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 rloconeHonor Our Heros, Our Armed ForcesPremium
join:2002-04-10
Kokomo, IN | [HSI] 2 modems? Hello All!
On 10/19 Tech #8537 came and installed a 2nd modem here at my apartment. I quested him as to why a 2nd modem is used and why not replace it. He installed an Arris TM502G, this modem can handle both internet and VOIP. Other providers such as TWC are using their modem in this fashion, why not Charter? So for incoming internet service I have a Scientific Atlanta's WebStar DXP110, and for VOIP is the Arris. If you ask me this unnecessary overhead.
On the Webstar I can't access the Signal, status and log screen. Asked the Tech about this. His reply, Oh, you don't need to go into those screens. There of no use to you! All of the info you don't understand and won't use."
All he did was comment me on having a 10meg connection and how expensive it was and why did I have it? By this time I was getting pissed with him. I called and complained to my direct sales rep. Sounds to me like he was jealous of me having a 10meg connection. Here in Newport TN, you don't see too much of 10meggers around here. That was part of his reaction.
Anyways, to make a long story short, how can I ACCESS the Arris? I tried 192.168.100.1 but that is for DXP110. I tried 100.2 no response. So I probed the entire 100.xxx for a hit, nothing.
Thanks,
--
Star Fleet HDQ / SFO
- Admiral Ross
»www.stb575.com | | |
|
| Yes with Charter you need to separate modems. One for the internet and one for your phone service. There is no know access page to see your arris levels. The levels can be checked on our end at the office. The reason for not using the arris for both was not really explained to us techs, so no real information for you there. | |
 neofateCaveat DepascorPremium
join:2003-11-11
Birmingham, AL
 ·Charter
1 edit | reply to rlocone
Often a dedicated Telephony Modem, and a HSI Modem are used so you will not be sharing bandwidth among both services. IE: The provisioning on the Arris will be something like 384/128 or less, but will only be used by the voice communications , and nothing from the HSI end of your use will effect your telephone communications.
As for the Diagnostic -- As far as I know, it is the same as a typical cable modem, 192.168.100.1 -- You just might be having trouble pulling the diag screens up because it isn't on your LAN, or hooked into your computer. It is dedicated for the phone system.
If you hooked a Cat5 (From a PC) to the modem, you should be able to pull diagnostics off of it. *Though, I am unfamiliar with the Arris,.. so this is just a guess* -- I read a few people , on this forum, say they accessed theirs.. IE: »[CDV] What people think
Somewhere mid way through they mention it.
Take care,
--
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced. | |
 psafuxPremium,VIP
join:2005-11-10
kudos:2 | i thought i had heard somewhere that you cant access the internal pages of voip modems provided by charter.
--
Yes. the cat in my avatar is indeed mine. | |
neofateCaveat DepascorPremium
join:2003-11-11
Birmingham, AL Reviews:
·Charter
| said by psafux:i thought i had heard somewhere that you cant access the internal pages of voip modems provided by charter. Well I just heard it in this thread.. hehe -- though I've heard otherwise. It is quite possible, because it isn't really necessary on the customer end, though it would be handy even for a diagnostic approach for a service call on premise.
Just curious -- Is there any particular reason you want to access the telephony modem? I understand sheer curiosity, but if it is working well, then all is well.  -- Sort of on the premise, if you can think of your Telephone like a Bell company, Twisted pair/Cat5, pots, or whatnot line that just "works",..
Most I can dig up are the Specs on the modem itself, which looks fairly well made.
502 Specs
--
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced. | |
rloconeHonor Our Heros, Our Armed ForcesPremium
join:2002-04-10
Kokomo, IN | reply to bobafett86
The tech had no clue as the why the set it up like that. The tech guys in my area need some updated training or something. Most of your run of the mill customers never ask question like these.
I dont even see voice traffic going over the wire. Id like to monitor how much VOIP traffic is generated. Keep logs and traffic graphs. | |
rloconeHonor Our Heros, Our Armed ForcesPremium
join:2002-04-10
Kokomo, IN | reply to rlocone
Just thought of something. I have a listing of all my networks ips and mac addresses in a spreadsheet. I noticed that the Arris isn't in there. So I updated the list accordingly. I found the mac for the MTA, that is what the phone uses. I can now do a filter for this mac.
Question: What is and the difference btw them:
EMAC, CMAC? The Arris only uses the MTA-MAC, right?
