Devistater
join:2004-02-13
Clovis, CA
3 edits | reply to batterup
Re: Total BS!
Oh come on, now you are getting ridiculous.
»www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xb···esystem/
$299 for the core
Being as MS is the manufacture, I imagine they would show the MSRP on thier site.
$399 for the premium
»www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xb···rosystem
At the very least, if your pie in the sky $600 was true EVER of the core MSRP, it would have been that price at launch. And it never was. The core launched at $300.
That site you are listing which claims to be a wholesale dropshipper, the cost of the core xbox 360 is $314 + shipping. Which is higher than every single other major store online OR B&M. Heck you can walk into best buy and get the core for $300. They definately are NOT wholesalers, or if they are they are ripping people off.
Your random googling of a site to try and support your point kinda turned up a poor example there.
The MSRP of the core system is $300 and everyone is selling it for that price. That particular site is inflating actual MSRP figures.
Here's a concrete example that took me just a few seconds to find, if you click on the digital camera category. At the top you'll see an olympus SP-320 camera. That site claims the MSRP is $400. But if you google for olympus SP-320 MSRP, you'll see a number of sites such as this one:
»www.dcresource.com/reviews/camer···?cam=814
That show the MSRP is actually $300.
In fact here's a preview of the camera before it was released which shows the same MSRP of $300 (just in case you want to claim that its been lowered over time since the camera's release)
»www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/S···320A.HTM
Oh also, did you take a look at the computer category of that site? Hardly any selection at all. They are definately NOT a wholesaler. And so far the products I've checked have all had inflated false MSRP. |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | said by Devistater  :Oh come on, now you are getting ridiculous. The MSRP of the core system is $300 and everyone is selling it for that price. That particular site is inflating actual MSRP figures. You should not go name calling if you don't know what the MSRP means. Very few items sell at MSRP, Rolex watches from an authorized dealer being one exception.
Do you have a link for a MSRP of 300? |
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Devistater
join:2004-02-13
Clovis, CA
4 edits | Go back and read my post. Despite you posting AFTER my extensive edit, you didn't read it.
I got my numbers from the official microsoft site.
And yes, not only did I look at your link, I provided an additional concrete example of them inflating actual MSRP numbers (a digital camera).
Also, for your information there are TONS of products that sell for MSRP, especially right when they launch. One quick example, graphics cards. They quite often sell at MSRP when a new generation is released.
Most B&M stores sell a huge number of items in thier store for MSRP unless they are on sale that week.
Since I provided a concrete example of your site inflating an MSRP (the digital camera), I challange you to provide an example where that megagoods site has the actual verifiable non inflated MSRP on one of thier items.
Its a commonly known scam for sites like that (who are trying to sell products at a higher price that you can get almost anywhere else) to inflate their MSRP prices above what they actually are. Heck, if you google for xbox core MSRP, one of the first hits is a guide about that scam lol.
Oh also, many of their items are refurbished or not new, thats hardly wholesale dropshipper practices!
And finally, if the official microsoft xbox site wasn't a good enough source for you, try googling for xbox core $299 MSRP and xbox core $599 MSRP.
You get 10,000+ hits for the former and only about 600 hits for the latter. Doesn't prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt, but its suggestive.
Look, I can agree with your point that most places can sell many items far below MSRP. Theres no question. There's also no question that the wholesale is below the MSRP, sometimes far below even the actual price you can buy it at. My disagreement is one of degree, not kind in general. Unfortunately, we aren't talking in general, we are talking about a particular item, the xbox 360 core system. An item that does NOT have an MSRP of $599.
I provided an example of the site you linked where they were inflating actual MSRP. I showed you the official microsoft site where they show the price of $299. Now I think you should show me somewhere on the official microsoft site where they mention a $599 price for the core (MSRP or otherwise). |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Devistater :And finally, if the official microsoft xbox site wasn't a good enough source for you, try googling for xbox core $299 MSRP and xbox core $599 MSRP. I must be missing something. Post the link again to the *official Microsoft* site that shows the MSRP. |
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GameTrader
@mindspring.com
| I used to work for a video game retailer 4 or 5 years ago. I can tell you the $280 for a $300 system sounds right. We used to make $5 - $10 for every N64 or Playstation sold. The biggest way we'd make money was through selling large quanities of games. Even the markup on those was only about 25%. I'm sure Amazon gets them in bulk as a wholeseller cheaper than a small retailer, but it wouldn't be much of a difference.
