Blackened
Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29 | reply to mesmerMAN
Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business
It's definitely a good thing.
Now all they need to do is start instituting muni broadband nationwide and we'll truly see how competitive AT&T really is.  |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | It's not competition if you can use the force of gov't and limitless cash flow to run the other guys outof town.
How about we have some gov't run stores, auto dealers, etc and see how well thatgoes over. |
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Blackened
Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29
| said by bogey780  :It's not competition if you can use the force of gov't and limitless cash flow to run the other guys outof town. How about we have some gov't run stores, auto dealers, etc and see how well thatgoes over. The people have spoken, and in nearly every vote that's come up for muni broadband it's passed. Considering the corporations can't get broadband to every person in a state or city they service, and don't care to, it needs to be done in some other fashion.
You gave a very presumptuous analogy, since broadband is not a consumer good, but a vital information service. It is why many cities are deciding to go with muni, and much more to come. Heck, I'd sure like the surrounding cities here to go muni too. |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :It's not competition if you can use the force of gov't and limitless cash flow to run the other guys outof town. How about we have some gov't run stores, auto dealers, etc and see how well thatgoes over. If there was no other stores, auto dealers, etc. in the area then why shouldn't the community be allowed to band together to provide one?
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"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| reply to Blackened
'You gave a very presumptuous analogy, since broadband is not a consumer good, but a vital information service.'
Food and housing isn't vital?
I'm suprised that more Americans aren't concerned that the gov't is trying to run Fortune 500 companies out of busines. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| reply to Maxo
Because if the gov't does it for below cost no one ever will come along to do it.
It's the same thing with food aid. Why should North Korea spend money on farming when America will feed them? Same with any gov't expenditure to "meet people's needs". It doesn't amke the problem go away; it just makes the gov't bigger. |
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Blackened
Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :'You gave a very presumptuous analogy, since broadband is not a consumer good, but a vital information service.' Food and housing isn't vital? Section 8? Food stamps? Welfare? D'oh!
quote:
I'm suprised that more Americans aren't concerned that the gov't is trying to run Fortune 500 companies out of busines.
Peace is war? Freedom is slavery?
»money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/···ll/1995/
»money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/···ll/2000/
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fortune_500 (2006)
Looks like since 2000, the top 500 (minus GM) corporate revenue and profits have doubled, whereas the growth from 1995 to 2000 was slow and steady. So I get 2 things from this:
• #1, the corporations aren't in any trouble at all. It shows by how much more they're bringing in.
• #2, I'm not going to feel bad for the rich, considering the play in interest groups and dwindling medical coverage despite record profits.
I think you got your priorities twisted, homie. |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :Because if the gov't does it for below cost no one ever will come along to do it. It's the same thing with food aid. Why should North Korea spend money on farming when America will feed them? Same with any gov't expenditure to "meet people's needs". It doesn't amke the problem go away; it just makes the gov't bigger. First, muni's do make the problem go away. Second, I'm a big supporter of states, and localities, rights. I would love for there to be a huge shift in power away from the federal government and moved towards the local governments. Local governments should be empowered to meet the needs of the people that are not otherwise being met. The government should be of, for, and by the people. If the collective people want to run a local ISP I don't see a problem in that. I don't like to see people's will to help themselves squashed by a so-called right to profit. Your right to profit ends when it becomes to the detriment of the community.
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"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad
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»myspace.com/mlsquad |
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Duck Duck Goose
@ameritech.net
| reply to Blackened
Wow. I guess those retired on a fixed income who more or less depend on the dividends and income from investments (mutual funds, retirement plans, etc.) are "the rich". Do you know what funds those plans? Investments. Do you know what those investments are? Stocks and bonds. Do you know who issues those stocks and bonds? Your evil corporations.
I sincerely hope you are never in a position to depend on income from your own labor because if you are you'd never make it. Homie. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| reply to Maxo
'If the collective people want to run a local ISP I don't see a problem in that.'
Well then don't ever expect to see competition. No one else will come in unless they they can somehow make it in an environment that they can not compete in.
'Your right to profit ends when it becomes to the detriment of the community.'
