iLive4Apple
Hybrid power
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join:2006-07-13
Helena, AL | Hybrids
Does anyone own a Hybrid?
I own a 2006 Toyota Pirus Hybrid |
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Defcon888
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join:2003-07-22
San Bruno, CA
 ·AT&T Yahoo
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| said by iLive4Apple  :Does anyone own a Hybrid? I own a 2006 Toyota Pirus Hybrid I don't, but what mileage are you getting so far?
--
defcon888@gmail.com
send me spam! |
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lotusracer
Premium
join:1999-11-26
Moline, IL
| reply to iLive4Apple
said by iLive4Apple :Does anyone own a Hybrid? I own a 2006 Toyota Pirus Hybrid We've owned a 2001 Prius since taking delivery of it new in June 2001. It's great! |
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iLive4Apple
Hybrid power
Premium
join:2006-07-13
Helena, AL | reply to Defcon888
I currently get 51 MPG and thats a mixture of city and interstate |
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burgermeister
All Computers Are Junk
join:2000-10-23
Utica, MI | reply to iLive4Apple
I have a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid.
I love it!  |
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lotusracer
Premium
join:1999-11-26
Moline, IL
| reply to iLive4Apple
Once you drive a hybrid and sit through red lights with your gas engine off, traffic jams just don't seem to matter any more.....
I actually enjoy driving our Prius as much as I do my Lotus (in different ways of course). |
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dandeman
Premium,MVM
join:2001-12-05
Chapel Hill, NC
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to iLive4Apple
Own a 2006 Prius Hybrid... The average MPG on a recent 7500 mile cross country trip was 51.7mpg..
Average would have been even better if trip had not included long periods of driving 75-80mph on I-90 and other western interstates where speed limit is 75mph. It was averaging around 44mpg at those speeds.. Other places saw mpg as high as 64mpg at times..
Very comfortable cross country car! |
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justin
Australian
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Brooklyn, NY
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| reply to dandeman
Re: Hybrids
I'm curious, what is the engineering reason why highway mpg is lower than around town mpg for the prius?
it seems to me it should be vice versa. Around town you are accelerating the car and decelerating it which even if you recapture the momentum with regenerative braking has to be very power hungry due to efficiency losses. On the highway you only need to overcome rolling resistance and wind resistance.
Is there something about the design that is more efficient at 20mph stop start than 70mph constant?
Oh wait, I know why.. because drag goes up exponentially with speed, right? so to propel something with drag at steady 70mph vs steady 35mph, although you complete the journey twice as quickly, you need three (or definitely more than twice) as much pushing power?
So if you could drive your prius at 45mph on the highway, you'd see over 50mpg? |
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lotusracer
Premium
join:1999-11-26
Moline, IL
| said by justin :I'm curious, what is the engineering reason why highway mpg is lower than around town mpg for the prius? it seems to me it should be vice versa. Is there something about the design that is more efficient at 20mph stop start than 70mph constant? Oh wait, I know why.. because drag goes up exponentially with speed, right? So if you could drive your prius at 45mph on the highway, you'd see over 50mpg? Drag may have a little to do with it... but mostly it has to do with the fact that around town, you are more likely to get more benefits from the electric part of the drivetrain. You can get some pure electric "stealth" driving in town, where on the highway, you tend to use gas only or gas/electric combined.
Years ago on the Yahoo Prius list, at least with the 'classic' 2001-2003 Prius it was determined that MPG begins to drop off at around 62mph. If I remember correctly, several owners said that the best figures were around constant 45mph.
Something interesting I've seen myself is that driving highways on level ground can sometimes bring you lower economy figures than when you are driving on slightly hilly terrain. Odd when you consider that the constantly variable transmission can really rev the engine up when you go up a hill!
Several things can affect a person's hybrid economy experience... short trips will lower your average.... cold weather will lower your average. But then, those same things will lower economy figures in any car. |
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iLive4Apple
Hybrid power
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join:2006-07-13
Helena, AL | reply to iLive4Apple
My Prius does best in the city. And actualy in my area in the city I run in all electric most for 1-2 miles. |
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justin
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| said by iLive4Apple :My Prius does best in the city. And actualy in my area in the city I run in all electric most for 1-2 miles. yeah but then if you run electric you are draining the battery which has to be recharged, and that is the gas engine.
