RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to jimkyser
Re: If naperville...
AT&T sold out (eventually) to Comcast. Ameritech (Americast) sold to WOW as part of their acquisition by SBC. Irony abounds.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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jimkyser
join:2000-10-13
Naperville, IL
| reply to marigolds
The problem with Naperville is that the central/older part of the city has really good density and would definitely be a cherry to be picked. With the headquarters for Tellabs and a major development facility for Lucent on the north side of town, there are plenty of early adopters in the mix. Where it gets interesting is that some of the more affluent neighborhoods are in the far southwest part of the city where it kept annexing land as developers moved in. It's like there is a long narrow growth to the SW if you look at a map of the city. The density in that area is lower, with larger homes on slightly larger lots. But there's also a lot of common land typical to newer developments and one very large forest preserve. It's almost like Naperville is two distinct towns.
Amazingly, almost the entire town is still served by a CO in the old downtown. This meant that Naperville was very late in getting DSL from SBC as they had to wait for SBC to build out RTs to get to most of the town. It was like one big broadband blackhole. Then AT&T (the old one) sold their cable network to WOW and suddenly about 1/2 the town could get broadband. Then Comcast rolled out broadband on their network and suddenly some people even had two choices. Finally, SBC installed their RTs and most of the town is now covered.
It's the requirement, by the city, that if any part of the city is served, all of the city must be served that has AT&T balking. I'm sure that if they could get away with serving the 60-70% of the people within 3-4 miles of downtown, they would be very happy. |
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djdanska
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Glen Ellyn, IL
clubs: | reply to Goober
jones intercable did not help much. mediaone was the primary cable company who had hsi back then. (who was just a few miles east)
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When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | reply to marigolds
lol, you're right. The operative term was "per capita". Good catch. |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
 ·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| reply to marigolds
Very good point.
Naperville was really late to the whole broadband party even initially. Other than for DSL out of the downtown CO, there was no widely available cable internet or DSL until about 6 years ago if I remember correctly. Now, we have WOW, Comcast and SBC (with several RTs).
Density would explain the initial slowness as well. |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| reply to Goober
said by Goober  :Naperville would be one of the picked cherries if cherry picking was the only thing driving SBC. As I mentioned above... probably not.
Density, not income, is the driving factor in where to build out, and Naperville is less than 1.2k households/sq mi. Minimum passable for cable is around 400 households/sq mi. I would not be surprised if Project Lightspeed required more like 2.5k households/sq mi.
With a density that low, large chunks of Naperville are going to be below the 400 threshold and hardly any of the city is going to pass the 2.5k threshold. (In contrast, Chicago is over 5k households/sq mi. for the whole city.)
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| reply to worldwebpirate
said by worldwebpirate :
I've done the reseach, As of the census of 2000, there were 128,358 people, 43,751 households, and 33,644 families residing in the city with a per capita income for the city at $35,551. Not very cherry at all.
That's 104.3k per household!
That's enormous, especially for Illinois
Problem is, rich households don't buy cable tv in strong numbers. I would be curious as to which areas AT&T did not want to build out too. I am guessing low density rather than anything that had to do with income. That's the big problem with high incomes; they have low household densities and hence are pretty unprofitable for buildouts.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher |
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XBL2009
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join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL
 ·AT&T Midwest
| reply to RadioDoc
I think the point should be made very clear that Regional monopolies are no better then national ones. The problem with America Broadband is that the telcom industry is still living in the 70's and the technology is from 2010.
I've repeatably said that the whole industry needs to be broken apart and we should have a National Fiber network with full open access to anybody that wants to sell service to the end customer.
Local governments need to be taken out of the picture all together.
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Look who's talking. You haven't even peeled potatoes for the Military..........REPLY: Neither have Dick Cheney or Karl Rove !!! |
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bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL | reply to justmb
Is this right ( for the feds to control this in each state ) spelled out in the Constitution-if so,can any one direct us to the clause in the Constitution that specifically grants this to the feds? Interstate trade? |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| reply to worldwebpirate
How in the world can you look at 6+ year old data and think that it is current?
