yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| reply to ieolus
Re: Blackmail
said by ieolus  :Hurray! A win for corporate blackmail! Congrats Verizon... It isn't blackmail. Verizon told NJ that if they wanted something bad enough, they'd create an environment in which Verizon could flourish. Now Verizon is employing thousands of people in NJ and will be providing a valuable service to millions of people.
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Wiki Wiki
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge |
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zer0future
join:2005-09-14
Jersey City, NJ | I really hope they get fios out soon in NJ, comcast is pretty decent but their prices are on the high side. |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | reply to yock
yes, that's blackmail. |
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dogo88
join:2001-09-24
Old Bridge, NJ
| Wrong. It's called negotiating. If you want me to do something and I don't like the current status, I'll tell you what I want. If you don't want to do it, then get somebody else. Verizon does not have to offer fiber. Anybody else can come in and build their own network and sell access. |
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TKadlec
join:2000-04-25
Trenton, NJ
| reply to morbo
Actually, it's not. Blackmail involves extorting money for the promise not to make injurious revelations or accusations. More like extortion, although that, too, is a stretch.
Like it or not, Verizon is entitled to decide where and where not to provide FIOS service. They decided to disclose the reasons for not deploying the service. NJ was free to decide whether or not to respond. Neither party is under any obligation to the other. |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | Re: Blackmail --> Extortion
Fine, extortion it is. |
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dogo88
join:2001-09-24
Old Bridge, NJ
| Wrong again. Extortion implies you really don't have any other choice. Like you said
"Like it or not, Verizon is entitled to decide where and where not to provide FIOS service. They decided to disclose the reasons for not deploying the service. NJ was free to decide whether or not to respond. Neither party is under any obligation to the other."
They indicated what they wanted and the State responded. |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
 ·Charter Pipeline
 ·AT&T Southwest
| it actually is more like blackmail than extortion or negotiating, so you were wrong to suggest that it wasn't.
Verizon/telco current positions are those of power. they are abusing it and this is yet another reason they should be stripped of owning the infrastructure. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by morbo :Verizon/telco current positions are those of power. they are abusing it and this is yet another reason they should be stripped of owning the infrastructure. And then you don't get your FIOS.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: |
hence, blackmail. |
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dogo88
join:2001-09-24
Old Bridge, NJ
| reply to pnh102
Exactly.
I continue to be amazed that there are folks here who continually equate big to terrible/overpriced/bad and small to good/friendly/good bargain.
Verizon has a product. You don't want to pay for it(or establish an environment where they want to participate), then go somewhere else. They built the infrastructure. And yeah, I know we gave it to them for free. (you can use that same argument for AIDS research and most every other large product). So, go out and build your own infrastructure, make sure it's good, available everywhere, cheaply priced and above all has excellent customer service. Otherwise we all here will complain about every thing we can find wrong about it.
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| reply to ieolus
said by ieolus :Fine, extortion it is. Nope, its called a sound business model. Any company can come in and so the same thing. Unfortunately, all the CLEC's want to do is sit around and wait for the government to force Verizon to give them access. THAT is a terrible business model, and there is a reason why the 99% of the CLEC's went under.
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я люблю медведей! |
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SD6
join:2005-03-26
| said by wifi4milez :Nope, its called a sound business model. Any company can come in and so the same thing. But not quite on the same basis. Read the law. There are special considerations given to ILECs. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to yock
Re: Blackmail
said by yock :It isn't blackmail. Verizon told NJ that if they wanted something bad enough, they'd create an environment in which Verizon could flourish. Now Verizon is employing thousands of people in NJ and will be providing a valuable service to millions of people. At the expense of the public good... Basically, government selling out the interests of one group to help another.
America, best government money can buy.
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Ann Coulter doesn't know jack about science...
"Extremes to the right and left of any political dispute are always wrong." —Dwight Eisenhower |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| said by bmn :said by yock :It isn't blackmail. Verizon told NJ that if they wanted something bad enough, they'd create an environment in which Verizon could flourish. Now Verizon is employing thousands of people in NJ and will be providing a valuable service to millions of people. At the expense of the public good... Basically, government selling out the interests of one group to help another. America, best government money can buy. Just whose public good are you referring to? Citizens will now have access to next generation communications technology, and if they perceive Verizon abusing their new state-wide franchise agreement with excessive rates, they can cancel their service.
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Wiki Wiki
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by yock :At the expense of the public good... Basically, government selling out the interests of one group to help another. America, best government money can buy. Just whose public good are you referring to? Citizens will now have access to next generation communications technology, and if they perceive Verizon abusing their new state-wide franchise agreement with excessive rates, they can cancel their service.
Access to a service is one good, however, there are losses that must be taken into account for that gain.
A large amount of locally generated content may be lost because localities can no longer negotiate with video providers. So government access and educational channels will suffer. Its a new type of media consolidation that will end up hurting the American public.
Sorry, but state franchise agreements are a step backwards. They eliminate the ability of rate payers and localities to enforce basic service minimums and keep these companies honest.
Sorry, but the free market fantasy world of needs to be kept in check by rational policy and oversight.
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Prove it... |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| said by bmn :A large amount of locally generated content may be lost because localities can no longer negotiate with video providers. So government access and educational channels will suffer. Its a new type of media consolidation that will end up hurting the American public. Sorry, but state franchise agreements are a step backwards. They eliminate the ability of rate payers and localities to enforce basic service minimums and keep these companies honest. Sorry, but the free market fantasy world of needs to be kept in check by rational policy and oversight. Franchise agreements are decidedly *NOT* capitalist, in fact, you're preaching to the choir when you speak out against them to me. Business is a risk and no matter your size the government shouldn't make such guarantees to commercial entities.
The free market can work to a point. I agree that some consumer protection is necessary against monopolist or collusionary business practices. Problem is, franchising goes against this.
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Wiki Wiki
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by yock :Franchise agreements are decidedly *NOT* capitalist, in fact, you're preaching to the choir when you speak out against them to me. Business is a risk and no matter your size the government shouldn't make such guarantees to commercial entities. Then I think you've misread my post... I was commenting on the fact that NJ gave in and granted a statewide franchise agreement to Verizon. This gives Verizon carte blanche to say F*** You to the localities and their interests.
The free market can work to a point. I agree that some consumer protection is necessary against monopolist or collusionary business practices. Problem is, franchising goes against this. Are you sure... Franchising merely grants companies the ability to operate in a given locality. Due to the nature of how MSOs and phone companies work, they are natural monopolies, the franchise agreements are structured to give consumer protections and establish minimum guidelines in order for those companies to operate. Also remember, franchise agreements can NO LONGER be exclusive, so there is no guarantee of success to the company, but there is a guarantee that the company will meet certain standards.
However, the weakening of franchise agreements, such as the case here, can strip the ability of consumers to be protected by companies like Verizon who have a history of waste, fraud and abuse of rate payer money.
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Prove it... |
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