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Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI

1 edit

Power Save 1200 ----Any one have experience this product?

»www.savepoweramerica.com/

Anyone here have experience with this product? I've been searching for reviews and such, but do not find many.

Their is a $500 tax credit, so I am giving it a try. I got a new unit on ebay from a distributor for about $200 less then they sell it on their site, so when it arrives on monday, I will hook it up and plug in my testers, give it a wirl, see what my lines power factor is and total wattage/amperage running some AC Units, a few Trintron monitors, fridge, toaster oven and cloths dryer ^_^

Thanks all!
--
Do the Do!


rockotman
...Blown On The Steel Breeze
Emerging Research
join:2000-08-06
DSotM
kudos:2
Sounds like a cap bank to me. It states that the unit stores "reactive power".

Large electricity users with loads that draw a huge starting current can benefit by using them to correct the power factor and answer demand current during load start-up. Industrial electric utility customers are generally charged not only based on K-watts consumed, but also based on peak demand, as determined by a demand meter which monitors for large starting currents. These starting currents represent reactive power, but nonetheless result in real power losses throughout the utility's infrastructure as copper losses, requiring larger sized transformers and conductors throughout the infrastructure.

I seriously doubt that the typical homeowner could benefit from such a device, as the homeowner really doesn't have highly inductive loads to start. I wouldn't qualify a central AC unit or a refrigerator as a highly inductive load. At least tno compared to the types of loads that the utility companies worry about.

On the other hand, it could be a power-factor correcting inverter, that makes the load of your house, no matter what the overall power factor may be, look pretty much like a unity power factor to the utility. I still don't see it saving the homeowner much, as the typical house is pretty close to a unity power factor already - motor loads do make it slightly lagging, but I would think to not much more that 0.8 or 0.9.
--
Is there anybody out there?


IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7
reply to Anonuser
this sounds like another one of those devices like the "green plug".
dont they have a larger picture of it ?
i couldnt find any.


rockotman
...Blown On The Steel Breeze
Emerging Research
join:2000-08-06
DSotM
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to Anonuser
Hmmmm... seems like the proprietor, Fred Council IV, is into other businesses as well...

»www.teamopportunityonetravelbiz.com/

Not only can you save money on your electricity, you can start your own travel business.

Go fred.

Google "Fred Council". He is into al kind of money making businesses.

Didn't you think to ask yourself why someone would be selling such a great money saver for over 40% off of the retail price?
--
Is there anybody out there?


McSummation
Mmmm, Zeebas Are Tastee.
Premium,MVM
join:2003-08-13
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:2
reply to Anonuser
It only has a 20 A rating. That's a single residential house circuit. Normally not much inductive load on those circuits anyway - fridge or washer.


Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
reply to Anonuser
I put a green plug on my grandmothers old freezer years ago, and her monthly bill dropped about $60.

Inductive loads would be motors correct? Things like electric water heaters, what would that be?
--
Do the Do!


Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI

1 edit
reply to Anonuser
I called in and asked, it attaches to the whole house, not a single circut. They told me 20ampier storage capicity, the unit itself handles up to 200 amp incomming service.
--
Do the Do!


IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7
said by Anonuser:

I called in and asked, it attaches to the whole house, not a single circut. They told me 200 amp rating, so the site was probially a typo.
than i would imagine this things is big, bulky and very heavy, besides expensive.
--
S.C.P.D. Live Scanner Feed
N.C.P.D. Live Scanner Feed


IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7
reply to Anonuser
said by Anonuser:

I put a green plug on my grandmothers old freezer years ago, and her monthly bill dropped about $60.

Inductive loads would be motors correct? Things like electric water heaters, what would that be?
didnt they stop making those "green plugs" because of the fire risks involved ?
i had a few of them, they arent really anything short of a high current variac/triac circuit.
the ones i had, i modified with better heat sinks to help dissipate the heat.
there was also a "running" voltage calibration control which i set to a lesser voltage than what it was set at, i think 109v from 119.
they work, but dont expect a refrigerator or a/c unit to work any better with it.
they work great for motors, increasing the current supplied if needed, sort of like a regulation circuit, only using needed current to get the "job" done.
--
S.C.P.D. Live Scanner Feed
N.C.P.D. Live Scanner Feed


Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
reply to Anonuser
If it increased the power factor, then it may help me out a bit.

