might be able to draw something (the drawing I posted was a simple copy and paste I did in a matter of seconds), but alas, I'm up to my eyeballs with work and a kitchen renovation this week (I promised my wife a working sink by the end of the week)!  I hope with the information I provided, you can have a licensed electrician put together an isolation ground system for a residential application that meets local codes and keeps the inspector happy. Just make sure he/she knows and understands NEC 250-75 really well.
Be aware that the price of copper has skyrocketed recently, so heavy gauge wire that I would prefer in an isolation ground system can be rather expensive (I just had a church client flip out when they got quotes from a few electricians)!
The whole house solution from current technology seems to offer good protection. |
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signmeuptoo
Folding and Crunching Not just Breakfast
Premium
join:2001-11-22
LOSTinSpace
clubs:  | Thanks. I don't own a house but this is stuff I never learned, I worked for an electrician and we did residential, but he wasn't a genius, let's put it that way...
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Let's be nice to each other, k? Life's too short. |
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nonymous
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
1 edit | reply to steve1515
ok.I know telephone more than power. But the builders in Phoenix hire electricians to do all. The phone well is sometimes bad on a certain crew by crew basis. If phone is bad the electric must be much worse. |
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nonymous
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ | reply to signmeuptoo
No new subdivisions I know of in Phoenix has lightning protection even thou Arizona has alot of lightning. So no builder demand no electricians caring. Special jobs as cell sites etc. of course and more money. Little homeowner well ??? |
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
 ·T-Mobile US
| reply to ArthurS
said by ArthurS :Be aware that the price of copper has skyrocketed recently, so heavy gauge wire that I would prefer in an isolation ground system can be rather expensive (I just had a church client flip out when they got quotes from a few electricians)! No kidding #2 stranded THHN 4kf almost $10 grand.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician. |
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