CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
| reply to claudeo
Re: End of Reg Fee = Higher Reg Compliance Fee???
It is dishonest if they state that the price they have is the end price with no other fees/taxes - they don't do that. They have always stated that taxes and fees are not included.
What I find more dishonest is telling users that they will pay $x dollars and that is the price on the bill - then they don't break out the fees. They basically hide the fact they pay the same fees that SE puts on their bills - but Se puts then on in the open...
--
Brian
"Some people are like Slinkies...
Not really good for anything......
But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." |
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artisticcheese
join:2004-11-09
Carrollton, TX
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·VoiceStick
| Don't you find it's dishonest to tell people how they are dropping Federal Regulatory Fee making cozy feeling that ISP doing something for you which will cost you less to have the service, just to find out that behind your back they at the same time jacked up other fees so at the end you are still paying the same fee and probably they are getting richer becouse they are not remitting those compliance fees to government while regulatory fee they were. |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
1 edit | Hmmm - no. Why? Well - it is not like they "jacked up" the other fee - the regulatory fee drop was about 20 cents and rasing another fee to the same amount (20 cents) is not something I would call jacking up the price. To me - jacking up the price is taking a fee from $1 to $3... Not to mention I have yet to see the other fee increased as of yet.
Personally - I would bet you would be suprised by hiw little they are getting "rich" off of the other fee. They are in business to make money - they have to afford the build out for DSL2 among other things. Most people don't really know or understand how business works and just jump to conclusions that the additional fee is just there to make "them" (whomever "they" are) richer.
Again - as I always say to those that complain about the fees and any changes.... Don't like them - then get another ISP and tell SE the reason...
I find the example I posted to be far more dishonest...
--
Brian
"Some people are like Slinkies...
Not really good for anything......
But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." |
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valderost
Here, There, Everywhere
join:2004-02-03
Boston, MA
| reply to CylonRed
said by CylonRed  :It is dishonest if they state that the price they have is the end price with no other fees/taxes - they don't do that. They have always stated that taxes and fees are not included. The "regulatory compliance fee" isn't a tax. If you want to think of it as a true fee, then by that logic, Speakeasy could arbitrarily up that fee to $10/mo and you would be contractually bound to pay it. That doesn't sound quite right though, does it?
My Verizon bill has taxes and fees on it, but they are accompanied by a clear statement that these amounts are mandated by the government.
In fact, during a protracted email discussion with Lawrence McBride on this very topic during winter/spring 2004-05, he asked me about taxes and fees on my telco bill, and I scanned and emailed it to him, along with a request that Speakeasy make a similar claim. What I got back from him was this: complete and utter silence. Of course Speakeasy can't make that claim, because to do so would be fraud.
Lawrence, I reiterate my request: can you please state definitively that the taxes and fees that Speakeasy charges are mandated by government, just like my telco does? And if this isn't the case, and Speakeasy will terminate my service for non-payment of these "fees" which set at Speakeasy's sole discretion, please explain how these "fees" are not part of the pricetag of the service itself? |
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TheOtherPete
join:2001-06-28
Boyds, MD
| said by valderost :The "regulatory compliance fee" isn't a tax. If you want to think of it as a true fee, then by that logic, Speakeasy could arbitrarily up that fee to $10/mo and you would be contractually bound to pay it. That doesn't sound quite right though, does it? My Verizon bill has taxes and fees on it, but they are accompanied by a clear statement that these amounts are mandated by the government. In fact, during a protracted email discussion with Lawrence McBride on this very topic during winter/spring 2004-05, he asked me about taxes and fees on my telco bill, and I scanned and emailed it to him, along with a request that Speakeasy make a similar claim. What I got back from him was this: complete and utter silence. Of course Speakeasy can't make that claim, because to do so would be fraud. Lawrence, I reiterate my request: can you please state definitively that the taxes and fees that Speakeasy charges are mandated by government, just like my telco does? And if this isn't the case, and Speakeasy will terminate my service for non-payment of these "fees" which set at Speakeasy's sole discretion, please explain how these "fees" are not part of the pricetag of the service itself? I agree completely and would like to hear Speakeasy's official position on this issue.
As you said, since the fees are arbitrary, what is stopping Speakeasy from charging any amount they want and forcing customers to pay it (or face huge early-termination charges)?
The Speakeasy website has verbage about applicable taxes and fees but I think a common sense interpretation of that means gov't mandated taxes and fees.
