jaums
join:2005-10-04
Silver Spring, MD
| FiOS TV & 1080P
Shopping for a new HDTV. I'm gathering from my reading that FiOS does not send 1080P at this time - the only things that do, basically, are games and blue-ray. But what about the future? Is it worth it to pay the extra for a TV that both accepts and displays 1080P? Will it be more 'ready for the future' than one that is 1080i or only DISPLAYS at 1080P?
Thanks!
Jaums |
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SquareSlinky
Premium
join:2004-05-25
Tampa, FL
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·ViaTalk
| There really isn't all that much broadcasting in 1080P. I recently read an article that they are having to lower the prices of these TV's because the public isn't buying into it (for several reasons, cost, nothing to watch in it, and 1080i looks just as good) |
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Charles65
@verizon.net
| reply to jaums
There is no broadcasting in 1080P. All high def is either in 720P or 1080i. The Samsung tv's then upconverts the signal to a 1080p signal. I recently moved from a 1080i 38" set to the 1080p 56" set and I'm very pleased with the picture. Even standard def signals look acceptable. |
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pestep
join:2004-08-22
Rowlett, TX
| Currently, the only way to get 1080p signals is by using a home theater PC, or with a bluray player (and eventually HD DVD). I agree that with most high def content there's little difference between a 720p set and a 1080p set. So it's hard to justify the purchase of a 1080p set based on that. However, the 1080p sets seem to do a *much* better job handling standard def content. For that reason, I wouldn't consider buying a set that wasn't 1080p. |
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Raven313
join:2001-12-17
Crofton, MD | reply to jaums
Broadcasting in 1080p requires another round of hardware and system upgrades similar to what is going on now in hi-def. My guess is that broadcasting in 1080p won't happen on any significant level till 2010 at the earliest. |
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SquareSlinky
Premium
join:2004-05-25
Tampa, FL | reply to jaums
I heard they are already talking about the next step above 1080P. 1080I and HD already causes for some actors/actresses to be a little too clear, if you know what I mean. |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| reply to jaums
1080P is not a transmission standard. Therefore it will not anytime soon be broadcast. The current FCC approved broadcast limit is 1080i.
Either way 1080P requires too much bandwidth even with GPON to be of any use. It's only true uses are for high resolution medical imaging.
Anyone who sells you something that does 1080p even the PS3 are basically taking the 720p signal and upconverting it or taking the 1080i signal and making it progressive. Either way you do not have the true data that 1080p is capable of. You're just getting the same bits as 720p or 1080i.
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mrbadss
join:2005-12-20
Redondo Beach, CA
| reply to jaums
Well, you can never be to sure.
I bet someone who was building the first x86 processor said " who will ever need more than 32 mb or RAM, so lets put a hard limit on that"
I agree that 1080p doesnt have a use right now as a broadcast standard, but the way technology is going, there will be some new compression standard that will make it work over GPON and then every company who makes home theater devices will be selling that interface device. Everyone in America will go out and buy it and then 1 year later, something even better will come out forcing you to throw out the device you bought a year earlier.
Bottom line, the technology lifecycles are getting shorter. Pay the "big bucks" for the 1080p if you are willing to spend more money on a device to make it work in a year (blueray, new tivo, or whatever it is). If you are not willing to "invest" in this new lifestyle, then get a cheaper set.
Sorry for the rant. I am a bitter "early adopter."
mrbadss |
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retsam
join:2004-09-02
Red Bank, NJ
| reply to NOCMan
you need to read up on that standards dude. you have no idea what your talking about. besides GPON has nothing to do with the way verizon uses the fiber for television traffic. the television portion in on a separate wavelength then the data network.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p |
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KenAF
join:2006-01-23
Arlington, VA
| reply to jaums
retsam,
GPON will be a factor when FiOS uses IPTV for something other than VOD, but I agree that is not happening soon.
That said, the above posters are right that you should not expect to see 1080p video content soon. Today, we have 1080p24 film content which is delivered as 1080i60. But we won't see 1080p (30fps or 60fps) video content for the simple reason that other service providers are bandwidth-constrained as it is with 1080i.
