jjgb10
Premium
join:2004-11-24
Kasson, MN
clubs:
 ·VOIPo
 ·Qwest.net
·ViaTalk
| reply to McLovin
Re: My own mini-ISP
For a start-up, a single T1 will do just fine as most people will not be using the connection at the same time. If they are, most are not using any traffic at the same time. You just need to give each person something like 256/256 or 384/384kbps to start out with and as you add more people, add another T1. Like everybody else has suggested, you can get 50-70 user on a T1 comfortably if properly managed.
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
1 edit | reply to McLovin
said by McLovin  :Do you think that a single T1 would handle well for 30 users? Should I step it up to a dual or triple bond T1? Yes...but have an upgrade path well-considered...in advance.
Don't worry about adding capacity until you get to a consistent 1MB traffic level, then add some more capacity.
Sure...the burst level will get there, but that is a transitory condition. The burst will "always" consume the whole pipe.
Have a plan...!
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| reply to McLovin
said by McLovin :Do you think that a single T1 would handle well for 30 users?
Yes, it will. With the proper bandwidth management in place, 30 customers will be very happy. Just make sure that You setup a Mikrotik or M0n0wall box to watch over the traffic, otherwise the first person to open up BitTorent, Limewire etc program will CRUSH Your T1.
said by McLovin :Should I step it up to a dual or triple bond T1? The rule of thumb I always follow is to only buy what You need. Prices of bandwidth are always dropping, so just getting a T1 until You need more bandwidth is the best policy, as You would be really mad if You were locked into a 3 year contract for $500 per T1 and right after You signed up, another provider could give You a T1 for $350 per line. Take Your time and think things thru, as most of Your decisions will have a long term effect on Your wallet. 
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| said by superdog :...as most of Your decisions will have a long term effect on Your wallet.
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McLovin
Chicka chicka yeah
Premium
join:2005-06-12
Fairbanks, AK
clubs:
 ·GCI.net
·PTIAlaska.NET
| Maybe I should invest in another wallet. I may need two....
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Dialup is like being digitally crippled. You just can't do what everybody else can.
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Descent
Wrap It Up
Premium
join:2000-11-10
WDC Suburb
1 edit | reply to McLovin
Yikes, sorry. It's just that in this day and age, 1.5mb of down speed just isn't enough in this world of gigabytes and terabytes. Granted, Wireless isn't cable, and I wouldn't expect to see any speeds over 300kb/s but 100kb/s won't cut it for most users and they will jump ship as soon as something better is available. The point im trying to make is not that a T1 can't handle 30-90 users when provisioned correctly with traffic shaping and smart bandwidth control, but the most you'll ever see is 150kb/s bursts between those 30-90 users and that's not fast at all in today's day and age.
Atleast if you had a fractional T3 or bonded T1's then you could offer 2-6mb down 1.5mb up or something along those lines  . in no way did i say I wanted the OP to get a 45mbps 10k/mo T3.
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jbob
Reach Out and Touch Someone
Premium
join:2004-04-26
Little Rock, AR
·Comcast
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to McLovin
Just thinking here but if you offer 512K (down) to users it would only take 3 downloading at the same time to saturate a 1.544 Meg T-1 right? I think a T-1 option is great if offering dial-up service however with todays broadband speeds a T-1 is not really meant for multiple users expecting higher speeds. Higher than 56k maybe but how much more is the expectation? It would only take about 27 users given 56k each to saturate(if downloading/uploading at the same time) that same T-1. To compare most cable CMTS's(or Nodes) are rated to about 30 or 40 Megs correct? And those usually support up to around 250 maybe!
As some have mentioned I see you limited to about 10 subscribers per T-1. And even with that your speeds are still gonna be limited. But anything is better than 56K with only about 28k up!!!
