christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
 ·Bresnan Online
 ·VOIPo
| reply to Agrajag
Re: Skype now $29.95 a YEAR unlimited calls
I guess there's some folks who still are die-hard fans of Skype and swear by it. Then again, there's some people who believe that AOL dial-up/broadband and their email/IM service is the greatest thing since sliced bread. "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do". LOL!!! Later... Mike.... |
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mazilo
From Mazilo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
Lilburn, GA
| said by christcorp  :I guess there's some folks who still are die-hard fans of Skype and swear by it. Then again, there's some people who believe that AOL dial-up/broadband and their email/IM service is the greatest thing since sliced bread. "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do". LOL!!! Later... Mike.... Amen. I am glad I am not one of those! 
--
Mazi (UK Non-Geo Phone: +44-703-194-2574) |
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RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| reply to christcorp
you're a bit cranky today, Mike. As the defacto comparer of various services, I would have predicted that, of all people, you would be jumping on Skype, if only from the curiosity angle. For one, I would eagerly anticipate your comparison of Skype with your P8, VOIPo, and CowboyVOIP (or whatever else you've got up there in Wyoming).
Personally, a few months ago I burned a CompUSA gift card on a USB headset/mic with the purpose of trying Skype, but never got around to installing it on my overworked PC. I've also been unsure of the "node" angle of it using my PC for resources, but the new version is said to be able to toggle that off.
Whether we like it or not, Skype has become a BFD (P8 doesn't get breathless notices in USA Today) with a huge global market penetration, which will only get bigger with the Ebay connection.
I would value your opinion of the service from a real trial -- not the elitest and unknowing condemnation of a service targeted to the unwashed masses... |
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76766337
join:2004-09-26
Riverside, IL
|  reply to christcorp
said by christcorp :I guess there's some folks who still are die-hard fans of Skype and swear by it. Then again, there's some people who believe that AOL dial-up/broadband and their email/IM service is the greatest thing since sliced bread. "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do". LOL!!! Later... Mike.... Then, if you add the average fees used for 911, tax, fees, etc.... you could be looking at close to $100 a year. Not counting if you wanted to get away from the softphone version and go with an adapter. Still definitely a great price for phone service, albeit a softphone and not the greatest quality. Mind you, my comments are pure speculation. I didn't read the article. I think for the majority of people who are serious about having a phone, and are willing some minor compromises to use voip, that the traditional voip providers like Vonage, Packet8, Viatalk, SunRocket, etc... don't have anything to worry about from Skype as a competitor. Later.... mike.....
What is the analogy between Skype and AOL dial-up? Why would you feel that Skype is, "not the greatest quality"?
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What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left. |
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christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
·Bresnan Online
·VOIPo
| reply to RockyBB
Well, my tongue and cheek was mostly sarcasm. While I have never used skype, I have used quite a few of the softphones over the years. There was a time when I thought Dialpad walked on water as the coolest thing. With the addition of telephone adapters, servers, and other hardware alternatives, I have lost all interest and use for any type of computer based softphone type of voip. Even packet8's free softphone I find useless. I have also found in my experience that no headset/mic combination can compete with a hardware ATA type of setup. But, for some people, especially those where they can't afford an ATA or don't want to deal with traditional VOIP contracts, Skype could be useful.
Now, I do know that Skype and others can be used with hardware type adapters so you can make calls with a more traditional form of telephone. That's better, but if I'm not mistaken, the PC is still involved. That, I don't like. There are way too many options available to not have to deal with the PC as part of the equation. For those always on business trips where a softphone is convenient, that's cool. I still prefer other alternatives to a softphone.
Anyway, as I mentioned, my recent post on Skype was more sarcasm than anything. Just as my sarcasm against AOL can be viewed by some users as incorrect because they really do believe AOL to be great. I admit that after Al Gore first invented the Internet, I had used AOL. I also recommended AOL to many friends and family. IMHO, AOL is a great stepping stone for someone new to the internet and computers. However, once you learn what broadband truly is and what the internet can do for you, people need to grow beyond AOL. Later... Mike... |
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76766337
join:2004-09-26
Riverside, IL
|  Skype is not just a computer based soft phone. There are are WI-FI Skype phones available. In addition Skype is available on the mobile pocket pc. Skype is also available on 3G cell phones as well as WI-FI enabled cell phones. Additionally, there are DECT Skype phones which simply plug into a router and do not require a PC.