--
Star Fleet HDQ / SFO
- Admiral Ross
»www.stb575.com | |
 stivvyTechnonerd
join:2002-05-08 | Most likely the CMAC is the cable MAC ID.
EMAC would be the Ethernet MAC ID if it was being used for dual purpose.
MTA MAC is the connection that receives the IP address in the phone modem. The Multimedia Terminal Adapter (MTA).
As far as the bandwidth they are provisioned for, it is 384/128. It runs on a separate network within Charter, so it won't be visible to a cable modem- or at least it shouldn't be. | |
rloconeHonor Our Heros, Our Armed ForcesPremium
join:2002-04-10
Kokomo, IN | that's why the tech put a splitter to begin with. So, in this setup you don't overrun your VOIP. Example, you run P2P, clients are eating up your upload. There goes chopping VOIP. I can see the logic in all. It's just another 7db on the splitter and creating more signal noise on the line. Look at this way that 2 modems for every customer who has internet/voip. Wouldn't what be more overhead on the UBR?
--
Star Fleet HDQ / SFO
- Admiral Ross
»www.stb575.com | |
neofateCaveat DepascorPremium
join:2003-11-11
Birmingham, AL Reviews:
·Charter
| You make good points with the extra equipment when the technology is most certainly here to utilize one modem to handle both duties. Separating the VOIP and HSI through QOS techniques. Yes adding any other device is going to add a bit more attenuation to your signal if you don't happen to already have an extra port on your current setup.
Though, generally, if your signals are good at the time of implementation it shouldn't have a negative effect on the other devices you utilize. If you are already borderline in areas, I can see the potential concern.
As for overhead on the Universal Broadband Router -- The Telephony is operating on a separate network, and this is pure guess work -- But I would imagine that several configurations can exist among that network.
Possibly utilizing another uBR for the telephony portion of the network, as not to create overload for a pre-designed uBR for HSI. Or, which I believe is more common, to upgrade the existing uBR to handle the load of both Telephony and HSI Data.
Also, with packet techniques, I have *heard* VOIP traffic gets priority over your standard HSI.
Though, I don't believe there is a unanimous standard across the board for all KMA's .. It is probably more of a case by case basis, and how the markets load currently is.
In regards to chopping VOIP -- that is , partially, the reason for the secondary device. I would imagine with a data device dedicated soley to your Telephony,.. it would not only be easier to provision and keep track of in the databases of the MSO.. but also being on a separate network path, not be effected by the local CPE, such as your HSI CM. IE: P2P load, cutting into your bandwidth for Telephony. That Telephony bandwidth remains untouched regardless of how much you max your Cable modem for HSI.
I'm not sure if you were insinuating that the splitter itself was preventing the two to interact but the splitter is just a means to create another path for the new device to receive and send data on. It does not change the dynamics of traffic flow. (I am not saying this is what you meant for sure, just clarifying in case).
Again, I don't think the MSO intends for the Customer to monitor the traffic/signals etc of the Telephony system.. But with a bit of determination, that you have, I wouldn't put it past you to figure out how to tap into the "read-only" data. 
--
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced. | |
rloconeHonor Our Heros, Our Armed ForcesPremium
join:2002-04-10
Kokomo, IN | thanks for clearing some things up. As you point out read only data. I have no wish to manipulate the data just monitor it. I'm aware that the EQUIPMENT belongs to Charter unless I purchase my own. However, their EQUIPMENT is encompassed in MY network. So, I feel I have the right to be able to monitor it. If an when I get around to it, I'll setup a system to let me know when it goes down and recovers(Alerts, Port triggers, IDS, IPS) If any service or device fails 3 consecutive times an admin alert is generated to my cell phone. This stands for servers, workstation and routers.
I'm already working on installing a Network tap and integrate it into my network. The tap will be used to monitor downstream/upstream within the confines of my network.
*** This is all for security & user AWARENESS ***
--
Star Fleet HDQ / SFO
- Admiral Ross
»www.stb575.com | |
stivvyTechnonerd
join:2002-05-08 | Actually the equipment exists on CHarter's network. It does not interact with your network in any way, shape or form. The ARRIS modem reports to a completely different UBR and does not have a public IP address. Instead it has a network address that exists solely on Charter's network.
There is no activity that you should be able to monitor. It has no connection to the Internet, only to Charter's network.