If every cable provider had bandwidth comparable to FiOS, we would already have some 1080p channels. However, that just isn't the case. Most cable providers are stuck with the legacy of analog carriage and this severely contrains their capacity. It would be nice if a content provider would offer a 1080p channel just for FiOS to carry, but that is not how the industry works. The content industry creates and distributes its content in most appropriate format for -all- of its cable company customers. |
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SaltiDawg
join:2005-10-17
Rockville, MD
| reply to NOCMan
"1080P is not a transmission standard. Therefore it will not anytime soon be broadcast. The current FCC approved broadcast limit is 1080i."
Nonsense!
"You're just getting the same bits as 720p or 1080i."
It's not entirely about what you're 'getting'. It's also about what you're displaying! |
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KenAF
join:2006-01-23
Arlington, VA
4 edits | reply to jaums
Just to reiterate what I said above, 1080p televisions do benefit cable and broadcast television.
Much of the film-sourced content on CBS, NBC, HBO, etc is 1080p/24 delivered as 1080i60. A number of newer shows are also 1080p/24 sourced from HDTV cameras, delivered as 1080i60.
If you have a 1080p television, it can reconstruct the original 1080p image from the 1080i60 broadcast. Some 1080p televisions clearly do this better than others, so when buying a new 1080p TV, it is important to buy one with quality video processing and deinterlace. The alternative is to buy a high-end video processor for your 1080p TV like the DVDO iScan VP50 which will do this for you.
»www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_isvp50.php
A review of the DVDO iScan VP50 can be found below, and is one of the best things you can do for your 1080p display or projector:
»www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre···t=724723
Within a few years, TVs should incorporate video processing with 1080p deinterlace performance that is more comparable to this solution, significantly improving the appearance of 1080i broadcast signals. Unfortunately, for now, quality 1080i->1080p deinterlace performance is expensive -- and is probably one of the areas where you will see 1080p TVs significantly improve in the coming years. |
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jaums
join:2005-10-04
Silver Spring, MD
| said by KenAF  : so when buying a new 1080p TV, it is important to buy one with quality video processing and deinterlace. That's what the "XD Engine" in the LG 47" LCD is supposed to do? »us.lge.com/products/model/detail···DA.jhtml |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| reply to jaums
"It is unable to be broadcast in a compressed transmission to current MPEG-2 based HD receivers"
It's 3.0/Gbs which means it will be heavily compressed to fit movies on any kind of medium in use today.
Either way, by the time 1080p content becomes available in a worthwile manner you'll be looking to replace that first HDTV anyways. Why waste the money on one small feature?
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Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
 ·Comcast
 ·SONIC.NET
3 edits | 1080p delivery might coincide with better compression codecs than MPEG2?
It looks like 1080p (e.g., 1080p60 or even 1080p24) delivery is sort of just pushing each aspect of the system forward a little, for instance: better codec, better standardized use of better codec, more bandwidth for delivery, better processing (hopefully not necessary since not deinterlacing, but for 1080p60 could need speed), better interfaces between modem and screen input, better modem to support proper interfaces, better screen to display the better content.
It shouldn't be too hard for entities like Verizon FiOS TV to put a simple proper decent HDTV 1080p setup (1920x1080p60, 1920x1080p30, 1920x1080p24, 1080i60->1080p24 3-2 pulldown reversal??) in a lab somewhere so they can learn about delivering it, but of course the utility of doing something like that is low until they think they're close enough to start consider carrying it somewhere. That time may already be upon us. |
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pestep
join:2004-08-22
Rowlett, TX
| Why buy a 1080p set today?