With regard to AOL, it was not a "stepping stone for someone new to the internet and computers". The Internet existed for years prior to the advent of the Netscape browser and the ascent of the WWW. People used Archie, Gopher, Veronica and Jughead to access the Internet.
In 1995 there was a dearth of content on the WWW. AOL provided content as well as connectivity via the level playing field of dial-up modems. As the WWW gradually became enriched with content, the availability of broadband increased and the cost decreased, AOL then, and only then, began it's long road to economic irrelevancy.
In the early years of the WWW, AOL was a great value just as the WANG word processor was a great value prior to the advent of the first Apple computers and the IMB PC with WordStar.
Why do you feel that Skype is, "not the greatest quality"?
--
What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left. Do not be be hectoring or arrogant. Those who disagree with you are not necessarily stupid or insane. Nobody needs to be described as silly;let your analysis prove it. |
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pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA
·Mediacom
| reply to christcorp
said by christcorp :I guess there's some folks who still are die-hard fans of Skype and swear by it. Then again, there's some people who believe that AOL dial-up/broadband and their email/IM service is the greatest thing since sliced bread. "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do". LOL!!! Later... Mike.... Um, Ok. Show me another service that provides anything close to Skype for a price anywhere close. I won't be holding my breath...
$30 a year for unlimited outbound is a steal. And the current $14.95 is a hell of a deal. So what SkypeIn is another $38 a year. That is less than $70 (under $6 a month) for full service. |
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Nate425
Premium
join:2005-02-03
Charlottesville, VA
clubs:
| said by pabster : That is less than $70 (under $6 a month) for full service. Only my opinion here, but I'd much rather pay the $30 more (during a buy one get one year free deal) and not be tethered to the computer or to a skype add on , plus everything else that has already been mentioned. |
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pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA | Get a clue.
I use Skype Wi-Fi phone as well as Linksys Skype Phone. Both allow me to use Skype WITHOUT A PC. I use it all the time, I am NOT TETHERED to a PC. Your argument makes no sense. |
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Nate425
Premium
join:2005-02-03
Charlottesville, VA
clubs:
| And you obviously don't read very well.
I said I don't want a skype add on...Let me break that down for you..make it easier to understand maybe. I don't want to buy anything extra to use skype.
It wasn't an argument, I clearly said it was an opinion...you sir, need to "get a clue". |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL | reply to pabster
I'd Hate to see Vonage's Stock Price in a few hours and days. On Amazon.com, you can get the Linksys Skype Phone for $59 and the Wi-Fi phone for $159. Just using the callout feature is pretty awesome. |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
·VOIPo
·Metrocast Communic..
 ·AT&T DSL Service
·ViaTalk
| reply to Nate425
said by Nate425 :And you obviously don't read very well. I said I don't want a skype add on...Let me break that down for you..make it easier to understand maybe. I don't want to buy anything extra to use skype. It wasn't an argument, I clearly said it was an opinion...you sir, need to "get a clue". LOL Nate425!
That's my whole point with Skype. Tried it once, sounded good but I really don't want to purchase yet another phone just to use it away from the house.
--
"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org/index.htm |
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pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA
·Mediacom
| reply to Nate425
Your argument still holds no weight.
You have to "buy" something to use ANY VoIP service. Period. Whether that comes in the form of a higher monthly rate (many are paying $29.95 plus per month) or some other form.
Most of the complaints I've seen relate to Skype's protocol being proprietary and it not being SIP-compliant. Big deal. I don't see anyone handing out free SIP boxes.
