tilt
Premium
join:2003-04-11
USA
2 edits | Fall protection gear questions.
I've made 20+ climbs over the last year over 90', although all those climbs were on ladders with a cage surrounding them. I've never used any harness or lanyards. I've been of the belief that as long as there is a cage around the ladder, you take more of a chance screwing something up the more you mess with clipping a lanyard on/off the ladder on your way up. Since learning what 100% tie-off means, I have changed my mind, and agree that if you always have 1 of 2 clips attached, you basically can not fall. I agree it is safer. I still believe that if you only have a single clip, you'd be safer just waiting until you get to the top to clip on.
I talked to a guy who makes 200+ climbs a year a while back, and he had this harness. These guys seem to have the lowest price on it I could find. I think I want one of these.
Since I typically work on water towers, silos, grain legs, etc, I could get by with only a harness and lanyard, since these structures usually have all kind of steel to clip to while working, and I can work while standing on a ladder or platform.
I do have one 65' steel radio tower I may need to climb, and would like to be able to work on others. My main question for you guys here, is on a steel tower, what type of lanyard do you use so you can lean back and work with both hands? The "one-time-use" fall arrestors aren't made for that. I'd still attach the 100% lanyard clips to something while working, but I can't get much done while still having to hold on with at least one hand. I would think getting the length right would be difficult when you never know how far away whatever you're attaching to will be.
I found this, and wondered if this is a type of tie-off so you can work with both hands.
Links please...
Edit:
I think this is what I'm looking for, but if any of you have some suggestions, tips, ideas etc, I would welcome them... |
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Diddy1
join:2003-07-19
Sidney, NE
| I asked quite awhile back. Perhaps you will find something useful on this post. (links might be outdated now  )
»Tower Climbing Gear
Aaron |
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Book
Premium
join:2004-05-24
Shepherd, MI
| reply to tilt
I bought this harness (not from this vendor) and it is awesome!
Safety, Comfort, Support - this is it! Worth every penny in my mind, you won't be sorry.
»store.pksafety.net/toclha.html |
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AMD Phreak
Premium
join:2003-12-14
| reply to tilt
That link that you posted is a tie off sling. You use them to wrap around a portion of the structure, just like in the picture. Then you clip your fall protection device onto the ring on the sling. I use these on water towers, light towers (like at stadiums), large Rohn or similar towers, and so on. What you need is a work positioning lanyard. Elk River produces a few different types, so hit their site up for information. You can also order harnesses there, I own the Eagle Tower LX and it is the most comfortable one I have ever used. It is paired with a twin leg fall arrestor, I believe the Nopac Flex or something like that? It is red.
»elkriver.com/html/lanyards.html
Even in a cage you should still tie off. It just is not worth it.
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Using a non-ports-system OS is like masturbating with a cheese grater |
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Chele
join:2003-07-23
| reply to tilt
How many of you guys use this type of gear when getting on houses' roofs? Where do you secure it? I have been really thinking about this lately as I normally work alone and am very well aware of the risks(I know, a fall would hurt just as much if I wasn't alone )
I take my time, try to think ahead, and am as careful as I can. I have never had any close calls but I know that is not good enough. |
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AMD Phreak
Premium
join:2003-12-14
| reply to tilt
I don't do roofs. I have an installer for that. I do towers, and drive a desk. 
I hate ladders and roofs. I would rather be 1000' up and off on the side, than be on a 40' roof or 20' ladder.
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Using a non-ports-system OS is like masturbating with a cheese grater |
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Chele
join:2003-07-23
| said by AMD Phreak  :I have an installer for that. I'm the installer |
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LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
| IMHO, roofs are much more dangerous than towers. Still, nobody should climb either without having another person to watch/help. If the fall doesn't kill you instantly, with nobody to help get you to a hospital, dying a slow death alone is no way to go. |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| said by LLigetfa : If the fall doesn't kill you instantly, with nobody to help get you to a hospital, dying a slow death alone is no way to go. I am an expert in "roof skiing". I have done this twice and it is not much fun, trust me, as skiing off the side of a roof is a scary proposition!. 
I normally do not tie off IF the roof has a 5/12 pitch or less. If it is above that, I wear a harness to be safe. If there is no place on the roof that I can tie off too, I have a long rope that I will throw across the roof and then tie or clip it to a tree or as a last resort, the bumper of my truck. It can be a PITA sometimes trying to get hooked up, but that little bit of time You spend on safety may keep You alive and around for awhile.
