submrge
join:2004-10-10
Mine Hill, NJ
| reply to Hound
Re: [CATV] INHD 2
availability of local sports is important for some people but it isn't nearly as important for alot of poeple - contrary to what you would like to believe.
also the fact that if push comes to shove patriot (or their successor) could offer those hd channels that the competition has. |
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Hound
join:2006-03-08
Princeton, NJ
| I agree, the sports channels are important to less than
50 percent of subscribers. I also agree that when push
comes to shove, Patriot or its successor will compete
with Verizon and offer additional HD channels just like
Verizon is going to compete with Comcast and Cablevision's
offerings. Patriot which has not had to compete with Comcast and Cablevision in the past will end up improving
its channel lineup because of Verizon. |
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robjlevin
join:2002-10-30
Millington, NJ
| reply to submrge
And therein lies my beef. Why wait til push comes to shove? Why wait until you have unhappy customers?
I've blamed Cablevision for the lack of MSG and FSN HD feeds for years. I blamed them when we couldn't watch games on Metro. But they've apparently had some kind of change of philosophy since everyone else is getting those games now.
Why does Patriot insist on being the last? This was a very promising company a couple of years ago. But their customer service has gone into the toilet. Nobody knows anything. Nobody returns calls.
I do agree with you that most people don't care about about HD sports. In fact, most don't care about sports at all so there's no doubt in my mind that Verizon and Patriot (and it's successors) can co-exist but only if Patriot can compete on price for cable, internet, and phone.
In the end, competition will be good for everyone. Take a look at Verizon's current offerings and costs and compare it to Patriot's. For me, Verizon wins. For others, maybe not. But when you combine it with internet and phone, I don't think Patriot stands a chance head to head. Their channel line up isn't as good. They don't come close to providing the speed for internet and their digital phone service isn't exactly winning any awards.
The next little while is going to be very interesting.
In any event, you've been the only person even remotely connected to Patriot that seems to give a rat's ass and for that I say thank you. The company could use more like you. |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
 ·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| I think phone service will be free with video in a few years. Verizon cant just compete with more, and cable cant compete with less. So in the end something is just going to be automatically free. Plus considering you can get voip for as little as $10 a month. Then again there is that build out thing, and i don't see verizon rushing to build out in patriots areas. Hunterdon and parts of Somerset barely have DSL. Probably Princeton and Hillsboro will get Fios the rest i just dont see Verizon willing to invest in.
--
Say NO to the "holidays" this Christmas!
What "holiday" season Its Hannukkah!
Happy New Year too... |
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robjlevin
join:2002-10-30
Millington, NJ
| Aren't you in a Sprint area? Verizon will certainly not be doing anything there.
But the entire area served out of the Long Hill headend is wired for FiOS. And they've finally started burying fiber in underground areas. I got the internet service on Monday.
I do agree about the convergence of services. In fact, I'm going to likely port my ATT Callvantage numbers over to VoiceWing to save a few dollars and avoid the problems with their equipment not being very compatible with the Verizon routers. |
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Hound
join:2006-03-08
Princeton, NJ
| Comcast has this ad in today's Star Ledger. This is obviously where push comes to shove preparing for competing
with FIOS. These are Comcast HD channels. Comcast also
provides Mercer County and some other areas with a full time Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia HD feed.
In the sports section of the Star Ledger today:
"Games from MSG, FSNY, YES and NFL Network will now be available on channels, 201, 206, 210 and 211
Applies to: Comcast of NJ II(Union), Plainfield, NW, Jersey City, Meadowlands, Monmouth County, Ocean County, Central NJ, Toms River, LBI, Mercer County(Trenton) and SE PA(Lambertville)." |
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dsEAGLES
join:2004-12-29
Princeton, NJ
| Basic issue with Patriot is that they don't belong in Mercer County. The FCC considers Mercer County (Princeton) to be a Philadelphia market, that is why Princeton has its own lineup, but Patriot treats us like a NY market. I understand that most of the footprint does not care about Comcast Sportsnet, but many of us in Princeton do. As soon as I can get Verizon I will. That's 200 per month (for all my services) that Patriot will never get back. |
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Hound
join:2006-03-08
Princeton, NJ
| I agree UnPatriot should not be in Princeton. UnPatriot has
thumbed its nose at all the Philadelphia Sports fans.