Checked the PF on my 5k btu window AC in my bedroom, and it runs with the PF fluctuating between .78 and .85 It is also a high efficency AC. Although, it runs with that PF, it uses a sustained 354watts of power.

My TV runs with a PF of .88 and uses 120 watts. My trintron uses 200-ish watts, fluctuates Greatly, and the PF is .60

The full size high efficency fridge in the kitchen, has a PF of .92 and uses 100 watts when the compressor is running, and 130 watts when the door is open and the light is on.

I could not test the dryer, as it is 240v 40 amp, but I'm sure it sucks pleanty :P

I will hopefully find out monday or tuesday if the device works or not, if my meters dont measure properly with it on, then I will have to wait until my next bill. We have been using the AC's quite a bit with this heat, MUCH more power used then last month. So if our bill is similiar, lower, or real close, then it works!
--
Do the Do!


McSummation
Mmmm, Zeebas Are Tastee.
Premium,MVM
join:2003-08-13
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:2
quote:
Things like electric water heaters, what would that be?
Resistive load.

Electric dryers are mostly resistive, although the motor is inductive.


sdgthy

@optonline.net
reply to Anonuser
Hmmm, my understanding was that NASA didn't allow the use of it's logo for the endorsement of any product: »www.nasa.gov/audience/formedia/f···nes.html

Any which way, I emailed the NASA contact for logo useage, to check on that.

I call BS. Besides, PFC is a EU thing that has never been an issue in the US, unless maybe you have a demand meter. Unlikely as those are usually only for a bussiness. Not to mention that a UL listing means little, if it atleast had an ETL, CE, or even better a TUV listing, I might think otherwise.


electric6

@sbcglobal.net
Specifications:
- Single Phase
- Utilizes Self-Healing Low Loss Capacitors
- 20 Year Design Life
- Surge Suppression – 2000 Joules

The unit appears to be a plastic capacitor bank.


I call BS. Besides, PFC is a EU thing that has never been an issue in the US, unless maybe you have a demand meter.
Unlike RoHS PF correction is a universal problem. Mandatory compliance could have prevented blackouts.


My TV runs with a PF of .88 and uses 120 watts. My trintron uses 200-ish watts, fluctuates Greatly, and the PF is .60
A capacitor bank does not correct rectifier type loads which may be more damaging than inductive type loads.


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Anonuser
Still not sure about this one

Anyway this looks like the mfg site »www.power-save.com/product.html it has more info

That other site looks a bit questionable, as was pointed out, with their generous use of logos.


Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
kudos:3

1 edit
said by SparkChaser:

Still not sure about this one

Anyway this looks like the mfg site »www.power-save.com/product.html it has more info

That other site looks a bit questionable, as was pointed out, with their generous use of logos.
Aside from the fact that what they call a DOE report which supposedly supports the concept of their product is working with 100's of Kw's I think the key words in the report are "capacitor suppliers and engineering firms can provide the assistance you may need to determine the optimum power correction factor and to correctly locate and install capacitors in your electrical system."

As such just buying a box of caps and connecting it to the breaker panel may or may not have a positive effect on ones electric bill.

Wayne

--
If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.


Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
kudos:3
reply to Anonuser
said by Anonuser:

Their is a $500 tax credit, so I am giving it a try.
Where's that at?

Wayne
--
If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.


Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
reply to Anonuser
They want you to fill a text box out to request the form, I sent in my request for the form, probially get that monday due to it being weekend.
--
Do the Do!


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Okay Anonuser, you're the test subject. We're going to expect a full report, spreadsheet, powerpoint, the works. I hope you have off Monday to work on this


Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
reply to Anonuser
No, wife and myself own a nail and hair salon I will be test it on monday night if it comes on time, DHL seems to have delayed shipment along one of the stopps

I'm installing this in my home first, give er a try, if it works, i'm going to move it to our shoppe, which uses quite a bit of electric. Air brush compressors, hair dryers, 80 gallon electric water heater, capichino machine, tv's, 4 ton AC unit with a 90,000 btu furnace, and exhaust fans up the wazoo

even if it saves 4-5% on my bill, that means I will have it paid for in 6 months with the savings (We have 200 amp service, and at times, use quite a bit of it with the Ac and water heater running)
--
Do the Do!


electric6

@sbcglobal.net

even if it saves 4-5% on my bill, that means I will have it paid for in 6 months with the savings (We have 200 amp service, and at times, use quite a bit of it with the Ac and water heater running)
It seems that you need a full energy audit to identify wasteful old appliances.
Properly insulated Water heater, high efficiency AC, and active drive AC motors for your fans would save a lot more.


Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
reply to Anonuser
Brand new buildout that was completed the beginning of the summer. This is a business I am talking about, not my house.

80 Gallon high recovery rate electric water heater- the building is condo'd out, and the association wouldnt let us put more holes through to the outside, so we had to do electric. on top of needing electric, we need high recovery rate to compensate for the high use of hot water we have.

4 ton AC, it gets very hot in here with all the people, equipment, hair dryers, and other missl equipment we have.
90,000 btu furnace is gas luckly, but it has one big blower to move the air around the shoppe.

on the contrary, we have a new high efficency AC unit, high Efficency furnace, and a High Efficency Water Heater, but electric water heaters, especially high recovery rate, use a lot of power!.

I also forgot about the Capichino machine, that has it's own built in water heater. I keep the water heater and capichino machine on timers, to turn on 20 minutes before the shoppe opens and shut off 30 minutes before we close.

The water heater is very insulated. I heated it up to test it a week before our grand opening, I shut it off once the test was over, and 5 days later, the water was still warm. Not hot, but useable!.

Point i'm trying to get accross, is that Businesses use A LOT OF REASOURCES! ^_^
--
Do the Do!


Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
reply to Anonuser
Arg, wont be delivered until August 3rd
--
Do the Do!


sdgthy

@optonline.net

1 recommendation

reply to sdgthy
The reply from NASA:

"Thanks for the heads up. I will forward it to our legal office."

I'll hold off on a final judgement, but the logo useage doesn't look good.


Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
reply to Anonuser
Interesting news review:

This is for the KVAR unit, which is the same as the power save 1200

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=PapMwstQ7Ks

--
Do the Do!


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by Anonuser:

Interesting news review:
This is for the KVAR unit, which is the same as the power save 1200
Interesting vid, thanks.

I had to look up the patent claim since (as bad as our patent office is and it is ) I could not see how you could get a patent on power factor correction. The patent is is for (quoting the patent) "it is an object of this invention to provide an apparatus and method of use to determine capacitance required to optimize power factor in single phase installations" it's here if anybody is interested.

»patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars···/5440442

Today is the day Anon, it should be arriving. Let's get that baby hooked up
--
My computer has more memory than I do!



Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
reply to Anonuser
Hopefully it will arrive today. The seller used DHL, and to reduce shipping costs (I have no argument against that), used some strange DHL method of shipping, that goes ground accross the us (From Cali to Wisconsin), then once it gets here, it gets dropped off at the county's main Post Office (by Mitchell Int. Airport), then gets transfered to my local post office, then delivered by the mail carrier. Takes longer, harder to determine exact date of delivery But she said projected is today, so, pray :P ^_^
--
Do the Do!


jig

join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
reply to Anonuser
i thought this was a good article on the subject:

»www.dansdata.com/gz028.htm

i thin, though i'm not sure, that most appliances in the home have passive power correction built in. i'm almost positive refrigerators do, and pretty sure the fan in furnaces do, pretty sure that attic fans do not, same with most if not all plug in fans and maybe ceiling fans. and, interestingly enough, i have no idea if the residential AC compressor motor and cooling fan are power corrected. would be nice if they were... BUT, i don't think our power bill takes PC into account, so i don't think it would save us any money to have it.
--
A man compounded of law and gospel is able to cheat a whole country with his religion and then destroy them under color of law. -Ben Franklin


Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
reply to Anonuser
Thanks for the article jig.

Looks like I have to wait until the 8th for the unit, called DHL, and it's still waiting in California, they havent even started moving it from the shipping Depot yet!

ARGG!!!

This is the second time i've used DHL, and seems both times, they have screwed up, and delayed shipment by a week!

I am going to probially take a stroll over to the Rants forum now
--
Do the Do!


jig

join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
i just got hit with a 4 day ups delay on the last part i need for a water system re-pipe. the tracking page says it was a train delay. the delay seems to only have been a day, not sure how that translates into 4 days later....

i also just had a dhl delivery of some house insulation material. they left it outside the front door, my guess is because they had punctured the material in a couple places and didn't want to get in an argument while on the route. pthpt.
--
A man compounded of law and gospel is able to cheat a whole country with his religion and then destroy them under color of law. -Ben Franklin


anonomussss

@bellsouth.net
reply to rockotman
you are so right about the proprietor of this site and all the others he has con man know from experience