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odinb

join:2001-11-26
Frisco, TX

Difference between 4100 and 5100

Found this thread: »Have both SS 5100a and SS 4100, which is better to use?

Where Doctor Olds states that newer is better, i.e. one should choose the 4100 over the 5100.

(Could not reply to the old thread, apparently it was too old....)

As the reason he states better support for newer DSL standards. But as far as I can see, these standards that are supported in the newer 4100 is also supported in the 5100 (G.lite and full-rate ADSL, ADSL2, ADSL2+ and RE-ADSL).

See the specs for the 5100: »subscriber.communication ··· 00.shtml

Or is it as simple as the SBC/AT&T version being crippled on these?


nwrickert
sand groper
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join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
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I think the 4100 and 5100b use a newer better chip set than the 5100a. I'm not aware of any important functional difference between the 5100b (SBC version) and the 4100 (SBC version).


Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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reply to odinb
said by odinb:

Found this thread: »Have both SS 5100a and SS 4100, which is better to use?

Where Doctor Olds states that newer is better, i.e. one should choose the 4100 over the 5100.

(Could not reply to the old thread, apparently it was too old....)
That's a great feature. The posting rules actually state 2 weeks is the limit for an old post to no longer be replied to unless you are the topic starter.

said by odinb:

As the reason he states better support for newer DSL standards. But as far as I can see, these standards that are supported in the newer 4100 is also supported in the 5100 (G.lite and full-rate ADSL, ADSL2, ADSL2+ and RE-ADSL).
The answer I posted is factually correct for the 5100a and the 5100a does not support those extra standards.
said by odinb:

See the specs for the 5100: »subscriber.communication ··· 00.shtml

Or is it as simple as the SBC/AT&T version being crippled on these?
Where do you see the specs for the SBC 5100a? Both the chipset and the firmware is crippled.

Regards,

Doctor Olds
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?


odinb

join:2001-11-26
Frisco, TX

1 edit
Was never doubting you facts Doctor Olds. You have been a great help to me and lots of other people in here for a long time!

I just now realise that the original thread was for the 5100a, and I have the 5100B. So, then again (rephrased), what is the difference between the 5100B and the 4100, and which one is the preferred choice (SBC versions)?

Did not know that it was crippled in HW, thought it was FW only, guess they made a cheaper version of it then....


Doctor Olds
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reply to nwrickert
said by nwrickert:

I think the 4100 and 5100b use a newer better chip set than the 5100a. I'm not aware of any important functional difference between the 5100b (SBC version) and the 4100 (SBC version).
Correct. The 5100b and the 4100 (SBC versions) use the AR7 chipset while the 5100a uses the obsolete AR5 chipset.

You can test the actual units if you have a 5100b and a 4100 (SBC versions) to work with. It will tell you in Telnet what modes are actually supported.

The command is:
cfg dsl{mode

The options returned could include these.

mult
ansi
dmt
lite
dsl2
auto
ds2p
red2
naam
emt

For example a 6520 Wireless Gateway returns this output:

cfg dsl{mode

: mode = auto [mult,ansi,dmt,lite,dsl2,auto,ds2p,red2,naam,emt]

My 5100 Router with the AR5 chipset shows:

login: admin
password:
User logged in
xsh> cfg dsl{mode
mode = mult [mult,ansi,dmt,lite,emt]
xsh>

Regards,

Doctor Olds

--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?


odinb

join:2001-11-26
Frisco, TX
reply to odinb
Ok, have the 5100B, but not the 4100 yet (will arrive in the mail in a couple of days from AT&T).

So as far as I understand, it really does not matter, these are basically the same modem.

Thanks for the help/info!


Doctor Olds
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If you are provisioned for ADSL2 or ADSL2+ it very well could matter as no one has posted the modes a SBC 5100b supports for checking/validation. The 5100b hardware (AR7 chipset) may support it, but the SBC firmware may not explaining why the 5100 (all versions) is obsoleted and not available from SBC/AT&T or even Siemens anymore.

You would then only be able to use the 4100 to connect as it does support ADSL2 and ADSL2+ in Firmware and Hardware.

Regards,

Doctor Olds
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?


odinb

join:2001-11-26
Frisco, TX
reply to odinb
What is the procedure to telnet into the 5100B?
Got a "connect failed" message when trying telnet 192.168.0.1.
This IP works for the webGUI.


Doctor Olds
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I don't have one so I personally don't know, but the FAQ here says telnet is supported.

»AT&T Midwest/Ameritech FAQ »Funhouse 5100b Setup and Reference Info

Regards,

Doctor Olds


wayjac
Premium,MVM
join:2001-12-22
Indy

2 recommendations

The telnet server is only active when the 5100b/4100 modem is in a factory default state.