Integrating it into your network may cause issues with both sides of the operation, especially if you end up bridging two networks that are meant, by design, to remain separate. In fact you may even open yourself up to more of a security risk by doing what you propose.
The only thing that Charter's EQUIPMENT does is take up space in your home. It never touches, nor ist it meant to, touch YOUR network- unless you make it do that, of course. | |
rloconeHonor Our Heros, Our Armed ForcesPremium
join:2002-04-10
Kokomo, IN | Maybe you misunderstood me. The tap was to be integrated into my network my own equipment which lays on the LAN side not the WAN side. So the Arris would have like a 10.xxx. My ultimate goal is to learn how all of these devices/services work and interact. Being an educated consumer is a better consumer. | |
stivvyTechnonerd
join:2002-05-08 | If the modem is connected to Charter using a coax connection then it isn't on your network.
How exactly is this on your network? Is it connected using ethernet? Because if you are speking of it as being connected to your network simply because they sharer a coax connection on a cable tv line then that is an incorrect assumption.
From: »adserv.charter.com/Visitors/Supp···Internet
Does Charter Telephone service work the same way as traditional phone service?
Inside the customer’s home, the only difference is that Charter Telephone does not work with rotary phones. Outside the customer’s home, we take advantage of state-of-the-art broadband technology and, in most areas, Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) technology. This allows us to deliver crystal-clear calls and advanced calling features.
« Back to Top
Are Charter Telephone calls routed across the Internet?
No. Charter keeps the calls on our private broadband network until our switch delivers the call on the PSTN (public switched telephone network). Calls are just as secure with Charter as with any other telephone provider. | |
rloconeHonor Our Heros, Our Armed ForcesPremium
join:2002-04-10
Kokomo, IN | I see it this way the EQUIPMENT is generating traffic that comes into to my network (HSI). Traffic is also generated inside my network and leaves over the WAN. I feel I'm responsible for any and all traffic that is WITH the boundaries of my network. As most of you pointed out the VOIP doesn't cross into my network. I can live with that.
Here is an example. If you run and share WIFI in your neighborhood and all of your buddies are sharing off the connection from you. Later a stranger parks his car on the side of the road and uses your connection. This dude downloads child porn, does a lil hacking, steals credit card numbers. The courts will hold you responsible for this "dude's" actions. Why? Because it happened within the confines of your network.
Also, I want to know what my step son is up too. There are way too many sexual predators out there looking for innocent kids to pray upon. I don't want my son to be a statistic. Also, my fiance always have family over and company. The PUBLIC computer is in the living room. I need to know who and why and what they are doing.
With WIFI becoming more and more popular everyone is getting one. Many people leave the defaults on. No such security there. Wardriving is another area of increased activity. So setting up IDS, IPS, SPI all work in your favor.
--
Star Fleet HDQ / SFO
- Admiral Ross
»www.stb575.com | |
| reply to rlocone
I skipped over the last 6 posts so I hope this wasn't covered. The forward frequencies for the Data Modem and Voice modem are 6 db or one channel away from each other. Helps with the traffic and bandwidth. So that is probably why the two separate devices. Unless the arris is able to run both incoming frequencies. | |
neofateCaveat DepascorPremium
join:2003-11-11
Birmingham, AL Reviews:
·Charter
| said by bobafett86:I skipped over the last 6 posts so I hope this wasn't covered. The forward frequencies for the Data Modem and Voice modem are 6 db or one channel away from each other. Helps with the traffic and bandwidth. So that is probably why the two separate devices. Unless the arris is able to run both incoming frequencies. It was covered indirectly as was mentioned that Telephony uses a different network and is otherwise apart from your HSI. It is general knowledge to those who know a bit of how these systems work that Telephony and HSI , in the realms of Charter, are separated completely. To do so, they utilize a different band, and thus frequency(s), to not only keep interference at bay, but to provide the additional Bandwidth in the separate "Channel" for Telephony. Even though Telephony is significantly lower overall bandwidth compared to the potentials of HSI, it uses a decent portion of its allotted bandwidth and somewhat must be accounted for X amount of available bandwidth at all times, a more stringent standard than that of your general HSI Cable Modem. The separate band you speak of provides that, plus they aren't pulling from the same channels available data pool.
