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DevilDog3

join:2005-05-13
Albany, NY

What's next....

I guess next they're going to request that only they get to speak at the trial also. The defendant can't say anything.

What are they afraid of with having an independent third party check out the hard drives? Maybe that someone will actually prove they have no idea what they're doing?


phattieg

join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

said by DevilDog3 See Profile :

I guess next they're going to request that only they get to speak at the trial also. The defendant can't say anything.

What are they afraid of with having an independent third party check out the hard drives? Maybe that someone will actually prove they have no idea what they're doing?
I think they need to consider services like X-Drive. I know better these days.
--
SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1.


technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA
reply to DevilDog3
The Truth shall set the defendant free and prove what dumb idiots the RIAA investigators are.

Remember folks, use Truecrypt for everything!!!


Pirate515
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY

said by technick See Profile :

Remember folks, use TrueCrypt for everything!!!
Great idea, but when you get dragged to court and the examiner finds out that your hard drive is encrypted, you'll be asked to provide a key to access it, and if you refuse, you'll be charged with obstruction of justice for withholding evidence.
--
Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill...


karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..

Not exactly true. If you use truecrypt, you can give them a fake key, which won't really decrypt the drive, but will mount the volume. The prosecutor will have no proof you didn't give the real key however.

Encryption is always your best friend. Learn it, Use it, because when the jack booted republican neo-con right wing christian conservatives decide that YOU can't have porn on your computer, it will be your ass you save by having encrypted your data.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 10mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.


thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY


1 edit
said by karlmarx See Profile :

because when the jack booted republican neo-con right wing christian conservatives
Okay, that's enough sugar for one day...


ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
reply to karlmarx
You can use all the encryption tools in tho world. It only takes the right professional a few moments (sometimes days) to discover the proper key(s).


81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA

reply to Pirate515
said by Pirate515 See Profile :

said by technick See Profile :

Remember folks, use TrueCrypt for everything!!!
Great idea, but when you get dragged to court and the examiner finds out that your hard drive is encrypted, you'll be asked to provide a key to access it, and if you refuse, you'll be charged with obstruction of justice for withholding evidence.
You can't be forced to provide evidence against your self. So no it will not be obstruction of justice


Pirate515
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY


4 edits
reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx See Profile :

Not exactly true. If you use TrueCrypt, you can give them a fake key, which won't really decrypt the drive, but will mount the volume. The prosecutor will have no proof you didn't give the real key, however.
So how exactly does it work? If you enter the wrong key, the drive just shows up empty? If that's the case, then anyone with some common sense would suspect foul play right away.

What I would like to see are a combination of keys that determine what you can and cannot view. For example, one master key to see everything on the drive, with option of specifying other keys, each one of them with capability of hiding certain types of files/folders. Even with that scenario if you get an examiner who knows how to use his/her brain, they can still catch you. For example, they are looking at a drive that according to manufacturer's specs is 200 GB. The visible data on that drive takes up 100 GB, and the OS reports that you have 50 GB available. What happened to the other 50 GB? Of course, it would take a person who pays attention to details to figure this out, but it's not impossible as you can see.

said by karlmarx See Profile :

Encryption is always your best friend. Learn it, Use it, because when the jack booted republican neo-con right wing christian conservatives decide that YOU can't have porn on your computer, it will be your ass you save by having encrypted your data.
Good point, but if you use the logic of these Republican neo-con right-wing Christian conservatives that you speak of, the sole fact that you are using encryption automatically makes you a criminal. In their view, honest, law-abiding and God-fearing citizens have nothing to hide and would freely submit to any kind of search without questioning the authorities, even if they've never done anything wrong. According to beliefs of these individuals, if you are hiding something and/or are questioning their policies and/or actions, then you must be up to no good and probably are doing something illegal.
--

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill...

