Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| reply to Mele20
Re: Microsoft Opening Up Vista Kernel To Security Vendors
said by Mele20  : and forces Microsoft's version of a pdf reader on us 1) How does Microsoft offering a new tool have even the slightest impact on whether you can install and run Acrobat?
2) When users have the native ability to create whatever Microsoft's PDFs are called, without having to spend money for a third-party solution (have you ever priced the Acrobat product that does this?), is this really such a bad thing?
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site |
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Verizon FIOS
| said by Steve :have you ever priced the Acrobat product that does this? Please try and keep up.
"Professional" operating system = $299 : exorbitant price, abuse of monopoly power.
"Professional" document production software = $199 : appropriate price for product of independent software vendor.
(As usual when discussing price, I have to make this clear: Of course I prefer lower prices. But what I'm interested in here is the perception that some prices are too high in principle.) |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
2 edits | said by dave :Please try and keep up. I think it's you who needs to keep up:
Windows XP Home = $209
Windows XP Professional = $309
Adobe Acrobat Standard = $285
Adobe Acrobat Professional = $425
(all prices retail from one representative vendor)
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site |
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon FIOS
| Hmm, I got my price for Acrobat Pro from a google-selected web retailer. They said it was the retail package. Looks a little suspicious that they're selling it for less than half what you quoted.
(Though of course your figures make my point even better: multifunction OS = price gouging, single application = fair price).
The XP Pro price is MS's list price. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to Steve
said by Steve :2) When users have the native ability to create whatever Microsoft's PDFs are called, without having to spend money for a third-party solution (have you ever priced the Acrobat product that does this?), is this really such a bad thing? The reader is free...so, no, I haven't tried to price a free product. 
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"
»www.ie7.com/ |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| said by Mele20 :The reader is free...so, no, I haven't tried to price a free product. Yes, the reader is free (and very good), but the software to create those PDFs you're reading for free is not - somebody else is spending money for the PDF writers.
Perhaps you have no need to create a PDF, but many many others do, and most of those resent having to spend hundreds of dollars for Adobe's software. True, there are third party programs that do PDF creation, but none of them are as good as Acrobat.
Should a company be allowed to give away a "free" tool if it's only to drive demand for its expensive software?
Steve
--
Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site |
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AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| said by Steve :. . Should a company be allowed to give away a "free" tool if it's only to drive demand for its expensive software? Steve Good question. I wonder what Microsoft's response to that would be? |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI | reply to Steve
I thought Microsoft was giving away a pdf reader not a tool to create PDF's. |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| said by Mele20 :I thought Microsoft was giving away a pdf reader not a tool to create PDF's. No. Microsoft has invented a new portable-document format, the XML Paper Specification (XPS), that is meant to compete head to head with PDF. Vista will ship with tools for reading and writing, and though I haven't really looked at the details, being based on XML looks to be a pretty big win for the open-standards folks - there are a LOT of tools that work with XML now.
There are a lot of unanswered questions about this:•Is the format actually any good?•Will people actually adopt it enough to drive demand?•Will the open source folks be able to produce/consume XPS documents?•What's the license look like?•Will this actually hurt Adobe?•(If "Yes") does this matter? If this takes off, consumer will have yet another useful tool included in the OS that they used to have to pay real money for.
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site |
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INHCNN
join:2001-12-15
Lansing, MI
| reply to dave
said by dave :"Professional" operating system = $299 : exorbitant price, abuse of monopoly power. "Professional" document production software = $199 : appropriate price for product of independent software vendor. How the heck is $300 exorbitant for an OS whereas $200 is appropriate for an application that you use a faction of the time that you're using the OS? Call me back when it's $20.
...and independant! That's like calling Sony Music an indie record label. Pfft.
oh... independant of M$. Got it. Nothing trumps blind hate for 'ol evil M$.
said by Steve :Perhaps you have no need to create a PDF, but many many others do, and most of those resent having to spend hundreds of dollars for Adobe's software. True, there are third party programs that do PDF creation, but none of them are as good as Acrobat. True that. In fact, there's a fourth party market for apps that convert PDF to DOC. But guess what? Adobe's going to force (sarcasim) their PDF to DOC converter in version 8 (it's one of the new features). So, so far as MS being "unfair" to PDF by being the bigger fish and offering a competitive product, Adobe is doing the same thing to companies smaller than they. Big bank takes little bank.
Wow, talk about OT. Good job Mele. 
--
"Pressure makes diamonds."
--General George S. Patton |
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon FIOS
| said by INHCNN :How the heck is $300 exorbitant for an OS whereas $200 is appropriate for an application that you use a faction of the time that you're using the OS? Uh, I think your sarcasm sensors need immediate adjustment.
I assumed it would be obvious that I was ridiculing a viewpoint that is prevalent in this forum. |
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astirusty
Premium
join:2000-12-23
Henderson, NV
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to Mele20
said by Mele20 :said by Steve :2) When users have the native ability to create whatever Microsoft's PDFs are called, without having to spend money for a third-party solution (have you ever priced the Acrobat product that does this?), is this really such a bad thing? The reader is free...so, no, I haven't tried to price a free product. Maybe -- Windows Vista should be free; just like Adobe's PDF reader?
Let MS make money charging for the tools to create your own version of Windows Vista, similar to how Adobe charges for the tools to create your own PDF documents. |
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