The only bogus fee I agreed to when I signed up was the fee that was in-place at that time. If they want to increase that fee then they need my explicit approval IMO. |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
1 edit | said by TheOtherPete :said by valderost :The "regulatory compliance fee" isn't a tax. If you want to think of it as a true fee, then by that logic, Speakeasy could arbitrarily up that fee to $10/mo and you would be contractually bound to pay it. That doesn't sound quite right though, does it? My Verizon bill has taxes and fees on it, but they are accompanied by a clear statement that these amounts are mandated by the government. In fact, during a protracted email discussion with Lawrence McBride on this very topic during winter/spring 2004-05, he asked me about taxes and fees on my telco bill, and I scanned and emailed it to him, along with a request that Speakeasy make a similar claim. What I got back from him was this: complete and utter silence. Of course Speakeasy can't make that claim, because to do so would be fraud. Lawrence, I reiterate my request: can you please state definitively that the taxes and fees that Speakeasy charges are mandated by government, just like my telco does? And if this isn't the case, and Speakeasy will terminate my service for non-payment of these "fees" which set at Speakeasy's sole discretion, please explain how these "fees" are not part of the pricetag of the service itself? The only bogus fee I agreed to when I signed up was the fee that was in-place at that time. If they want to increase that fee then they need my explicit approval IMO. Please list any and all companies that only increase fees after YOUR explicit approval???? I know the answer for me is a grand total of..... none...
Again - vote with the pocket book - that is the only way tyo get any business attention and tell them exactly why you choose to leave their services.
--
Brian
"Some people are like Slinkies...
Not really good for anything......
But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| said by CylonRed :said by TheOtherPete :said by valderost :The "regulatory compliance fee" isn't a tax. If you want to think of it as a true fee, then by that logic, Speakeasy could arbitrarily up that fee to $10/mo and you would be contractually bound to pay it. That doesn't sound quite right though, does it? My Verizon bill has taxes and fees on it, but they are accompanied by a clear statement that these amounts are mandated by the government. In fact, during a protracted email discussion with Lawrence McBride on this very topic during winter/spring 2004-05, he asked me about taxes and fees on my telco bill, and I scanned and emailed it to him, along with a request that Speakeasy make a similar claim. What I got back from him was this: complete and utter silence. Of course Speakeasy can't make that claim, because to do so would be fraud. Lawrence, I reiterate my request: can you please state definitively that the taxes and fees that Speakeasy charges are mandated by government, just like my telco does? And if this isn't the case, and Speakeasy will terminate my service for non-payment of these "fees" which set at Speakeasy's sole discretion, please explain how these "fees" are not part of the pricetag of the service itself? The only bogus fee I agreed to when I signed up was the fee that was in-place at that time. If they want to increase that fee then they need my explicit approval IMO. Please list any and all companies that only increase fees after YOUR explicit approval???? I know the answer for me is a grand total of..... none... Don't have any credit cards, eh?
-tom
--
"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
1 edit | Many - either none have ever increased a fee or they have never notified me and made sure I agree to them...
My garbage folks added ina fee for gas - I had no opportunity to explicitly agree to the fee - they just notified us they were charging for it - same for taxes/fees at airports for airplane tickets - fees are added or increased with no notice or opportunity to pay it or not. |
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TheOtherPete
join:2001-06-28
Boyds, MD
| reply to CylonRed
said by CylonRed :Please list any and all companies that only increase fees after YOUR explicit approval???? I know the answer for me is a grand total of..... none... Again - vote with the pocket book - that is the only way tyo get any business attention and tell them exactly why you choose to leave their services. Really? I can think of several but that's irrelevent to this discussion.
Since I have a 12-month contract with Speakeasy I don't expect them to change their price during that period nor can I just walk away during the 12-month period without incurring a huge early-termination fee, which should answer your second point. Rest assured I will be voting with my feet when the 12 months is over. |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to CylonRed
said by CylonRed :Many - either none have ever increased a fee or they have never notified me and made sure I agree to them... My garbage folks added ina fee for gas - I had no opportunity to explicitly agree to the fee - they just notified us they were charging for it - same for taxes/fees at airports for airplane tickets - fees are added or increased with no notice or opportunity to pay it or not. If your credit card company changes interest rates, yearly fees, etc., they send you a new cardholder agreement. You're given the choice of closing the account or accepting the new fee/rate structure. If you don't close the account, it's implicit agreement to the new fee/rate structure.
-tom
--
"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis |
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TheOtherPete
join:2001-06-28
Boyds, MD
| reply to CylonRed
said by CylonRed :same for taxes/fees at airports for airplane tickets - fees are added or increased with no notice or opportunity to pay it or not. I buy my airline tickets ahead of time online - all fees and taxes are listed before I confirm that they can charge my credit card for whatever the total amount is.
I have never shown up at the airport with paid tickets and been asked to pay additional fees or taxes.