So I'm still not seeing how it is more efficient to convert petrol --> internal combustion --> electricity --> batteries --> wheels (around town)
than converting petrol --> internal combustion --> wheels (highway) |
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lotusracer
Premium
join:1999-11-26
Moline, IL
| said by justin :yeah but then if you run electric you are draining the battery which has to be recharged, and that is the gas engine. So I'm still not seeing how it is more efficient to convert petrol --> internal combustion --> electricity --> batteries --> wheels (around town) than converting petrol --> internal combustion --> wheels (highway) The car also generates electricity during braking... using the electric motors. |
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iLive4Apple
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Helena, AL
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| Exactly and using the gas engine to recharge the batteries is still very efficient because it uses very little gas to recgarge it. Whe you floor it, most the power is coming from the electric motors in the form of torque. The Gas just sits there and help a little and recharges the battery. The Prius electric motors produces 295 lb/ft |
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justin
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1 edit | I don't buy that explanation. There is no magic energy for free here (regenerative braking aside).
If you burn X amount of gas to move the car using petrol only, you are DEFINITELY going to burn more gas to charge batteries to turn electric motors to move the car at the same speed. Otherwise you are breaking a law of physics or three and should probably look at how you can harness the prius drivetrain to produce free energy! |
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lotusracer
Premium
join:1999-11-26
Moline, IL
| reply to iLive4Apple
said by iLive4Apple :using the gas engine to recharge the batteries is still very efficient because it uses very little gas to recharge it. Whe you floor it, most the power is coming from the electric motors in the form of torque. The Gas just sits there and help a little and recharges the battery. The Prius electric motors produces 295 lb/ft People just don't seem to get it that in a normal car, the gas engine basically just moves the car... nothing is "recaptured", but in a hybrid, some of that energy makes it back into the batteries. |
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justin
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| said by lotusracer :said by iLive4Apple :using the gas engine to recharge the batteries is still very efficient because it uses very little gas to recharge it. Whe you floor it, most the power is coming from the electric motors in the form of torque. The Gas just sits there and help a little and recharges the battery. The Prius electric motors produces 295 lb/ft People just don't seem to get it that in a normal car, the gas engine basically just moves the car... nothing is "recaptured", but in a hybrid, some of that energy makes it back into the batteries. I get that. But if you are tootling along the highway at 50mph steady speed you're not recapturing anything. Even if you stop every 50 miles to stretch your legs, the energy recaptured is minimal.
Of course in city traffic you are recapturing some percentage of the energy you used to accelerate you to 20 mph each time you slow or stop. |
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lotusracer
Premium
join:1999-11-26
Moline, IL
| 
Energy monitor screenshot from 2001-2003 Prius |
said by justin :if you are tootling along the highway at 50mph steady speed you're not recapturing anything. Even if you stop every 50 miles to stretch your legs, the energy recaptured is minimal. Of course in city traffic you are recapturing some percentage of the energy you used to accelerate you to 20 mph each time you slow or stop. While driving at speeds even higher than 50mph you do indeed recapture energy. One simply needs to ride along in one of these cars and watch the energy screen to see how it works.
Here is a video of one in operation in a 2004-2007 Prius:
»youtube.com/watch?v=HszzwKUG0qs
Some places to read about it:
»john1701a.com/
»privatenrg.com/ |
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justin
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| then it isnt truly steady speed, the accelerator pedel is being moved very slightly (add some power, remove some power). But the amount of energy recaptured is absolutely insignificant and represents the un-even nature of "steady" driving.
Doesn't change my point at all.
I think it is all down to aerodynamics. The sweet spot for MPG is whatever is is (steady 52mph or whatever) and beyond that, well, you're pushing too much air and mpg declines. In fact come to think of it, isn't that why the national limit used to be 50?
If prius drivers drove highway at 50 and urban at whatever, they'd surely find better consumption on highway vs city - or there is something else suboptimal going on with the drivetrain. |
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lotusracer
Premium
join:1999-11-26
Moline, IL
| said by justin :then it isnt truly steady speed, the accelerator pedel is being moved very slightly (add some power, remove some power). come to think of it, isn't that why the national limit used to be 50? The national limit was 55.... by law in 1974, modified in the late 80s and repealed in 1995. It was intended to save gas.
I can set my cruise control to keep a steady speed, anywhere from around 25mph and up... you can see the car cycle between regen and electric use on the MFD. |
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