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rob_in_chatt
Premium
join:2004-09-17
Chattanooga, TN
 ·Comcast
1 edit | reply to Traxless
Re: Can I Build a Computer?
»www.mwave.com is a great site for AMD prices. you can buy bundle deals there too that are pre tested. check that site out. and you will find that building a PC will give you great pleasure when you fire it up and it starts up. i have built 5 or 6 machines and torn about that many down and upgraded them. tis fun. it can be a bit of a pain in the ass, so i suggest you get a few bandaids (yes the cases will cut you) and a comfortable spot to assemble it in. enjoy  | |
jebba2005
join:2005-01-13
Portland, ME | reply to Traxless
Mechanical pencil works great to straighten pins. Go for it. | |
signmeuptoo
Folding and Crunching Not just Breakfast
Premium
join:2001-11-22
LOSTinSpace
clubs: 
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
 ·AT&T Southeast
| reply to elios
said by elios  :toms isnt the greatest site www.anandtech.com is better as is www.hardocp.com imo get DDR2667 ATLEST or better yet 800 533 is very slow for DDR2 as for mobo that depends on what CPU imo any of the nForce 5x0 based mobos are great for newer CPUs I disagree. There have been times, quite a while back though, that I had exception to things that Anand Shampi had on his site. Tom's is both good, and sometimes so-so, same with Anand. Tom was around before Anand, who is a bit younger, IIRC. He was basically a kid when he started the thing, IIRC.
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Let's be nice to each other, k? Life's too short. | |
signmeuptoo
Folding and Crunching Not just Breakfast
Premium
join:2001-11-22
LOSTinSpace
clubs:
·Future Nine Corpor..
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to Traxless
traxless:
We all started out not a knowing thing on how to assemble a PC once.
Some suggestions I have:
Keep another computer that can go online so you can ask questions, get drivers and burn them to CD, USB drive, or Floppy, and to follow tutorials. Also use the computer to reference to a checklist, one that you have made before you build so you are sure you have not forgotten anything.
Plan your build, thinking it out from which step in what order. Have a large, clear work space that is as safe from static electricity as possible (don't sweat that too much, but IF you can get a wrist strap/gator clip lead for static grounding, it sure won't hurt.
Choose a really good case, because cheap cases make assembling a system a real misery often. Get something very roomy, so when shopping online for cases, take note on paper or whatever on the dimensions: you want one plenty deep enough and long enough for a full size video card AND hard drives. You want one tall enough for good air circulation and room for any aftermarket/oversize CPU HS/F you choose (heat sink + fan assembly). Get a case with at least 2 fans and try hard to get one with 2 or more 120mm fans or places for them, because believe it or not, 120mm fans are EASIER on the ears, being, in effect, often more quiet than many smaller fans.
That brings up another topic. Do a little reading on fans in the silent pc forum here at DSLR. Vantec Stealth fans are great and very quiet, but they don't move much air, so don't use them if you don't have many fans.
As far as CPUs, since by the time you build AMD AM2 CPUs may still be less expensive enough, though it is indeed true that the new Intel "Conroe" (Core *2* Duo) are more desirable now. IF you don't plan on doing anything processing heavy such as video ripping, crunching for Teams Discover/Helix/etcetera (which actually runs in the background and mostly when the CPU isn't doing other work, but), playing video games more recent then the latest, oh, 12 months ago, or any other heavy, dynamic processing, you don't have to get the more expensive CPUs in a given product line. The price to performance to value graph of ANY given recent CPU line is NOT linear, rather, it is curved where prices go up a bit more steeply as their given value/performance goes up. Buying a mid range CPU is often where the best value is.
Also, as far as CPUs go, I suggest getting a dual core CPU (one that is actually TWO processors on the one die/chip, as are some of the AMD socket 939, AM2 (*new* socket 940), Intel Core Duo, Intel Core 2 Duo, Extreme (?) etc. I suggest it because I am guessing that you probably aren't a gamer but that you may want to upgrade to WinVista at some point and that you might even end up with computer habits where you have 2 or more dynamic computing processes going on at one time. What is that, you ask? Well, web browsing isn't too dynamic, you type in a link, a burst of a process occurs, and then you are static again. OTOH, ripping, video conversion, number crunching, Peer to Peer activity, and a number of other things are somewhat dynamic, they apply a continuous load on the CPU. Listening to music is an example, watching video is one, playing a game is one, too.
