KrK
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| reply to john262
Re: He could be right
said by john262  :Come on, give me a break. I wish that BBR could be non political and just stick to tech issues. This constant left wing drum beat in this forum is getting tiresome. Joseph Goebbels said "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." It seems common practice these days for right to constantly attack everything as "left-wing" in order to cover up the fact that really there's mostly far right spin on everything. Luckily most postings on BBR news seem pretty fair and balanced; but the replies, oh man. They jam the rudder at hard-to-starboard and increase speed to flank.
No wonder it just goes around in circles.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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broadbander
join:2005-07-21
Brooklyn, NY
| said by KrK :said by john262 :Come on, give me a break. I wish that BBR could be non political and just stick to tech issues. This constant left wing drum beat in this forum is getting tiresome. Joseph Goebbels said "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." It seems common practice these days for right to constantly attack everything as "left-wing" in order to cover up the fact that really there's mostly far right spin on everything. Luckily most postings on BBR news seem pretty fair and balanced; but the replies, oh man. They jam the rudder at hard-to-starboard and increase speed to flank. No wonder it just goes around in circles. Explain to me how CNN is "far right." |
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KrK
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| said by broadbander :Explain to me how CNN is "far right." Spin. Far-right spin. How does a network like CNN contribute to this? Easy. The Administration issues a statement. CNN repeats it back as fact. End of story. No digging into it, no verification, just parrots it back as news. Since the Administration was spinning it in the first place you basically have CNN reporting the spin as fact.
You see examples of this type of "News Reporting" all the time. Corporation XYZ announces a new factory in China, while closing factories here. Corporation XYZ says issues a statement saying they must do this to remain competitive, and the Talking Head just parrots it back as if it was fact. There's not even really any attempt to dig into such statements to find the truth. It's just blindly reported as fact.
When AOL bought Time-Warner CNN went downhill fast.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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broadbander
join:2005-07-21
Brooklyn, NY
| said by KrK :said by broadbander :Explain to me how CNN is "far right." Spin. Far-right spin. How does a network like CNN contribute to this? Easy. The Administration issues a statement. CNN repeats it back as fact. End of story. No digging into it, no verification, just parrots it back as news. Since the Administration was spinning it in the first place you basically have CNN reporting the spin as fact. You see examples of this type of "News Reporting" all the time. Corporation XYZ announces a new factory in China, while closing factories here. Corporation XYZ says issues a statement saying they must do this to remain competitive, and the Talking Head just parrots it back as if it was fact. There's not even really any attempt to dig into such statements to find the truth. It's just blindly reported as fact. When AOL bought Time-Warner CNN went downhill fast. I believed the same thing in college. I now feel that the parroting of press releases is not as important as it used to be for "right" spin. For example, if a liberal administration is in power, doesn't the media simply parrot them? Or are we proposing that liberal administrations in America aren't really liberal (i.e. not communist).
No one reasonable wants a far-leftist any more than the want a fascist. So those kind of extremes are typically shunned by the media (though they are relatively embraced in corporate faces, Fox on the fascist side, CNN on the communist side).
I truly think that the commentators and the kind of shows a network presents go further to determining political edge than the press releases that get by. CNN reports plenty of stories that contradict the current administration, and indeed seem to lust over dubious polls and numbers that directly contradict our own reports in Iraq.
I don't think that CNN went downhill when they were bought out. Perhaps they've added some more filters to the bias, though certainly not in the coverage I've seen. |
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Karl Bode
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4 edits | quote:
So those kind of extremes are typically shunned by the media (though they are relatively embraced in corporate faces, Fox on the fascist side, CNN on the communist side).
I don't believe this is accurate. I don't see political reality as a sliding scale with extremes at each end and the media accurately portraying information from the middle. I believe this is largely an illusion gestated to foster divisions in the populace.
I see Ann Coulter on every channel on my television set. I rarely see intelligent progressive opinion. I occasionally see Democrat positions, but these two are not the same. At least not anymore. When I see Democrats talk, they're generally pandering to social moderates, and only recently decided they don't like war (as the polls switched).
The mainstream media by and large shuns humanist or progressive viewpoints, because they frequently focus on the idiocy of rabid consumerism, the futility and idiocy of un-necessary war, and other concepts.
In fact, humanism positions, which by and large the public supports, are not espoused on cable network news because they run contrary to the concept of trying to sell people vehicles and hemorrhoidal creams.