Also, video game console companies are very strict with their pricing. I am not sure of the details, but if a store is caught selling a system more than a few pennies below the given price, dealers will no longer sell to them. I am sure Amazon and Microsoft had some deal in making this happen. |
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Devistater
join:2004-02-13
Clovis, CA
1 edit | reply to batterup
The two links I provided to xbox.com (which is a MS owned official site) show the official microsoft pricing. It doesn't specifically say MSRP right next to it. They don't need to, its the official site with the official manufacture price.
Another example:
»www.xbox.com/en-US/press/2005/08···ails.htm
Or the same press release on microsoft.com (thanks rakslice)
»www.microsoft.com/presspass/pres···ePR.mspx
The official microsoft press release about pricing for xbox on launch. Notice how they announce the price of $299 for the core? Why would MS announce any other price than the MSRP?
I think its time you show me somewhere on the official microsoft site (xbox.com or microsoft.com) where they mention a $599 price for the core (MSRP or otherwise, I won't hold you to finding the specific term MSRP). That would prove I was wrong.
I notice you didn't respond when I pointed out concrete example of your site inflating MSRP numbers, or indications that site was a price inflation scam site that suckers buy from because they think they are getting a better deal when they aren't. Perhaps I'll find some additional examples of that.
The same site shows that the nintendo wii MSRP is $999. This is complete and utter nonsense (even WITH a game. A game isn't going to change the MSRP to 4 times normal).
»www.megagoods.com/product_catalo···tem=4294
100% proof:
»www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?art···c0b&page
nintendo's official press release
"MSRP $249.99"
Contrast that to MS's press release. They are both announcing initial launch pricing points. Both are prices that stores adhere to very well (likely because of a very small margin). MS didn't mention the term MSRP in thier press release, although nintendo DID SPECIFICALLY USE THAT TERM.
So lets try a google for wii MSRP $249.99, and there's 25,000+ hits.
Now lets try googling for wii MSRP $999.99
Only 400 hits interesting. Now looking at a few of those hits, what do you know. A bunch of them are ebay or similar auctions trying to convince people to pay more as if they are offering a better deal than they actually are (trying to scam people by showing inflated false MSRP)
In fact here's a funny example where they copied, word for word, the exact page from your megagoods site:
»auctions.yahoo.com/i:NINTENDO%20···17427133
They are trying to get $700 for a wii! LOL!
Here's a similar ebay example:
»item.express.ebay.com/__Video-Ga···ressItem
Same exact copy/paste and wii for $825 !
Just give it up, admit that the site you poorly choose to give evidence to your argument is trying to scam and falsly inflate MSRP to sell items at a higher price, that our differances are ones of degree, not kind.  |
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MikeFM
@cox.net | reply to batterup
Walmart lives on something like 3% profit margin. As a business owner I can tell you that the norm is around 15% - 20% markup. |
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Harik
@rr.com
| reply to knightmb
Re: Tech Info
said by knightmb :For those that are curious, the most ports you can have open is 65,535 on a connection, so if more than (minus everything else below 1024 that the OS will need for various reasons) that many people are clicking to begin with, the server, no matter how beefy it is simply can't get the request because of this hard limit. WOW. Just WOW. That's utterly and totally incorrect.
Your win32 machine _DOES_ have a hard limit of 64511 (or less) outgoing connections, because they each use one of the available ports. But on the server side, each of them connects to the same port (80). The server's "hard" limit is 281.4 trillion connections (32 bits IP, 16 bits port). That's per service port. Obviously no machine can support that, if there were even a way to get that many machines to connect at once. |
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rakslice
join:2006-11-24
Vernon, BC
| reply to batterup
Re: Total BS!
Look way up to the xbox.com links a few messages ago.
And here's a press release from launch time:
»www.microsoft.com/presspass/pres···ePR.mspx |
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jkrywyn
@charter.com
| reply to batterup
Wholesale on electronics is TOTALLY different than other consumer items. For example, an xbox 360 video game costs companies about $49. Those who sell it for less on promotion do so to get you in the store. My friend works at Fry's and he'll say the exact same thing.
Wholesale is more then 50% off suggested price, sometimes way more.