As far as RAM, OVERCLOCKERS worry about brand, model, CAS etcetera latency, speed, and more. The non performance/ non enthusiast can be just fine with a lower priced decent brand named RAM stick.
As far as Hard Drives go, Seagate now has a new technology that handles how the data goes on the disks in a new way, so they are pretty desirable if you get one of those new ones. If you want to have safer data, you can choose to set up a redundant RAID array of hard drives using the SATA connectors of a given motherboard, but you should get SATA hard drives then so you won't have to buy separate adaptors.
NOW:
Some comments on the connectors:
Motherboards have Power headers which are usually white and a rectangle of squares with female connectors in them totalling either 20 OR 24 pin connectors. (MAKE SURE that you get a power supply that can work with either, some power supplies today have special convertible 20+4 connectors, if you need a picture of one, I can try and find you an example.) The motherboard will ALSO have a 4 female pin OR 8 female pin CPU POWER HEADER that looks like the other one I just described, elsewhere on the motherboard. Watch out, because IF your motherboard is one of the unusual ones to require an 8 pin connector (usually Dual CPU boards, IIRC), you will need a supply that has another convertible 4+4 pin feed connector.
Now, motherboards today are either AGP video OR PCI-Express video (though there are one or two or so that have both, but I wouldn't chose them). Be aware of which the motherboard has that you choose BEFORE ordering a video card. That leads to the next thing: Video. As some have said, on board video may be adequate, but just be aware that you won't have much if any 3d acceleration or any visual effects, and one example is with the new WinVista, which offers an optional windows interface style that uses effects that likes a passably good video accelerator. Now, if you can, try hard to get a motherboard that uses PCI-Express, because AGP is just about obsolete now.
As far as drives go, the motherboard you choose will have parallel, or PATA/EIDE hard drive connectors. Some boards today only have one (two drives per connector). Most new boards today also have Serial, or SATA, drive connectors, for THAT type of hard drive connection. When you choose your power supply, hard drives, and motherboard, be aware of how many SATA drive you plan on or might even add later, and have the right stuff!
NOTE: SATA hard drives use a different type of power AND a different type of motherboard/controller connector. You CAN get adaptors, BTW, but it is best to start out with the right parts.
Now, something else: Most new motherboards have PCI-Express WITH different buss size PCI-Express connectors, because there are x1, x2, x4, x8, and x16. Most boards will have one (or two (if the board is SLI or Crossfire, boards for gamers)) x16 connector, for video. Most will have at least one x1 or x2 and maybe even a x4 connector. There aren't too many products out using these PCI-Express connectors except the video cards, and I don't know if anyone here has any idea when stuff will start to come out...
Fans: Try and have a 120mm fan blowing out of the case from the rear to exhaust GPU and CPU heat, at least one 120mm fan in front of your hard drives (it is a REAL good idea to cool the hard drives by blowing air over them through the front of a modern case, it is the best way to assure no hard drive failure. If you can get a case with a fan that mounts in the side panel blowing in over the GPU/CPU, even better, and some cases have top blow holes which are nice but not too necessary, since the Power Supply is an exhaust as well.
There is no need for 2 optical drives UNLESS you plan on doing DIRECT DISK TO DISK copying, or want a plain DVD ROM (non-burner) for non burning use, to reduce wear and tear on the burner, but there really is no need. Someone mentioned BenQ, NEC, Sony. They are great. Even better is Plextor which is top of the line.
Get yourself a magnetic Philips screw driver for installing the motherboard and hard drives. It will greatly reduce install misery, BELIEVE ME! Have a needle nose like someone said, handy, and/or tweezers.
A note on sound cards: Most of today's latest motherboards have pretty good sound, although they are very driver dependant and sound just won't work without a working driver installed manually AFTER the Windows OS install. This is one advantage of an aftermarket sound card from a company such as Creative. Another is if you get a top end card from Creative, such as the best couple of X-Fi models: »creative.com/products/welcome.asp?category=1 the card will alleviate the CPU of a lot of work cycles AND give you much enhanced sound and additional features and connections, but at a substantial price. The good news is a sound card will hold its' usefulness over a period of perhaps 3 computer builds before you feel the need to replace it with a newer model.