I think my thinking is correct on this!  |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| said by jbob :I think my thinking is correct on this! An article of interest regarding the subject:
»morse.uml.edu/~kchandra/publicat···T-02.pdf
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joshg409
join:2005-05-03
Ottumwa, IA
| reply to McLovin
Yes you can do this with a T1! Most of us on this forum have provided at least 256K service to multiples of happy customers. We have a 4.5M Pipe that runs at 75% usage at peak times and sell connections from 256 to 1M. A t1 is not cable or DSL as others have mentioned. A T1 is full duplex 1.544 up and down at the same time, I can resell my T1 and I have 2 Class C subnets of IP's to assign. I have a service level agreement with my provider that gaurantees QOS on the pipe. I can't get any of that from DSL/Cable. Keep in mind speed is relative as is the speed of your PC. A cable subscriber will never dump his 3M cable connection for your 256K wireless, he/she knows what a 3M pipe can bring them. Just as you wouldn't trash your 3.2ghz PC for a P90 with a floating point error. A 56K dialup user won't know the difference between a 256 and 512K connection but will cry tears of joy when he sees how fast either one of them are! What I am saying is don't sell a 512K connection right off, sell 256 to start and sell speed increases if they get tired of 256. Sell 256K up and down and you can easily get 75-100 subs on the T1 with the right bandwidth shaper. We all dream of a quiet spectrum and no competition from DSL/Cable. You probably have both, start out small and work your way up. Most T1 providers will be happy to increase your speed and add t1's when you need it, but they won't let you go down in speed or services once the contracts are signed. |
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lutful
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to jbob
said by jbob :It would only take about 27 users given 56k each to saturate(if downloading/uploading at the same time) that same T-1. This will only be true if all 27 users phone each other ahead of time and start downloading large files at the same time from 27 different sites.
Otherwise, left to pure statistics, the 27 people on a single T1 will all think they have a 1Mbps pipe if they engage in typical web browsing, checking e-mails and only occasional file downloads.
If the poster eventually hooks up with KKFL fiber at Kenai landing point, I will suggest he consider a 10Mbps Ethernet link burstable to 100Mbps. Many smaller DSL ISPs use that sized pipe for hundreds of users. |
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McLovin
Chicka chicka yeah
Premium
join:2005-06-12
Fairbanks, AK
clubs:
·GCI.net
·PTIAlaska.NET
| reply to joshg409
said by joshg409 :We all dream of a quiet spectrum and no competition from DSL/Cable. You probably have both. Actually there is no competition for the area I am going to service. Phone system is on pair gain, and there is no cable in the ground, and there are a lot of houses in my vicinity.
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Dialup is like being digitally crippled. You just can't do what everybody else can.
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milbrath
join:2006-03-27
Dresden, TN
| I have found that we can oversell anywhere betweem 35-40x in my area. Yours may be different. Ideally you should be able to oversell by a multiple of atleast 30. So selling 512k connections may very well handle 90 users, maybe not. Keep in mind that the larger the pipe you have the greater number you can oversell by.
BM |
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Sweet Witch
Be the flame, not the moth.
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-15
Gallifrey | Can't he simply have several T1 lines laid? That will not only give the needed bandwidth but if one goes down the others can cover temporarily.
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The most courageous thing you can do is be honest. |
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McLovin
Chicka chicka yeah
Premium
join:2005-06-12
Fairbanks, AK
clubs: | reply to McLovin
So 30-40 users at 512/512 on a single T1 shouldn't pose a problem? |
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lutful
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to Sweet Witch
I asked around a bit and it seems that T1 and SDSL availability is extremely limited right now.
Kodiak island is being used for the US missile shield program, so there is some urgency in getting the Kodiak-Kenai Fiber Link (KKFL) completed quickly. That fiber will also extend to Anchorage. |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| reply to McLovin
said by McLovin :So 30-40 users at 512/512 on a single T1 shouldn't pose a problem? I would say 30 users is about right. Not everyone is going to click on a link at the same time or download at the same time. I would also limit Your upload to 256k, as that will give You a little more headroom to operate with.
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McLovin
Chicka chicka yeah
Premium
join:2005-06-12
Fairbanks, AK
clubs:
·GCI.net
·PTIAlaska.NET
| Semi Official service plans:
All plans have a $100 installation fee for equipment.
Silver Pkg: 256/256 for $35/mo.
Gold Pkg: 384/384 for $45/mo.
Platinum Pkg: 512/512 for $50/mo.
I might adjust prices a teeny bit. But thats kind of it.
--
Dialup is like being digitally crippled. You just can't do what everybody else can.
My Baby: Intel D865PERL, P4 3.2Ghz, 1024MB DDR, XFX 6800 Ultra |
|
Sweet Witch
Be the flame, not the moth.
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-15
Gallifrey | Any term for contracts and discounts? |
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uscomputing
join:2005-01-26
Buffalo, NY | reply to McLovin
OT
Hey, when did superdog1 become superdog? |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| said by uscomputing :Hey, when did superdog1 become superdog? About 3 weeks ago. I only had the 1 after my name because another user has used plain old "superdog". It was now available, so I switched.
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