Skype doesn't tether you to a PC any more than your telco tethers you to your house to use your POTS line. |
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B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| said by pabster :Most of the complaints I've seen relate to Skype's protocol being proprietary and it not being SIP-compliant. Big deal. I don't see anyone handing out free SIP boxes. There's no logical flow in that paragraph. "Proprietary" implies neither "free of cost" nor "for pay". The closed, proprietary software and closed, proprietary protocol means that not only don't you know what their software is doing on your computer or other device, you also don't know (and can't know) what it's transmitting or to where it's transmitting it and how secure it is from abuse by Skype or other parties. In addition, the non sequitur itself is arguably false as many VoIP providers do in fact hand out nominally "free" (bundled) or loaned SIP boxes with their paid service.
Skype doesn't tether you to a PC any more than your telco tethers you to your house to use your POTS line.
Uh, so it does require that your PC be on or that you have a funky handset that amounts to a PDA? And this for EVERY handset you wish to use at home? As far as I can tell the Linksys Skype phone product you have IS very much tethered to a PC, but the Netgear product is not.
I don't understand how such ridiculously fragile and expensive requirements can be compared to the ease with which any SIP adapter can be added to any telco-wired home in the world and make use of EXISTING or newly purchased traditional corded or cordless phone and accessories from thousands of manufacturers, all using an open and interoperable (where they let it) protocol, and one not reliant upon a single, benevolent dictator of a service, not to mention one with a history of innovation in spyware. As noted earlier, Skype seems to appeal to the same kind of willfully ignorant people that AOL did.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function |
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pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA
·Mediacom
| said by B :said by pabster :In addition, the non sequitur itself is arguably false as many VoIP providers do in fact hand out nominally "free" (bundled) or loaned SIP boxes with their paid service. Ah, so you've proven my point, again. The "free" SIP adapter isn't really free, now is it? The cheapest regular VOIP service I could get would still cost 3X what Skype will for a year, and I think we both know which one wins on reliability. Uh, so it does require that your PC be on or that you have a funky handset that amounts to a PDA? And this for EVERY handset you wish to use at home? As far as I can tell the Linksys Skype phone product you have IS very much tethered to a PC, but the Netgear product is not. A funky handset? The Linksys CIT200 looks just like a modern cordless phone. In fact, most people don't even notice it is not. The WiFi phones are awesome, BTW. In a heavily WiFi covered area (large cities, for example) these can easily replace a cell phone for a fraction of the cost. I don't understand how such ridiculously fragile and expensive requirements can be compared to the ease with which any SIP adapter can be added to any telco-wired home in the world and make use of EXISTING or newly purchased traditional corded or cordless phone and accessories from thousands of manufacturers, all using an open and interoperable (where they let it) protocol, and one not reliant upon a single, benevolent dictator of a service, not to mention one with a history of innovation in spyware. I'm going to assume you're one of the open-source junkies I referenced earlier. If it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside to use a SIP adapter, go right ahead. I'll put the reliability of Skype up against a SIP-based system any day. As noted earlier, Skype seems to appeal to the same kind of willfully ignorant people that AOL did. If getting superior VoIP for a fraction of the cost makes me "willfully ignorant", so be it. |
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christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
·Bresnan Online
·VOIPo
| Well, to start off with Skype in a way to make it somewhat equal to a normal SIP based voip system, where a PC isn't required, would cost approximately $250 to get started. That includes the phone and a year of Skype out/in service. After that, it would be about $70 a year for the service. (Assuming the prices stay about where they are).
Without the PC being on, wiring the house up for multiple phones isn't an option. Being able to adapt it to the many other POTS simulation needs like fax, directv, etc... is also not an option. (Again, without the PC portion involved).
Now, there are definitely some major advantages to Skype. If you are single, or want an auxillary phone, have the PC on all the time and it doesn't bother you, etc... Then Skype seems like a very good choice. If you were a college student living on campus where Wi-Fi is very available, the Skype Wifi would definitely be a great cell phone replacement. You could wonder all over camput and many of the local resturantes without issues. Definitely a plus. Even at $250, that's 6 months of cell service. However, it's not like you can get rid of the cell phone. People do go outside of campus and such, and the skype phone isn't going to be able to replace a cell phone totally.