As mentioned before, You should always have 2 people when on a roof, tower or whatever structure You are climbing, as they can call 911 or get You down before You die from hanging in the harness. You have about 10 minutes from the time You fall until You pass out from lack of blood flow, as it is all trapped in Your legs. It is not long after that when Your heart stops and You know what happens then huh?.
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gmcintire
Graham
Premium
join:2005-08-09
Blue Ridge, TX
| reply to tilt
I use a full safety harness with a lanyard when I climb for fall protection. I also have an old GTE lineman's belt that was used for climbing telephone poles that I use for hands-free working. It's just a leather belt and a strap that loops through the tower, so when I'm at the top I have both that and my harness fastened and can lean back and get my work done.
I completely agree with you superdog. I never climb anything without at least 1 other person there with a cell phone, just in case. |
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funkyfelty
Armament For Peace
join:2002-10-01
Lebanon, PA
 ·EvenLink
1 edit | reply to tilt
When climbing any high structure be it a water tower, grain silo, you should be tied off. The harness that Book pointed out, Exofit by DBI-Sala is great, I have already spent about 5 hours at one time, just haning off of a 400' tower in the exofit, and for the extra money you pay for it, it is well worth it.
As for the fall arrest, the safest way to go about it, is to get a "Y" lanyard. This way you will truly always be 100% tied off. (Example: »www.tessco.com/products/displayP···ntPage=1 )
When it comes to positioning, it can really depend on the type of structure and also what it available to secure yourself to when you get a working height. The two key thing I use are a Pelican Hook & an adjustable lanyard
PelicanHook - »www.tessco.com/products/displayP···ntPage=1
Adj Lanyard - »www.tessco.com/products/displayP···u=496380
Lastly, those harnesses @ the website you posted, are not realistic, when you are up there, you need more places on a harness to secure your equipment too, and personally, there is no way that you would catch me sitting back up on a tower resting in just leg straps. Find a good harness like the exofit that has a seat in it.
If you have any questions, let me know, I am a comtrained climber, there are 9 other certified climber at my company, and we have 3 Comtrain Certified Instructors; and everyone has plenty of expereince.
Also, never John Wayne it, always have a ground guide to call for help if something happens |
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| reply to tilt
Funkyfelty as a comtrained certified climber you realize the Y-strap you linked to is not useful on anything but Rohn style towers due to the size of the gate. Wrapping the strap around a structual member and hooking the gate back on the strap is not supported due to the loading on the gate. Only a carabiner style y strap will provide the proper locking interface for that use.
Also it's not recommended to secure gear to your harness for a variety of reasons including the possiblity of injuring yourself during a fall. Instead you should use a bucket and hauline. Of course I break this rule by using pants with cargo pants when I don't need to carry very much.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber |
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tilt
Premium
join:2003-04-11
USA
| reply to tilt
Thanks for everyone's replies. I now have a pretty good idea of what to look for. Like I said in my first post, that Exofit was the one I saw a guy using in person, and he recommended it highly.
The question I still have for you guys is on climbing a ladder on a silo or water tower that has a cage around it. I gave my opinion, only to have climbers more experienced than myself disagree it seems. I feel like if the ladder has a cage, clipping on every other rung is just using energy that would be better spent moving towards your goal. I agree that if you have 2 clips (Y lanyard) you can always have one clipped on at all times (100%), but... Doesn't anyone else feel that the more clipping and unclipping you do, you're just increasing the chances of making a mistake? It also takes energy just holding on while stopped on a ladder while clipping/unclipping. Again, I'm not going to argue the fact that a 100% lanyard is going to be the safest. Actually, I think I'm looking at this from what may be a unique perspective. I'm far from as fit as I'd like to be for climbing. I smoke, and am overweight. I think the thought of the climb to the top taking 4 times as long while messing with clipping on just doesn't appeal to me. I feel like I need 100% of my energy just to get to the top.