If that's the basis of your economic theory then capitalism will not thrive. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| reply to Blackened
'Section 8? Food stamps? Welfare? D'oh! '
Good thing you mentioned that. That's the gov't giving subsidies to the consumer to spend at private enterprises. Section 8 doesn't destroy renters (outside of the unsavory element) nor does food stamps destroy food stores.
Corporate accounting is a neat field. If you think corporations making more money are a bad thing then well....no way to win with you. |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :If that's the basis of your economic theory then capitalism will not thrive. I consider it my social theory. People come first, always. There is no room in the bible for putting money before people. Money is not necessarily bad, but when it trumps communities and people it is. |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to bogey780
"Your right to profit ends when it becomes to the detriment of the community."
I absolutely agree with that statement. If the local power plant is gouging the consumer, then YES, the government SHOULD step in, and fix it. Corporations exist because we decided to allow them. However, we do NOT exist to service the corporation, as you so soundly put it. There is no intrisic right for ANY company to make money. The companies only make money if they sell a product at a reasonable price. When the company gets too big/greedy, that's when the problems arise.
Muni broadband is the CURE for the megacorp greed. Muni services provide an outlet for local communities to control their own destinies. Muni services are a GOOD thing.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 10mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. |
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KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
clubs:
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Speakeasy
| reply to bogey780
It seems that often folks who criticize government-run services, whether state or federal, include the gross inefficiencies that seem to accompany such services.
Would you agree that private enterprise is generally more efficient?
If so, would there be room for private corporations to compete with government, right? They could offer services for a better price?
Do you think local government would undercut the private enterprise and just show more loss? Think the citizens would stand for that?
I dunno...
KM
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Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential |
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AtlGuy
join:2000-10-17
Marietta, GA
| reply to bogey780
Who's to say those cities/towns have competition now? If the Bells won't roll their broadband services to communities, what are those communities supposed to do? Wait and hope and pray that the Bells service them?
If those communities want to service themself, then to hell with the companies that said they won't get enough of an ROI to serve them.
It seems as though you're fine with companies like you work for cherry picking, but at the same time not wanting the local gov'ts to serve themselves. |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | reply to bogey780
We all know that UTOPIA has destroyed any semblance of competative service/pricing within its bounds.
Right?
....right? |
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wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :Corporate accounting is a neat field. If you think corporations making more money are a bad thing then well....no way to win with you. The fact that corporations make money is not, de facto, a bad thing. What's bad is the focus on privatizing profits whilw socializing expenses. MallWart is a classic example of that mentality -- the are phenominally profitable (well, ok, not this quarter) but at the expense of many other social goods. Things like paying a living wage (many MallWart workers still require government subsidies because they can't live on what they are paid, working full time: »www.dsausa.org/lowwage/walmart/2···udy.html), destroying the ecosystem around them (not only are the small mom & pop stores driven out, read up on the number of suppliers that MallWart has chewed up and spit out. For example -- they nearly destroyed Vlassic, maker of pickles, as well as Huffy, manufacturers of bicycles:
»www.fastcompany.com/online/77/walmart.html)
MallWart, of course is a covenient target due to its sheet size, but the telecomm industry is by no mean innocent. For example -- Veizon chief Seidenberg had a base salary of 1.5 million and a boinus of 2.75 million in 2003. That's jumped to a base of 2.1 million and bonus of 4.1 million in 2005. An increase of 80% and 49%, respectively (source: »www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/···14a.htm_. I don't know the actual increase, but I'm willing to bet that VZ rank and file did not enjoy such an increase, and, while the stock has come back a bit this year, it's almost flatlined since 2003. So for mediocre performance at best, this guy nearly doubles his take? Please explain to me the logic or justice in this.
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That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | reply to AtlGuy
Let them get a private company to run it. If they're ding it with taxpayer funds to offset the loss of ROI then it's patently unfair. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | reply to Maxo
All workmen and investors deserve to make a profit on the work and investing they do. Framing the debate as people or profit is in error. |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | reply to bogey780
And whilst no private/public company wants to run it..? |
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