So, if the PC isn't an issue for you, the Skype definitely appears to be a great choice. $30 for a decent USB phone and $53 for a year's worth of phone service. Can't beat that. If however the PC is an issue, then $250 for the first year isn't such a good thing. I realize that most of us pay that much for traditional voip, but there are many more advantages to traditional voip. "Most" adapters are reusable with another provider. Multiple phones/jacks/extra devices like fax/etc... are capable. So, dollar for dollar, the start up cost of Skype (PC FREE VERSION) and traditional VOIP is close to the same. It's just a matter of which one can offer you what you want. e.g. expandability, portability, 911, reliability, trust, etc... Excellent pro/con debate without fighting. Too cool. Later... Mike... |
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B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
1 edit | reply to pabster
said by pabster :said by B :said by pabster :In addition, the non sequitur itself is arguably false as many VoIP providers do in fact hand out nominally "free" (bundled) or loaned SIP boxes with their paid service. Ah, so you've proven my point, again. The "free" SIP adapter isn't really free, now is it? The cheapest regular VOIP service I could get would still cost 3X what Skype will for a year, and I think we both know which one wins on reliability. Really? 3 times the cost?? You wrote earlier that "full service" with Skype would run you about $6 per month. My current Sunrocket contract is about $7 per month ($7.29) for 2 years. And I have none of the many, many limits a Skype user has to endure. As to reliability, I'll take the reliability of my old corded phones any day over the kind of stuff you have to use with Skype. There's exactly one funky device between my old phone setup and my new one, and can add as many phones as I like for nearly ZERO cost. (Also, there's no "again"; as far as I recall that was my first post in this thread. If your "point" was that Skype hardware costs were comparable to SIP hardware costs, you certainly have NOT made it, even assuming no bundling. SIP: $50 adapter + $5-$20 per phone. Skype: $1,000 PC + $200 per phone.)
A funky handset? The Linksys CIT200 looks just like a modern cordless phone. In fact, most people don't even notice it is not.
The WiFi phones are awesome, BTW. In a heavily WiFi covered area (large cities, for example) these can easily replace a cell phone for a fraction of the cost. The point about the Skype-specific phones is that your choices are very limited, costly, and/or tethered.
Yes, that roaming ability of the WiFi phone sound interesting, assuming one has a casual attitude about using other people's access points and wireless networks without permission. If not, then coverage is awfully limited and/or expensive. (And frankly a PDA or PDA phone, running either a Skype or SIP soft client, seems like a MUCH more flexible solution for this sort of leeching.)
It's interesting to hear you and others say Skype is "superior" VoIP. While I understood that in-network Skype calls were always quite good, from the posts in this forum it had seemed that SkypeOut's quality was iffy at best, let alone "superior" to anything, and particularly bad since the free service was announced. And the PSTN is what it's all about...
Anyhow, continued good luck with Skype.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function |
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bbarrera
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-23
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
·SureWest Internet
| reply to christcorp
said by christcorp :Now, there are definitely some major advantages to Skype. If you are single, or want an auxillary phone, have the PC on all the time and it doesn't bother you, etc... Then Skype seems like a very good choice. I work for a global company with over 1600 people. Over half use Skype on a weekly basis. Everyone in the company is issued a Lenovo Thinkpad and even with laptop's builtin mic the sound quality is superior to regular telephones -- even when making calls to the UK, Germany, India, China, Japan, etc. Full disclosure, if you are in a room with an echo then you need a headset or must position yourself near the laptop mic (I pack a small headset for use with cellphone). Our company has significantly cut telecom expenses without any new equipment or providers. Its easy to see why some businesses are jumping on Skype, integrated IM/phone/video, superior sound quality, and free in-network calls.
In my mind Skype complements telephones (traditional and VoIP), at this time it is not a phone replacement unless you are tech savvy. |
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76766337
join:2004-09-26
Riverside, IL
1 edit |  There you go, I could not have said it better myself.
If you check the "Let Skype adjust my sound devices settings" under tools/options/sound devices in Skype then you should be problem free. |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
·VOIPo
·Metrocast Communic..
·AT&T DSL Service
·ViaTalk
| reply to pabster
said by pabster : I don't see anyone handing out free SIP boxes. How much does it cost to download Asterisk? |
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