I was unsucessful at guessing the login/password combo to get pass the login prompt. I included the telnet statement on the chance someone would come up with the correct info for the login prompt.

+000 days 00:00:00      E |System       |=============== SYSTEM UP ===============
+000 days 00:00:00 E |System |Current Mode: PPP on the modem (Public IP for LAN device)
+000 days 00:00:01 E |DSL |DataPump Version - 01.01.00.00
+000 days 00:00:01 E |DSL |State: WAITING
+000 days 00:00:02 E |Ethernet |Link 1 Up - 100Base-TX Full Duplex
+000 days 00:00:09 E |DSL |State: INITIALIZING
+000 days 00:00:17 E |DSL |HYBRID 1
+000 days 00:00:17 E |DSL |Link up 1 US 768 DS 6016 (FAST:G.dmt)
+000 days 00:01:28 E |Admin |Telnet server connect from 192.168.2.13
+000 days 00:02:31 E |Admin |Unknown user
+000 days 00:03:02 E |Admin |Last Admin message repeated 1 times.
+000 days 00:03:02 E |Admin |Unknown user



--
God bless our troops


Doctor Olds
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This may work:

»Efficient Networks Forum FAQ »How do I set/reset the 5100 FTP/Telnet Login and Password?


odinb

join:2001-11-26
Frisco, TX

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to odinb
Wayjac, Doctor Olds,

the 2 last posts was exactly what I neded to get this working.

This is the message Gabriel Strongs application for password reset gave me:
"Packet sent but not received".

This is what the SBC 5100B reports:
"SpeedStream Telnet Server

login: 123
password:
User logged in
xsh> cfg dsl{mode
mode = mult [mult,ansi,dmt,lite,dsl2,auto,ds2p,red2,emt]
xsh>"

Getting Telnet to work on the SBC 5100B required a factory reset, just like Wayjac reported.

So, Doctor Olds, does this mean it supports the same standards as the 4100?


Doctor Olds
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said by odinb:

This is what the SBC 5100B reports:
"SpeedStream Telnet Server

login: 123
password:
User logged in
xsh> cfg dsl{mode
mode = mult [mult,ansi,dmt,lite,dsl2,auto,ds2p,red2,emt]
xsh>"

Getting Telnet to work on the SBC 5100B required a factory reset, just like Wayjac reported.

So, Doctor Olds, does this mean it supports the same standards as the 4100?
What does the 4100 Telnet response show? You have to compare the 5100b modes to a 4100 modes (SBC versions) by the output to see if the units are identical or not.

Like I posted:

quote:
You can test the actual units if you have a 5100b and a 4100 (SBC versions) to work with. It will tell you in Telnet what modes are actually supported.
Regards,

Doctor Olds
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?


odinb

join:2001-11-26
Frisco, TX
reply to odinb
Well, I do not have the SBC 4100 yet (as stated earlier), it probably arrives in the mail in a couple of days. Signed up for AT&T DSL earlier in the week. Will report back when I get it.

By the way, what is the NAAM standard that you have on your modem?


Doctor Olds
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said by odinb:

By the way, what is the NAAM standard that you have on your modem?
I'm confused. I have a 5100. You may be thinking of the 6520 I used as an example, but I don't own one, it was from another post and I used it as an example in my post. I don't know what it means. The ones I know are listed below.


mult = MultiMode
ansi = ANSI T.413 [Std ADSL]
dmt = G.DMT [Std ADSL]
lite = G.Lite [Splitter-less ADSL]
dsl2 = ADSL2
auto = ????
ds2p = ADSL2+
red2 = Reach Extended ADSL2
naam = ????
emt = ????


Regards,

Doctor Olds

--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?

buggage
Premium
join:2002-11-28

1 recommendation

"auto" - Auto Mode
"naam" - No ANSI Auto mode
"emt" - Enhanced multimode


Doctor Olds
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said by buggage:

"auto" - Auto Mode
"naam" - No ANSI Auto mode
"emt" - Enhanced multimode
Thank you very much, kind sir!!
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?


d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
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1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to odinb
That SpeedStream 5200 FTP program also works for the AT&T (SBC)-versioned 4100 modem.

There is also SNMP info available once you have telnet/FTP access to these modems.


d_l
Barsoom
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join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
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1 edit
reply to Doctor Olds
So where can we find a CLI manual/summary for the 5100b/4100 modems? At least, something to give us a hint what some of the commands do before actually running them. I've explored many of them, but there are some that I've avoided for fear of messing up the firmware.

Can the cfg command be used to configure settings or does it only list settings? I answered my own question.