I moved here (Naperville) in 1991 and have seen the changes and growth over the last 15 years. As you can see from the table above, this area is quite vibrant, particularly when compared to your 2000 data. Probably too much so.
I cringe when I see the "Best Places to Live" surveys because it drives people here. That being said, if you want to live in a town that takes pride in what it is and where the city council overall makes good decisions for its citizens, this is a nice place to be. |
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justmb
join:2005-08-19
Naperville, IL
|  reply to snipper_cr
OK. Time for some facts, directly from the Naperville City Council's documents.
In short, there are more players involved than just AT&T and Naperville. Read the Council Notes from July, and you can see VP of Tellabs, NCTV, Comcast's Area VP, and the Cable TV and Comm. Association of IL (to stand up for WOW and Comcast) all had something to say on this subject.
Quote from the August 16, 2006 summary:
»www.naperville.il.us/dynamic_con···?id=2314
"Our City Council chose the most responsible option," Burchard said. "One that protected our current revenue stream, minimized potential liability and maximized adherence to the State of Illinois Level Playing Field Statute, which requires that video services be provided to the entire community in a fair and non-discriminatory manner."
The city does not expect AT&T to execute the agreement. "It appears that AT&T may use Naperville to bolster their argument supporting federal legislation that would strip local municipalities of long standing control over video services and rights-of-way in their communities."
In September, the Naperville City Council will consider a new ordinance amending its municipal code that allows more providers of this technology to build in Naperville, as long as the company agrees to comply with Illinois level playing field requirements.
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And now for the July 18th Council Meeting Notes:
»www.naperville.il.us/emplibrary/071806m.pdf
Marc Blakeman represented AT&T and presented a video outlining the
programs available over telephone lines with Project Lightspeed. He stated
that they can provide 100% build out with one of their products. He stated
that AT&T is not a cable company.
..
Council discussed the fact that Federal or State legislation will take the
decision out of the control of local municipalities. Blakeman stated that
AT&T will commit to a five year contract regardless of the legislation.
Krause moved to select Option 3 – to direct that the Memorandum of
Understanding Agreement include a build out provision that requires the
parties to negotiate language within 30 days and schedule a public hearing
on August 15, 2006. Second, Miller.
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You decide. Just use the facts next time.
I can't wait to read the notes from the August 16th meeting. (They don't appear to be available yet.) |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to worldwebpirate
You clearly have no clue.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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djdanska
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Glen Ellyn, IL
clubs:
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·T-Mobile US
·A + Net
·Mediacom
·RCN CABLE
| reply to worldwebpirate
Naperville has completely changed since 2000. They where #2 in the best place to live in america recently. (Yeah, i know.)
»money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag···622.html
They have the money to battle this out if they wanted. They are not poor.
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When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. |
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worldwebpirate
@charter.com
1 edit | reply to RadioDoc
I've done the reseach, As of the census of 2000, there were 128,358 people, 43,751 households, and 33,644 families residing in the city with a per capita income for the city at $35,551. Not very cherry at all. |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | reply to op
Naperville would be one of the picked cherries if cherry picking was the only thing driving SBC. |
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rudnicke
Premium
join:2004-10-23
Rantoul, IL | reply to op
Deregulation at it's best. |
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xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | reply to snipper_cr
"I have not dealt with many companies that showed less integrity..."
he obviously hasnt dealt with verizon yet.
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I am not herbert. |
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owenhome
keeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Bentonville, AR | reply to op
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to op
Naperville is one very juicy cherry. You might want to do some research before you parrot nonsense.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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op
join:2005-07-16
Smyrna, DE | reply to snipper_cr
Cause all they(AT&T) want to do is just cherry pick.  |
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