As Chomsky notes, it is true that both parties and the corporate controlled media are further right of where the general public stands (humanist). There's simply plenty of noise, lying, and propaganda that makes things appear otherwise. |
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Maxo
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| Karl Bode , that's the way I see it. Actually, on TV I don't see any intelligent left or right discussion. The only place I can find anything close to this is on NPR. Why NPR can find intelligent liberals and conservative and nobody else is beyond me. |
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broadbander
join:2005-07-21
Brooklyn, NY
1 edit | reply to Karl Bode
As Chomsky notes, it is true that both parties and the corporate controlled media are further right of where the general public stands (humanist). There's simply plenty of noise, lying, and propaganda that makes things appear otherwise.
Humanism is not in opposition to "right-wing." Government control of industry is. Humanism can be reasonably integrated into right-wing ideology and in fact, I would contend is more likely to be found there than on the left when the philosophical particulars have been cleared out (regardless of what seems to be the case based on political pandering and apparent demographics).
EDIT: I should add that the Democratic party is certainly not right of what most people believe in. Most people in America believe in rugged individualism and have for a century plus. |
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Karl Bode
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| The reality is that via the use of propaganda, both parties pretend to cater to the humanist will of the people, but really serve one master at this point: corporate dollars.
"Right" and "Left" at this point are meaningless tags. Issues like abortion and gay marriage are brought up to play on fears and then dropped so that the real course can be followed.
The right to make money is now a national security issue. It's a paradigm that dominates both parties. Any threat to that (and humanism is a threat to that) is a position you won't see espoused frequently on the nightly news.
I don't understand how Democrats have cornered the market on "rugged individualism"; sounds like more divisive rhetoric. |
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broadbander
join:2005-07-21
Brooklyn, NY
| said by Karl Bode :The reality is that via the use of propaganda, both parties pretend to cater to the humanist will of the people, but really serve one master at this point: corporate dollars. "Right" and "Left" at this point are meaningless tags. Issues like abortion and gay marriage are brought up to play on fears and then dropped so that the real course can be followed. The right to make money is now a national security issue. It's a paradigm that dominates both parties. Any threat to that (and humanism is a threat to that) is a position you won't see espoused frequently on the nightly news. I don't understand how Democrats have cornered the market on "rugged individualism"; sounds like more divisive rhetoric. Rugged individualism is a conservative ideal, currently not being paraded by either party. The right to make money is a big part of what America is about. |
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Karl Bode
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| quote:
Rugged individualism is a conservative ideal, currently not being paraded by either party. The right to make money is a big part of what America is about.
The right to make money no matter what the repercussions are is also a big part of what America is about. I still contend that these traditional political divisions you hold to at this point are little more than rhetoric and propaganda.
Look at any political debate over what Ann Coulter says for evidence that political discourse in this country is really just a stage-show while we the government works to eliminate your righta and focus on its only real goal: improve corporate revenue.
And the first person to claim I'm "against making money" gets a bonk on the head.  |
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Maxo
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| reply to broadbander
said by broadbander :Rugged individualism is a conservative ideal, currently not being paraded by either party. The right to make money is a big part of what America is about. I don't view individualism and the right to make money as necessarily the same thing.
I see individualism and the right to make money as two separate products of enlightenmentism. |
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KrK
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| reply to Karl Bode
Karl has hit it on the head here. He's phrased it more precisely then I did.
What I see a lot of is the media shunning anything that could cause them to be labeled as "Liberal media". It's like they are afraid to be painted with that brush. They of course WILL throw up controversial or hot button issues, and love to flash graphs of opinion polls or someone outraged over this or that scandal.
But do you see anyone actually addressing some real issues? Hardly ever, if at all.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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Karl Bode
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| Just look at what's being discussed as we approach our elections.
Who is a bigger war-coward, who diddles kids, is Michael J Fox not taking his Parkinsons meds, etc.
No discussion of corporate control, no real discussion of government intrusion into privacy, no real discussion of the war frankly, either.
Propaganda has people bickering over inane crap when we're really all on the same side (humanism). |
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KrK
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| Exactly. What's the biggest issue of the day?
Republicans:"Kerry insulted our Military men and women!"
Kerry: "Did not!"
Republicans: "Did too!"
Kerry: "Did not!"
and then the news channels convene panels of talking heads to discuss... Was it/Wasn't... Apologize/No Apologize etc etc blah blah blah crapola crapola crapola
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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broadbander
join:2005-07-21
Brooklyn, NY
| said by KrK :Exactly. What's the biggest issue of the day? Republicans:"Kerry insulted our Military men and women!" Kerry: "Did not!" Republicans: "Did too!" Kerry: "Did not!" and then the news channels convene panels of talking heads to discuss... Was it/Wasn't... Apologize/No Apologize etc etc blah blah blah crapola crapola crapola That list should with "Kerry says x" since he provoked his own demise. |
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