1> My 1080p set looks signficantly better on standard def signals than 720p sets
2> My 1080p set looks better on 1080i signals than 720p sets
3> My 1080p set looks just as good on 720p signals as a 720p set
4> My 1080p set accepts 1080p/24 input, so I'm looking forward to judder free (no 3-2 pulldown required) movies once an affordable bluray player exists. |
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SquareSlinky
Premium
join:2004-05-25
Tampa, FL | reply to jaums
Is there a 1080P standard? I thought I read that they are all being built according to different standards. |
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cairey
join:2003-01-27
Parkville, MD
| reply to NOCMan
said by NOCMan :Anyone who sells you something that does 1080p even the PS3 are basically taking the 720p signal and upconverting it or taking the 1080i signal and making it progressive. Either way you do not have the true data that 1080p is capable of. You're just getting the same bits as 720p or 1080i. Actually the PS3 will output true 1080p. Most games will be 720p to start, but 6 of these games have already been announced, most being 1080p60. Having a TV upscale a 720 or 1080i signal to 1080p may not always be the best, however if you are going to be doing that, make sure the TV is capable of doing the conversions without too much distortion of the image. Also as noted, Blu-ray will be 1080p ready, so that's something to keep in mind, especially if you're getting a PS3. |
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KenAF
join:2006-01-23
Arlington, VA
4 edits | reply to jaums
quote:
That's what the "XD Engine" in the LG 47" LCD is supposed to do? »us.lge.com/products/model/detail···DA.jhtml
You're link doesn't work, but that's quite possibly the case.
However, again, the quality of 1080i->1080p deinterlace varies widely from display to display. The technology is still evolving for HD signals.
Generally, film-sourced 1080p24 content delivered as 1080i60 with IVTC flags (like the output from a Toshiba HD-DVD player) is the easiest for a TV to reconstruct into the original 1080p image. Most 1080p TVs can correctly reconstruct the original 1080p image from the 1080i output of a Toshiba HD-DVD player.
Film-sourced content from cable or off-air that isn't correctly flagged requires motion adaptive IVTC, and that is an area where you will see differences in performance between models. Video deinterlace is another area where you see significant differences.
The industry standard for 480i->480p is motion-adaptive, per-pixel deinterlace. This method delivers the best possible picture without a loss in resolution. Unfortunately, right now, few if any 1080p HDTVs offer the same motion-adaptive, per-pixel deinterlace for 1080i signals. Most 1080p TVs available today use inferior region-based deinterlace for HD signals, which isn't able to achieve 1920x1080 resolution for 1080i content with motion. This inferior deinterlace method is partly to blame for the motion blur you see on camera pans with high-definition content (poor deinterlace and excess compression are both factors).
If you have a HD-DVD player, you can download and burn a DVD test disk to compare the performance of HD displays -- a vertical resolution test will show how well your TV does in deinterlacing film and video.
»www.w6rz.net/ |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| reply to cairey
said by cairey :said by NOCMan :Anyone who sells you something that does 1080p even the PS3 are basically taking the 720p signal and upconverting it or taking the 1080i signal and making it progressive. Either way you do not have the true data that 1080p is capable of. You're just getting the same bits as 720p or 1080i. Actually the PS3 will output true 1080p. Most games will be 720p to start, but 6 of these games have already been announced, most being 1080p60. Having a TV upscale a 720 or 1080i signal to 1080p may not always be the best, however if you are going to be doing that, make sure the TV is capable of doing the conversions without too much distortion of the image. Also as noted, Blu-ray will be 1080p ready, so that's something to keep in mind, especially if you're getting a PS3. Know of any off the shelf grapics cards out there that can generate 1080P in any game at 60fps consistently? If not then the PS3 definately cannot do this. It may be able to satisify the video requirement that the tv needs to broadcast the signal, but I doubt that the game could maintain such a framerate.
Plus I dont know how many people I've heard having problems with progressive content videogames and lag on their tv's. May only affect a few brands, but I hate to find out on a 1080p tv that there's a problem.
Plus awhile back someone wrote out how much storage a 1080p60 movie would reqire. Blu-Ray or HD-DVD discs do not have that kind of capacity. So for the PS3 it is generated on the fly. I really see some horsepower issues there. Even the 360 is being realistic in the 720p arena. I dont have a problem with that resolution and in fact am hard pressed to find a difference between 720p and 1080i.
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