Apparently I live in a different world then you (or at least use different airlines & airports). |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
| reply to TheOtherPete
said by TheOtherPete :said by CylonRed :Please list any and all companies that only increase fees after YOUR explicit approval???? I know the answer for me is a grand total of..... none... Again - vote with the pocket book - that is the only way tyo get any business attention and tell them exactly why you choose to leave their services. Really? I can think of several but that's irrelevent to this discussion. Since I have a 12-month contract with Speakeasy I don't expect them to change their price during that period nor can I just walk away during the 12-month period without incurring a huge early-termination fee, which should answer your second point. Rest assured I will be voting with my feet when the 12 months is over. They covered that in their TOS:
"Pricing Guarantee:
In the event that Speakeasy's pricing increases, your monthly recurring charge will remain at the price set during order placement or special billing agreement for 12 months following your Activation Date. Additionally, if your account is invoiced quarterly, semi-annually or annually, you will receive your set monthly recurring charge until the end of the current payment period. This does not include new orders under the same name and/or location or new orders associated with a service relocation, nor orders for service changes that may be required if the desired service is not available due to technical or other reasons. Price changes for different packages at the same speeds, technologies, and throughput level are not included; one-time charges, applicable state and federal taxes, and promotional pricing are excluded. This guarantee only applies to the recurring broadband service charges. "
--
Brian
"Some people are like Slinkies...
Not really good for anything......
But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." |
|
CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
1 edit | reply to TheOtherPete
said by TheOtherPete :said by CylonRed :same for taxes/fees at airports for airplane tickets - fees are added or increased with no notice or opportunity to pay it or not. I buy my airline tickets ahead of time online - all fees and taxes are listed before I confirm that they can charge my credit card for whatever the total amount is. I have never shown up at the airport with paid tickets and been asked to pay additional fees or taxes. Apparently I live in a different world then you (or at least use different airlines & airports). That is up to you - if you want to fly any where you have to agree (by buying the ticket) to ANY and ALL fees and ANY and ALL increases to those fees - it is not really a choice if that is the only way you need to get somewhere. They simply increase the fees and never have to disclose it anywhere and never ask you first BEFORE they put the fee on - they just tack it on...
Again - companies can change fees and prices anytime they want - they can even give you a small portion for the same price anytime they want - with the consumer having no vote on it before it happens. That to me is REAL explicit approval - asking for consumer approval before buying and offering the same product without the increased prices/fees...
--
Brian
"Some people are like Slinkies...
Not really good for anything......
But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." |
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TheOtherPete
join:2001-06-28
Boyds, MD
| reply to CylonRed
said by CylonRed :They covered that in their TOS: Pricing Guarantee:
In the event that Speakeasy's pricing increases, your monthly recurring charge will remain at the price set during order placement or special billing agreement for 12 months following your Activation Date. Additionally, if your account is invoiced quarterly, semi-annually or annually, you will receive your set monthly recurring charge until the end of the current payment period. This does not include new orders under the same name and/or location or new orders associated with a service relocation, nor orders for service changes that may be required if the desired service is not available due to technical or other reasons. Price changes for different packages at the same speeds, technologies, and throughput level are not included; one-time charges, applicable state and federal taxes, and promotional pricing are excluded. This guarantee only applies to the recurring broadband service charges. I'm not sure what the above quote proves except that Speakeasy is not allowed to raise my rates during the 12-months which they are effectively doing with this increased "Regulatory Compliance Fee"
I agree that they are allowed to pass through any additional state and federal taxes that they incur but as far as I can tell this "Regulatory Compliance Fee" increase is not based on any state or federal tax increase - it is nothing less then a backdoor price increase to boost their own profits. |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
1 edit | Read the last sentence of the paragraph..... RCF will not be included in the "broadband service charges" thereby making the RCF excuded from the guarantee.
Look - if it is illegal then start a classaction lawsuit against the entire industry - I am sure a ton of lawyers would jump at the chance if there was anything illegal about it - my guess is no lawyers think it is illegal or illegal enough to even bother. |
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wcweaver
Premium
join:2002-02-22
Fort Myers, FL
clubs:
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Comcast
·Embarq
| Bottom line is if the government drops a fee, a provider should drop their monthly charge by the same amount. If they don't, then they are putting money that went into the government's pocket and putting it in their own pocket.
And also, their administrative costs should actually drop becaue this is one less item they have to keep track of and pay to the government.
It is a hidden rate increase no matter how they hide it and it borders on theft because they are trying to disguise the rate increase as something else that is bogus.
If they want a rate increase then be upfront about it and call it a rate increase. |
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TheOtherPete
join:2001-06-28
Boyds, MD | Bellsouth and Verizon have announced they are dropping this bogus fee hike - time for Speakeasy to follow their lead! |
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