Doctor Olds
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said by d_l:

So where can we find a CLI manual/summary for the 5100b/4100 modems?
Good question. No answer for it though as Siemens/Efficient has not released anything. They have stated repeatedly that the CLI is supposedly intuitive.

It is part of a long list of broken promises.

Regards,

Doctor Olds
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?


d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
kudos:7
Thanks. The CLI commands for Efficient business routers are NOT the same as those for the "intuitive" CLI of the 4100.

Mostly it is intuitive! I've managed to figure out a few commands (for example, I changed one of the sntp servers and the timezone for the modem), but there are some I'd prefer to avoid until I know more about them. I stumbled into some reset configuration things that I probably shouldn't have tried.

I think I might be able to change the modem's IP and possibly its one DHCP address, but that may screw up the modem too.

The one thing that I haven't discovered is how to permanently change the login and password for telnet access. The modem may already have an existing login of "lanadmin", but the password is hidden.


Doctor Olds
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Read this whole thread for a possible FTP/Telnet fix.

»Need help with telnet access on 5200

Regards,

Doctor Olds


odinb

join:2001-11-26
Frisco, TX
reply to d_l
d_l what does the SBC 4100 return on the "cfg dsl{mode" command?


d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
kudos:7
This is extracted out of a cfg dump:
dsl
mode = mult [mult,ansi,dmt,lite,dsl2,auto,ds2p,red2,emt,]


odinb

join:2001-11-26
Frisco, TX

1 edit
Seems the SBC 4100 is pretty much the same as the SBC5100B, but in a new box. They seem to support the same DSL standards...

Thanks!


Doctor Olds
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Great detective work everyone. Did the command work to leave open FTP/Telnet after the SBC units are configured or not?

telnet 192.168.254.254 (user=efnu password=efnp)
cfg upro{usr{per=0xffffffff
cfg save
do reboot

Read »Need help with telnet access on 5200 for more info.

Regards,

Doctor Olds

--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?


d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
kudos:7
reply to odinb
download4100 MIB.txt 21,243 bytes
FWIW, here is the MIB for the 4100 that I walked out. I don't use SNMP that much so I don't know if this has anything of use in it. The MACs for my modem and router have been obfuscated


d_l
Barsoom
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join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
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1 edit
reply to odinb
OK! These are the commands to "permanently" assign a logon/password to the AT&T 4100 after you have entered it with a temporary login/password from the SpeedStream 5200 FTP program.

cfg upro#0{usr{un="logon"
cfg upro#0{usr{pw="password"
cfg upro#0{usr{per=0xffffffff
cfg save
do reboot

I can't say if any other upro# will work because I didn't try. The modem responds to the cfg save with a note that the settings are written to NVRAM.

Alternately the commands can be written as
cfg upro#0{usr{un="logon",pw="password",per=0xffffffff
cfg save
do reboot

If you don't like the settings you've changed, a hard reset apparently erases them all and restores the standard AT&T settings as does the command:
do defcfg

A command that you don't want to use is "do mfgdef" which makes the modem inaccessible on the 192.168.0.1 IP and (I'm guessing here) may restore an alternate configuration?

What info can you get out at the CLI that isn't available in the GUI? Well, "show dsl log" gives the following info:

17 seconds into current interval of 900 seconds

Time TxCrcErr TxFecErr RxCrcErr RxFecErr Los Sef LosSec SefSec ErrSec RxBlk TxBlk SNR Atten
00:30:02 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 53181 53181 23.5 30.5
00:15:02 2 34 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 51982 51982 23.5 30.5

Last hour 2 34 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 106164 106165 - -
xsh>

Edit: ... and there is a problem. Once you make a PPPoE connection even when using "PPP on computer" mode, you then are locked out of telnet access which requires a hard reset which loses the "permanent" login/password and all other configuration changes. ... uhh!


Doctor Olds
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2 edits
Click for full size
Strange as it works different on the Retail Firmware units and the 3 hidden upro# (User Profiles) are only available in Telnet or by Serial connections.

These are the three (3) hidden User Profiles in the 5x00/4x00 series.

upro#0
upro#1
upro#2

Then in the Retail Firmware units it shows the unhidden User Profiles that start at #3 internally, but show up as #0 to #5 on the Web Interface for a total of 8 User Profiles.

Regards,

Doctor Olds
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?

buggage
Premium
join:2002-11-28
Actually, unless I missed something, that's exactly the way it works on retail devices as well.

The hidden profiles can also be set so they show on the user profile page. Of course you do have to enable them to show from a Telnet session. The following is true for all profiles.

cfg upro#0{nl=[y/n] Profile won't/will appear in the login menu.
cfg upro#0{ne=[y/n] Profile won't/will appear in profile wizard page.

In later firmware there are actually up to 5 hidden profiles upro#0-4.