The Montgomery zip codes all fall within the Phillies television territory as well. There are many Philly phans in Montgomery as well. UnPatriot does not belong there either. Montgomery is another town that qualifies for CSN, YES, SNY, MSG and FSNY. At our country club in Montgomery, we are going to remodel the club house and will be putting in new high definition tvs. We currently use UnPatriot but are looking to get CSN Philly as well. |
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dsEAGLES
join:2004-12-29
Princeton, NJ | How are you going to get CSN in Montgomery? |
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submrge
join:2004-10-10
Mine Hill, NJ
| reply to robjlevin
"And therein lies my beef. Why wait til push comes to shove? Why wait until you have unhappy customers?"
i've always thought that they should offer as many channels as they could. but from a business standpoint, i guess they pick a lineup that *most* people want and go from there. they only offered SNY because subs complained - and believe me, they weren't happy about that.
people keep complaining about the lack of philly sports - understand something, the amount of subs served by the princeton nodes is very small compared to the rest of the system. (just prin boro and township) montgomery subs are served by the general line up. not the prn line up. if they offer those channels in montgomery i'd assume they would have to offer to all the other subs (except those in the north). |
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robjlevin
join:2002-10-30
Millington, NJ
| The SNY thing made them look like complete fools. They spent months claiming there was little to no interest in the channel and then boom...all of a sudden it's added because of high demand.
How many times do you have to look like an idiot before you learn?
As long as we're on that. They sure didn't waste a second raising rates, did they? Well, they're removing INHD2, where's my rate reduction?
And why can't we get an explanation for why they've got SNY and YES in HD but not MSG and FSN? They have no problem posting all the details for the NFL Network blackouts.
As for CSN, I think they could easily get away with adding that to the areas that are in the official Philly DMA. There's really no point in adding it anywhere else since it would be out of market and all the games would need to be blacked out anyway.
They seem to have their collective heads stuck in the sand figuring that FiOS isn't going to effect them. I think that attitude is going to bite them big time. I'll switch for the customer service difference alone. The Patmedia CSRs are the most clueless bunch of people I've ever tried to talk to.
They have no idea what's going on and management seem to like it that way since they obviously provide zero training for these people.
The Verizon employees...at least the ones I've spoken to...are well trained and very knowledgable about FiOS. |
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Hound
join:2006-03-08
Princeton, NJ
| reply to dsEAGLES
The Montgomery zip codes fall within the zip codes allocated to the Philadelphia Phillies under the Major League television agreement. The Sixers games would be
shown without blackout in Montgomery because all of the Nets games are on YES (cable or satellite). The NBA blackout policy only applies to games shown over the air. |
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Hound
join:2006-03-08
Princeton, NJ
| reply to submrge
The Princeton nodes being a small part of the system is irrelevant. Philadelphia Phillies are the home town team. Not providing the Princeton residents with the home town team is a very sore point.
Unpatriot has 80,004 residential subscribers. Cablevision
has 963,576 residential subscribers in NJ. The Princeton
nodes account for 6,848 subscribers or 8.6%. The Montgomery node accounts for 5,386 subscribers or 6.7%. That is a total of 15.3% of your subscribers that you are denying access to the home town baseball team. Cablevision
has 33,112 subscribers in its Hamilton system or 3.4% of its NJ subscribers. Cablevision provides CSN Philly to this
small 3.4% of its NJ subscribers. Cablevision also provides
YES, SNY, MSG and FSNY to Hamilton. Cablevision is under no
obligation to provide YES or SNY to Hamilton. CSN Philly is
not available on satellite by the mandate of the FCC, so the Princeton subscribers cannot access the Philly CSN baseball games at all. Both YES HD and SNY HD are on Directv. With regard to those two channels, subscribers have choice.
The only reason that Unpatriot does not provide CSN Philly
to Princeton or Montgomery is because you have not figured out how to pass the entire cost (about $2.15 per month on to all subscribers). Unpatriot does not want to decrease its margins. The Unpatriot ownership is looking to flip the
system for a big profit and could not care less whether
the Princeton and Montgomery residents get to watch the home town baseball team.
If CSN is offered to Princeton and Montgomery, the only other subs that would have to get it are subs within the
Philadelphia Phillies allotted zip codes. I have not checked to see if there are more zip codes within your
service area. I suspect there are not.
When you say "most" subscribers there is not one channel
other than the four networks (ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX) that
a majority of subscribers would agree on.
With regard to Comcast now offering four sports HD channels
that Patriot does not offer, CSN, MSG, FSNY and NFL games,
the majority of early HD adopters are sports oriented.
HD subscriptions will probably double in the next 18 months
and again more than 50 percent of the increase will be sports oriented. The new HD owners forking out the big bucks want instant gratification by seeing the games in HD.