As for the capability of the Arris handling both frequencies.. I am fairly certain that this model is a 'Telephony Modem' alone, and does not have the capacity to hold two bands of data at one time. IE: Use the same device, being the Arris, to serve your Highspeed and Telephony at once... Being connected on two different networks, on 4 separate frequencies (2 up, 2 down), to keep them completely apart.
It is designed for Telephony in mind, though is , obviously, a Cablemodem with Telephony subsets/features and ports/software. Similar yet different.
Though of course to place a HSI Cable Modem, and Telephony Modem in one "Box" would surely be possible.. It would just require basically placing the internals of both inside a casing, and having the appropriate ports for all.
However, as was mentioned, Telephone service, by Charter, is intended to be as close to 'hands off' as your typical POTS, or standard land line from a Telco would be. So the separate device implementation is desired for that , among many others already pointed, reason(s).
Bobfett, you make an interesting point about the Bands.. I wasn't thinking of that, but now that you pointed it out, I'm like.. Ah, right.. I knew they operated on different frequency's, though a frequency range can be in the same band.. I would imagine , as you say, the range of the Telephony Modems frequencies is far enough apart to fall into a different channel. (Though still similar to your traditional Cable modem in the general range) -- Up stream in the low end, and Down stream in the higher end.
admiral, and Stivy -- I think , Admiral,.. Stivy is simply trying to make the point that the Telephony modem, while in your house, has nothing to do with your network in any way , shape , or form. It is connected to Charters network via Coax, and your home via a power cord. It shares no wireless properties,.. thus it is not on your network AT all. Furthermore, to monitor the device, you would have to attach it to a network you own, minimally in a single PC-Ethernet platform thus making it part of your network.. --
I've heard both ways of whether or whether the Signal information/diags can be accessed by a modem generated webserver.. and I am now leaning towards the side of that you cannot. I've seen no direct documentation indicating it functions in that manner, as it is not intended to be monitored by the consumer. Though, being on the closed network of Charter Com, it is of course able to be monitored remotely, securely.. IE: From the headend/uBR stats, et al.
On the general side of things -- It is something you are paying for, and it is in your "home", so it is really there for you to do with what you want. Your never gonna be able to be denied access to anything in "your" residence.. It just isn't possible in a court of law. So do with it what you feel you must -- Though I am uncertain of how you are going to monitor the device without placing external equipment between the paths currently in place.. IE: Between Telephony Modem and Telephone Interface, or from Coax to TM. (The latter requiring equipment somewhat uncommon) --
Basically, the TM is going to have similar statistics and signals to your cable modem, and digital channels operating on similar frequencies and modulations. The TM is less apt to have connection issues, though, a large enough RF issue on the Coax will indeed drop the TM as well as the CM. Though if the CM's network is having problems it does not mean the TM's network is having problems automatically.
It sort of runs along the lines of whether home owners are 'allowed' to access the diagnostic pages of their DCT's.. I am completely for people taking a look at the data,.. though I've had a Technician claim that Customers are not *allowed* or *supposed* to access the signal levels.. Then his boss ask me for certain levels off the same piece of equipment.
You are absolutely in the right with the read-only.. If you feel the urge to monitor the information, and can figure out a way to safely/securely do so, then I see no problem.. And your motive is not to change it, nor is it even really easily possible. Though I suppose many can question "why" someone would want to do so --
Though, this equipment is not generating traffic that comes into your "HSI" Network, and although it is technically leaving out the same path the "other" HSI data is traveling on (the coax),.. it is for all practical purposes a entirely separate entity, joined only by the same method of travel, being the Piece of Copper/steel in the center of that RG Cable.
Now monitoring the HSI Network is an entirely different ballgame, and I agree with you 100% on keeping your Wireless network secure.
--
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced. | |
afau
join:2005-06-07
Merchantville, NJ | reply to rlocone
Admiral To the best of my knowledge only one DOCSIS devcie per LAN can be accessed at 192.168.100.1 DOCSIS standards requrie that the DOCSIS device act like a DHCP server on the subnet of 192.168.100 whenever no other DHCP services are available It also requires that the DHCP service cease whenever another DHCP server is serving the LAN | |
| reply to bobafett86
Is anything really ever explained to a Charter tech?
Anyway...the funny thing is that the Arris company was astonished to find charter did not want to use one modem for everything...but charters thinking goes something like " well is the customer moves ...we leave the Arris in the house and the next tennant will get Charter"......
I know it's confusing logic but we are used to it.
hehe | |
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