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Devistater
join:2004-02-13
Clovis, CA
1 edit | Sometimes wholesale is >50% off, but not in this specific case, and in fact not the case with any new consoles. And probably not the case with most console games either. |
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someonehere
@charter.com | reply to batterup
Not true. You're average grocery store stays in business on a margin of 1-2%. Only thing is, a company like Stop and Shop does $40billion in sales a year. You do the math. It's all about volume. |
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Crazy Hacker
@comcast.net
| reply to Harik
Re: Tech Info
said by Harik :said by knightmb :For those that are curious, the most ports you can have open is 65,535 on a connection, so if more than (minus everything else below 1024 that the OS will need for various reasons) that many people are clicking to begin with, the server, no matter how beefy it is simply can't get the request because of this hard limit. WOW. Just WOW. That's utterly and totally incorrect. Your win32 machine _DOES_ have a hard limit of 64511 (or less) outgoing connections, because they each use one of the available ports. But on the server side, each of them connects to the same port (80). The server's "hard" limit is 281.4 trillion connections (32 bits IP, 16 bits port). That's per service port. Obviously no machine can support that, if there were even a way to get that many machines to connect at once. Actually, the server listens on port 80 and can accept the hard limit, but has to open a response port to talk back to the client, and that's where the real limitation comes in. Even though the port is in use for a short period before closing, most OS's don't allow port re-use for 60 seconds (this can be tweaked on Unix/Linux, but I'm not sure about Windows). So in reality, one server can only have 64k concurrent connections. Of course, for huge sites like Amazon, this is handled by geographic load balancing, so even the load balancer clusters, are load balanced across the world. |
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anonEmouse
@comcast.net
| reply to Devistater
Re: Total BS!
Here's a concrete example that took me just a few seconds to find, if you click on the digital camera category. At the top you'll see an olympus SP-320 camera. That site claims the MSRP is $400. But if you google for olympus SP-320 MSRP, you'll see a number of sites such as this one:
»www.dcresource.com/reviews/camer···?cam=814
That show the MSRP is actually $300.
In fact here's a preview of the camera before it was released which shows the same MSRP of $300 (just in case you want to claim that its been lowered over time since the camera's release)
»www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/S···320A.HTM
$300 is NOT the MSRP price for the Olympus SP-320. It is the "Estimated Street Price" (ESP, sometimes alternately known as ERP for Estimated Retail Price):
»www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/11···769.html
Products very seldom sell for their MSRP prices. MSRP is simply a price far in excess of the real retail price, allowing retailers to claim they're selling at a "30% discount" (or whatever) rather than admitting they're selling at the exact same price everybody else is.
Another common one is MAP, or Minimum Advertised Price, where authorised dealers are barred from publishing a price below a certain figure in their advertisements or promotional materials, and usually they're also barred from revealing the price on a website before capture of a shopper's identity / adding the item to a shopping cart / whatever. This one exists solely to prop up prices from retailers who are overcharging for a product by preventing the competition from advertising their lower price. |
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jZero
@rit.edu | reply to batterup
No business in the world can stay in business on a markup of 7%. Perhaps, but there are some that not only stay in business but thrive on markups of only 14-15% (corporate policy, see Costco). |
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Ubu
@rr.com | reply to Devistater
My uncle works at Xbox and the employee discount is cost + 10% [of retail] and bought one for him and myself for about $130. The cost of it is $100. I don't think Amazon lost anything - just sold it for cost. |
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Robocoastie
@rr.com
| reply to batterup
as Devistater points out that's not true on computer products. Computer sales is a losing business in fact ever since the advent of the "cheap pc" type products in the late 90s. Profit in computer sales now comes from extended warrenty, service contracts and "upgrades" which is why salesmen in compusa push those so much. |
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hubb
@uga.edu |  reply to batterup
 groceries sit on an average of 2.8% markup per item. |
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phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to ChrisAdan650
Well, maybe if you would have "spoofed" the URL with HTTPS, it would have worked, like it did for me, but I didn't want to buy it, I just wanted to see how busy the site was...
--
SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. |
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TCPguy
@rogers.com
| reply to Crazy Hacker
Re: Tech Info
The response goes out on the same port (80), not some other port that the server "has to open".
TCP connections are defined by source ip, source port, destination ip, destination port. If any single one of those changes, it's a different connection. For web sites, the "destination" is the server, and your pc is the "source". If the server changes the port it sends the response on, the "destination port" changes, making it a different connection, so your pc has no way of knowing it's the response for the request it sent to port 80.
The TCP stack on the server has a maximum number of connections it can queue up; these are connections that are attempting to connect, but the server software hasn't accepted yet. When this limit is reached, then your pc "cannot connect" and it seems like the website is down.
Having a server farm lets the website answer more connections faster, but they are ALL going to (and responses coming from) the same port (80). |
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