Another issue I've run into, especially in colder temperatures, is grabbing steel rungs on a tower. So let's say I can make it up 130' without passing out. By the time I get up there, then maybe pull 50 pounds of equipment up on a rope, My arms are really tired. I had one experience this spring when the work on a grain leg took way longer than estimated, and it was 2 hours past sundown, 25F, with a steady 20-30mph wind. My hands were so cold that about halfway down the ladder, my hands would not open up on their own after grabbing a rung. I would have to pull my hand open to allow it to grab the next rung. My forearms were also so pumped that a couple times I had to just embrace the ladder and work my hands and forearms until they would work again. The cage on this ladder was we built so I could lean back too, except for the last 25' near the ground with no cage. The closest I've ever had to this problem with my hands/arms were after riding motocross, where they just call it "arm pump". Your muscles spasm because they are starved for oxygen. Anyone else ever experience this? Maybe I'm just weak, lol. I've always been a heavy guy but never let it stop me from doing something. The feeling of accomplishment usually extinguishes the pain, and no matter how bad it hurts, of you're still 50' off the ground, you're gonna do what you gotta do to get down. It would be really embarrassing to have to call the fire department to come get you. |
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AMD Phreak
Premium
join:2003-12-14
1 edit | reply to tilt
You need to have someone install a lad-safe from DBI. This is a cable that runs the length of the ladder and is secured at the top and bottom. You use a harness with a chest dorsal ring, and attach to it using a special trolly. It slides up and down the cable freely, but if you fall, it tightens down on the cable and stops you from falling off. These types of things need to be installed by properly trained techs or engineers as lives depend on them. This is the only way you can safely ascend something without falling off.
And if it were that cold and nasty out, I would have not finished the job. I have an old sign that I took from an old AT&T site that we colo in. For some reason someone took it down and it was laying on the floor. It hangs above my desk in the office to remind me and the other engineers :
"No job is so important, and no service is so urgent that we cannot take the time to do it safely."
I live by these rules every day I do tower work, or work around high-power communications systems.
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Using a non-ports-system OS is like masturbating with a cheese grater |
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| reply to tilt
tilt, any protection is better than none. If the additional physical effort of clipping and unclipping is an issue than I suggest you re-evaluate who does your climbing.
I'm also overweight and a bit out of shape so your persepective isn't unique. With good planning and a bottom person (always a requirement) you only have to climb once and descend once.
BTW a single lanyard of the type you mentioned isn't safe to use anyway since it doesn't allow for 100% tieoff.
If you have several sites you climb regularly the climb safe device like Phreak mentions is a good thing to install and use.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber |
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funkyfelty
Armament For Peace
join:2002-10-01
Lebanon, PA
·EvenLink
| reply to cmaenginsb
cmaenginsb
- I realize that the Y-Lanyard I linked to is only usable on Rohn towers, i linked to it to demonstrate a Y-Lanyard
As for the harness loading, Klein has pouches that you put on the sids of the harness to carry small tools, and by saying gear I meant places to attach safety lanyard, Pelican hooks, and positioning straps
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PA Army National Guard - I turn the wrenches that keep the forces moving |
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tilt
Premium
join:2003-04-11
USA
| reply to AMD Phreak
Yes, I've seen these cable systems for ladders, and have already made the decision I'll hire the climbing done if it's a ladder without a cage. If I'm asking a city to allow me a to put equipment on their water tower though, I don't want to pay for the cable system myself, and I can't very well ask them to pay for it. I think OSHA actually requires them, but if it's a matter of getting my equipment installed or not, I'll have to deal with what's there. That would be nice to have a cable in place. |
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| reply to tilt
Actually OHSA only requires the cable systems on new construction fitting certain requirements.
I completely understand about dealing with what's there, I had one tower that looked unclimbable with 100% protection for the first 20' until I saw what the other climbers working on it did.
Funky, I just wanted to clarify things for the newbies. As to gear, I know of many older "experienced" climbers who climb with various antennas attached to them.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber |
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slipstream1
Premium
join:2005-11-15
Jacksonville, TX | reply to tilt
If you are not 100% tied off when climbing, you are wrong. I do not care if the ladder has a cage around it or not. 100% tie off procedures save lives. |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| reply to cmaenginsb
said by cmaenginsb :Instead you should use a bucket and hauline. Of course I break this rule by using pants with cargo pants when I don't need to carry very much. So do I.  When I am pulling CAT5, I tie it right to the harness, the same with radios and antennas. I also have a large tool belt that slips in from the back that allows me carry everything that I need.
I guess I need to break old habits huh?. 
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