Speakers: No substitute for higher end speakers, although, I have the Creative P7800's, a 7.1 set that blew me away because I only paid 50 for them shipped and they are VERY good for being so cheap, just not audio phile grade. 7.1 is totally not necessary, 5.1 is fine, BTW, because only games and a rare few movies actually use 7.1 at this point.
Whew! I am tired after all of this typing so I will stop here and hope you have read this. I pledge my support to you, and there are wonderful people in this forum that will help also.
HTH,
Bucky
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Let's be nice to each other, k? Life's too short. | |
elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | reply to signmeuptoo
well toms can be prett bias some time time namly to the intel and ATi camps not sure whats going to happne now that AMD owns ATi heh | |
Gem
Premium
join:2005-09-10
·CableOne
| reply to signmeuptoo
Outstanding information, signmeuptoo .
Would you tell a little more about the new Seagate hard drive technology? How and why it is desirable? With perhaps a link? | |
signmeuptoo
Folding and Crunching Not just Breakfast
Premium
join:2001-11-22
LOSTinSpace
clubs:
·Future Nine Corpor..
·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | I found this, but someone else posted a better, more informative link earlier on this technology, in this forum, so try a search:
»techreport.com/reviews/2006q2/ba···x.x?pg=1
Edit:
There is this too:
»www.anandtech.com/storage/showdo···x?i=2760
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Let's be nice to each other, k? Life's too short. | |
NerdOne
A Girl Geek
join:2005-02-10
Topeka, KS
| reply to Traxless
That's what I ask myself all the time, "Can I build a PC?" Because the computer I'm using now is three years old and getting kind of slow, it's a Dell Dimension 2350. The only thing that I did to this computer two months ago was to upgrade the RAM to 512MB. I decided not to put anymore
money in this computer and just go to vocational training classes to learn how to build one. The only thing that I did to my PCs over the last six years was to upgrade the RAM, video card, and HDD so building one should be a piece of cake for me. I'm very sick and tired of what I'm getting for a PC. I don't want to buy one off the shelf anymore, I want a PC I can control and upgrade when I have the money,
and I won't have to upgrade every three years like an OEM
machine. So, that's why I'm going to build one with the hardware and specs I dream of, if I had to put money in the bank.
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"Luke, I am your father" - Darth Vader | |
Traxless
Premium
join:2005-02-16
USA
·AT&T Southwest
·Cbeyond
2 edits | I am simply overwhelmed with the help and thoughtfulness of those who have taken so much time to offer their guidance and experience. This reinforces for me the value of this site and especially some of the very special forums on this BBR site, which are full of kind and knowledgeable people.
I've bookmarked and printed this entire tread (17 pages). I plan to follow-up on the links as advised. Thank you so much Computer Hardware Discussion/ Reviews people.
PS - Special public thanks to signmeupto for an especially thoughtful post. I never seen a response like that before. | |
signmeuptoo
Folding and Crunching Not just Breakfast
Premium
join:2001-11-22
LOSTinSpace
clubs:
·Future Nine Corpor..
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to Traxless
traxless:
Some other things to look for:
The really great cases have removable/slide out motherboard backplanes, which can be nice. Also, look for cases with front connectors rated for USB 2.0, the latest firewire spec, and mic and headphone/speaker, because that way you won't have to use up as many rear card slot spaces for the connectors that come with the motherboard (you see, Some of the USB and firewire connectors are on the "riser", which is the piece attached on the rear end (as installed) of the motherboard where you plug in all external devices. However, NOT ALL USB/Firewire/etc. devices are on that riser, some are only pin/connector headers on the motherboard internally and you have to use the adaptors that come with the motherboard to connect them from the rear as well, but that takes up some of the card slot spaces. The alternative is to get a case that will handle as many additional USB/Firewire header connections as are available on the motherboard. Here is an example, look at this motherboard on newegg:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···13136168
»www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage···D+Retail
»www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage···D+Retail
In the first page you will see that it says, under the specs, about the "rear panel ports" (which is the riser), that there are 4 USB and 1 firewire connectors. However, if you read further, you will see that more USB and firewire are available ON THE Motherboard SURFACE on headers that you use connectors for. The second two pages show the images so you can see them.