Comcast knows that. It is going to be difficult to get
Comcast subscribers to change to Verizon, if Comcast is
providing, CSN Philly HD, YES HD, SNY HD, MSG HD, FSNY HD,
INHD, NBATV HD and the new Versus/Golf HD channel.
Unpatriot does not provide CSN HD, MSG HD, FSNY HD, NBATV HD and NFL HD games. That is five major sports channels!!!
The reason is that you do not want to affect your margins.
You are already charge more than both Comcast and Cablevision!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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icepop456
join:2002-08-27
Somerville, NJ
| Oddly enough, I'm not sure I'm willing to pay for all the extra sports channels you mentioned. I think it is ridiculous that I need a channel for the Yankees, the Mets, philly teams, etc. Who's watching the YES network now? Games that used to be on FSNY are now split on other channels. I call it channel inefficiency (aka a way to charge us more money). They all claim added content, but I really only care about the game.
Add to all this, that I'm 20 min from Rutgers I could not watch last weeks game against SYR. Any local station should have the right to pick up the local game. I believe this exists in the NFL. Obvious this will void the contract of those rich greedy executives who are just trying to make another quick buck.
I therefore don't blame patmedia, but the TV executives around the nation. Don't get me wrong, I hate patmedia too.
The easy solution is pay-per-view with a sports package. However, that may never happen because channels want everyone on a network to get the channel so that they can go charge more for commercials (sounds like double billing). |
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robjlevin
join:2002-10-30
Millington, NJ | The point is that Patriot is charging more and providing less than the other cable companies in the area. |
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Hound
join:2006-03-08
Princeton, NJ
| reply to icepop456
Icepop:
Unfortunately, we are stuck with the system that our lawmakers and appointed regulators have given us. Only the FCC or Congress can change it. Because of vertical integration, (cable multi video providers owning sports channels, in Central New Jersey), there are five regional sports channels whose owners require placement in a tier that 90 percent of subscribers must pay for the channel, whether they want to see it or not. SNY at a cost of $1.75 per month per subscriber is a record price for a baseball only channel. The monthly price of YES and CSN Philly is over $2.00 per month per subscriber. The subscriber fee for MSG and FSNY used to be $3.80 per month. I do not know what it is now without the Mets. There is an additional per month charge for MSG HD and FSNY HD. Did Cablevision
reduce the price of MSG and FSNY after the Mets left? Did
Unpatriot Media pass the reduction on to subscribers?
Unpatriot Media in the SNY imbroglio and failure to provide
CSN Philly and MSG, FSNY HD channels likes to say to its
subscribers, 'well we do not want to give in to Comcast
or Cablevision, because the majority of our subscribers do
not want to pay for those channels'. However, Unpatriot is
putting the subscriber fees in its pocket. Unpatriot is
charging more than Comcast and Cablevision anyway without
providing these channels. Unpatriot is denying 15 percent of its subscriber base the chance to watch the home town
baseball team. Unpatriot is a three year get rich scheme for its investors on the backs of its subscribers.
With the system we have, everybody has to pay for the sports channels. That is not a valid reason to pick and choose and deny access to fans of certain teams. Unpatriot
should be competing and providing access within the current environment. Congress has to change 90 percent of subscribers paying for sports channels. Verizon is going to be forced to compete with Comcast and Cablevision in NJ under the current environment.
Comcast with its new HD sports lineup is going to retain
and atrract new subscribers not only for TV, but high speed
internet and telephone. Verizon is going to quickly learn
that retention of current telephone customers is going to
be dependent on its television channel lineup. Unpatriot or its new ownership is going to learn that its current
sports channel lineup is not competitive to retain or
attract new subscribers for not just television, but
high speed internet and telephone. |
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njcablguy
join:2005-05-06
Somerset, NJ | hound,
you sound like a broken record. stop trolling. you don't like patriot - we get it. |
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Hound
join:2006-03-08
Princeton, NJ | Provide us with CSN Philadelphia HD. The home town baseball team. |
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njcablguy
join:2005-05-06
Somerset, NJ
| "provide us"? i don't work there. it should be pretty obvious to you from reading posts from co people that they are for sale. and that you won't get those channels till maybe the next owners decide to offer it.
so, please. enough already. stop posting the same subscriber numbers over and over and stop complaining. i don't think that complaing about it here matters anyway. |
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dsEAGLES
join:2004-12-29
Princeton, NJ | Hound, you are ok in my book.... it can't be said enough.... Patriot Media should not be allowed in Princeton unless they plan to support us as a Philly market, which we are. |
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