Necronomikro

join:2005-09-01

said by Pirate515 See Profile :

said by karlmarx See Profile :

Not exactly true. If you use TrueCrypt, you can give them a fake key, which won't really decrypt the drive, but will mount the volume. The prosecutor will have no proof you didn't give the real key, however.
So how exactly does it work? If you enter the wrong key, the drive just shows up empty? If that's the case, then anyone with some common sense would suspect foul play right away.
A single "file" can have two volumes in it, and the second volume is entirely optional and undetectable, since it is attached at the end of the file, and goes backwards. When you create a volume, it fills the volume with random data, which is what the second volume would look like without the decrypt key.


dispatcher21

join:2004-01-22
united state
reply to karlmarx
Please move to China, Cuba, N Korea, Iran, take a pick. You will be begging to come back.


dispatcher21

join:2004-01-22
united state

reply to 81399672
Giving the key to decrypt the drive is not considered giving evidence to incriminate yourself. The actual evidence is on the hard drive and the questions of ownership is what you can decline to answer on 5th amendment rights. Its like the whole ID thing. If you have a warrant and a cop asks you for ID, you can not refuse to give it just because you would be incriminating yourself, the Supreme court just ruled you have to provide ID. To me, the same logic for a decrypt key. The key is not the evidence to incriminate you, whats on the hard drive is.


81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA

said by dispatcher21 See Profile :

Giving the key to decrypt the drive is not considered giving evidence to incriminate yourself. The actual evidence is on the hard drive and the questions of ownership is what you can decline to answer on 5th amendment rights. Its like the whole ID thing. If you have a warrant and a cop asks you for ID, you can not refuse to give it just because you would be incriminating yourself, the Supreme court just ruled you have to provide ID. To me, the same logic for a decrypt key. The key is not the evidence to incriminate you, whats on the hard drive is.
ID and providing key to my encryption file is totally different. By giving me a key to file encrypted on my computer=my computer and me giving cops key= incriminating my self

NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx See Profile :

Encryption is always your best friend. Learn it, Use it, because when the jack booted republican neo-con right wing christian conservatives decide that YOU can't have porn on your computer, it will be your ass you save by having encrypted your data.
Also, when those jack-booted democrat neo-lib left wing atheist liberals decide that YOU can't have scripture depicting certain "protected activities" as immoral on your computer, as well.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


kaisa
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Glen Ellyn, IL
clubs:
reply to 81399672
I dont think it works by association like that...

but then again, this is DSLR...and we are hardly experts on sticky legal topics such as this.


Rogue Wolf
Is Kind Of A Big Deal In Yemen

join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY
·RoadRunner Cable

reply to NormanS
said by NormanS See Profile :

said by karlmarx See Profile :

Encryption is always your best friend. Learn it, Use it, because when the jack booted republican neo-con right wing christian conservatives decide that YOU can't have porn on your computer, it will be your ass you save by having encrypted your data.
Also, when those jack-booted democrat neo-lib left wing atheist liberals decide that YOU can't have scripture depicting certain "protected activities" as immoral on your computer, as well.
Well, it's good to know we all at least agree on the jack boots.
--
Let not the Demon in your thoughts.
Let not the Demon in your dreams.
Lest you should awake one morn,
And find the Demon within thee.


ForgotMyNick

@optonline.net

reply to 81399672
There was a case a little while back where someone had there hard drive seized by the police, when they discovered it was encrypted with PGP they got a court order for the keys/password to decrypt it and the owner refused. So the judge jailed him for contempt of court. Can't remember for how long and i never read a followup that told what the outcome was.


hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12

reply to dispatcher21
said by dispatcher21 See Profile :

Please move to China, Cuba, N Korea, Iran, take a pick.
Since you seem to dislike folks who value their liberty and privacy why not take your own advice?

said by dispatcher21 See Profile :

Giving the key to decrypt the drive is not considered giving evidence to incriminate yourself. The actual evidence is on the hard drive and the questions of ownership is what you can decline to answer on 5th amendment rights. Its like the whole ID thing. If you have a warrant and a cop asks you for ID, you can not refuse to give it just because you would be incriminating yourself, the Supreme court just ruled you have to provide ID. To me, the same logic for a decrypt key. The key is not the evidence to incriminate you, whats on the hard drive is.
In that case next time I get carded I'll just show my PGP keys.

Turning over any pass phrase could indeed be self incriminating if the pass phrase in question is a confession to a crime one has committed.
--
Where's Jesus?
Dear Jesus!


hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12

reply to ctceo
said by ctceo See Profile :

It only takes the right professional a few moments (sometimes days) to discover the proper key(s).
Nonsense. A few days after how many eons?
--
Where's Jesus?
Dear Jesus!

NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

reply to hpguru
said by hpguru See Profile :

Turning over any pass phrase could indeed be self incriminating if the pass phrase in question is a confession to a crime one has committed.
So could turning over the keys to your safe deposit box, or letting the cops into your house to search for evidence.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
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