With that particular motherboard, an ideal case would include 4 front USB outputs and 1 firewire output, as well as mic and speaker/headphone. You should also note, from the 3rd link, that the CPU header has 8 pin female adapter and the motherboard main power header has a 24 pin connector. That means you would want a power supply that supports such a motherboard. That wouldn't be a bad motherboard, BTW, I don't think, DFI boards are some of the best.
Or you could chill and wait to see what else comes out!
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Let's be nice to each other, k? Life's too short. | |
grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | reply to Traxless
Just to add you might want to look out for motherboards that support up to as much as 16GB of ram since Vista will probably come out during the course of you using this computer and all. Just something to think about. | |
Maggs
Premium
join:2002-11-29
Woodside, NY
·RCN CABLE
| reply to Traxless
"I've bookmarked and printed this entire tread (17 pages)"
Hey if you need help choosing a laser printer, you know where to come 
I like the Brother HL 2070N, since it's network, with parallel, and USB, but the PITA is that is curls the pages when they come out.
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When the lights go out, just draw a KMAP, and all is good. | |
McLovin
Chicka chicka yeah
Premium
join:2005-06-12
Fairbanks, AK
clubs:
·GCI.net
·PTIAlaska.NET
| reply to Traxless
Everybody has said everything, most have repeated the same thing multiple times. I have nothing to offer, except to add more emphasis on research what you are getting first as opposed to getting peoples opinion. Newegg offers great technical specs of everything, compare the two brands (AMD vs. Intel for example) and weigh them based on value for your money. I could put my Intel speech on you all day, but thats just my humble opinion.
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Dialup is like being digitally crippled. You just can't do what everybody else can.
My Baby: Intel D865PERL, P4 3.2Ghz, 1024MB DDR, XFX 6800 Ultra | |
beefcake122
join:2001-03-24
Tucson, AZ
| reply to Traxless
Agreed:
Been building for 10 years (over 100+ computers). Go to newegg and look at the motherboards. Depending on what you want pick a mobo in the price range you want. It is always a good idea to purchase a motherboard that a lot of people have bought and have a 4-5 star rating. This insures its a good reliable motherboard, and likely has a good manual. A good manual is critical on your 1st build. Don't skimp by getting a no-name un-popular motherboard.
Its really rather easy. I don't even read the manual anymore, just put it together, and press the power button. If it doesn't work, then I rip out the manual (like men usually do ). | |
JimmySask
join:2004-06-24
Regina, SK
| reply to signmeuptoo
Good recommendations on the various power connectors - one point worth noting - The Antec Sonata II case you are looking for DOES have a 24 pin connector for the motherboard, which is actually a 20 pin and 4 pin connector clipped together, which you can separate should you only need the 20 pin. It also has the newer style connectors that you need for power to a SATA hard drive, and the ones you need to power some PCI-Express video cards. There again, was something I found I really liked about the case - plenty of power connectors, of pretty well every sort you could home to need. I also find it to be very quiet. | |
signmeuptoo
Folding and Crunching Not just Breakfast
Premium
join:2001-11-22
LOSTinSpace
clubs:
·Future Nine Corpor..
·AT&T Southeast
| But does that Sonata power supply have the 8 pin (4+4) CPU connector on it? Some motherboards require it, such as the one I posted to him. I actually advise against buying a Case + Power Supply combo, and strongly suggest getting separate Case and power supply so "you" can spec to EXACTLY what "you" need.
BTW, traxless, I can give you a listing of which supplies are the best brands, but one that I would take a serious look at is Enermax.
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Let's be nice to each other, k? Life's too short. | |
gigahurtz
Premium
join:2001-10-20
Palm Coast, FL
clubs: | reply to Traxless
I built my first computer a couple of years back and I felt the same way as you. Do some research and ask any questions you have on this board. Everyone here is extremely helpful. Good luck! | |
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