'If you build it, they will come.'

Author	All Replies
Raptor Not a Dumptruck join:2001-10-21 London, ON ·Rogers Hi-Speed ·Bell Sympatico	'If you build it, they will come.' FTA (Salt Lake City Newspaper) - "Two businesses have decided to locate in Brigham City partly because of the future availability of fiber-optic broadband" Enough said. It's investing in your town/cities infrastructure. Who said businesses want to locate in high density metropolitan areas. If they can locate in a smaller town, and perform everything via 'new age' communication (video conference, etc), then I think people & companies would do it. Everyone wants to live outside the city anyway. Damn people and their ~~lack of vision~~ need for instant profit. -- ....where's my fiber?
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 09:27:18 ·
TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ ·Sprint Mobile Broa.. ·Comcast	Sure they will: While UTOPIA cables now run near 44,000 homes, the network has just 5,100 subscribers. Eventually the taxpayers in the cities dumb enough to back the bonds will see higher taxes for this government boondoggle. -- -- My BLOG My Web Page
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 09:46:05 ·
KoolMoe Aw Man Premium join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD clubs:	Will they? Just pushing the FUD or do you have actual evidence to support that prediction? KM -- Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 09:51:38 ·
TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ ·Sprint Mobile Broa.. ·Comcast	said by KoolMoe : Will they? Just pushing the FUD or do you have actual evidence to support that prediction? KM There have been plenty of news items showing they are losing money. I see nothing to indicate that that situation will change. Eventually the sales tax increase pledged to back the bonds will kick in. -- -- My BLOG My Web Page
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 10:03:55 ·
KoolMoe Aw Man Premium join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD clubs: ·Verizon FIOS ·Speakeasy	Your avatar fails to hypnotize me into the pro-monopoly stance you advocate! Yeah, not profitable yet. Two years into the project, about $100 million spent, and revenues increased from $123k to $1.5m in the last fiscal year. Pretty good growth, it seems to me, for a two-year old project. And the model is what It Should Be. Private companies owning infrastructure and providing services leads to monopolies, negligible competition, stagnant innovation, and increased prices. Muni-owned infrastructure opened to private companies providing services IS the right way to do this. KM -- Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 10:15:08 ·
pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD ·Comcast	said by KoolMoe : Two years into the project, about $100 million spent, and revenues increased from $123k to $1.5m in the last fiscal year. So they are still down by $98+ million. Even with all of the advantages of not having to pay taxes or deal with regulations like private businesses do, they are still deep in the hole. Who is going to cover that cost? Even if they made $2m a year in revenue it will take at least 49 years to pay off that initial investment and even that doesn't factor in all the money they are going to spend maintaining this network. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk.
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 10:33:10 ·
gatorkram Spelling and Grammer impared Premium join:2002-07-22 Winterville, NC clubs: ·Embarq ·linode	reply to TKJunkMail said by TKJunkMail : Sure they will: While UTOPIA cables now run near 44,000 homes, the network has just 5,100 subscribers. Eventually the taxpayers in the cities dumb enough to back the bonds will see higher taxes for this government boondoggle. So? -- Give me bandwidth or give me death!
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 11:15:50 ·
pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD ·Comcast	said by gatorkram : said by TKJunkMail : Sure they will: While UTOPIA cables now run near 44,000 homes, the network has just 5,100 subscribers. Eventually the taxpayers in the cities dumb enough to back the bonds will see higher taxes for this government boondoggle. So? This attitude is one of the drawbacks of having so many people in the country who do not pay their fair share of taxes. If tax burden was shared equally (in that everyone paid the same percentage of their income in taxes), and everyone actually felt the pain of a tax hike, then people would not be wishing for one or supporting one. In the USA, half of the wage earners pay nearly 97% of all the taxes. The remaining people do not pay an amount proportional to the top half, so they are more likely to support a tax hike because the odds are, they won't see the impact of it at all. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk.
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 11:36:11 ·
ccoggle join:2001-08-06 Salt Lake City, UT	reply to TKJunkMail Somehow I doubt you live in the Qwest footprint. The company refuses to invest in their infrastructure and are just waiting to be bought out. In the mean time anyone in their service zone is forced to purchase their slow antiquated services at absolutely insane prices.
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 11:38:00 ·
karlmarx join:2006-09-18 iraq ·Fairpoint Communic..	reply to pnh102 97% of the taxes are paid by 50% of the people? Hmm.. how about 98% of the wealth is owned by 2% of the people. People who CAN afford to pay more, SHOULD pay more. If you make 250,000.00 a year, I have NO PROBLEM if you pay 150,000.00 in taxes. If you make 50,000.00 a year, I have no problem if you pay 0.00 in taxes. -- Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 11:48:27 ·
KoolMoe Aw Man Premium join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD clubs: ·Verizon FIOS ·Speakeasy	reply to pnh102 Or...they increased their revenue in one year's time by 1000%. If they can keep even half that growth, this year they'll do $9 million in revenue. Hey, suddenly that's 11 years to pay off the investment. They do a quarter of that growth next year, that's $22.5 million. WOW, only 5 years to pay it off! Of course, none of that is profit, more loans will be needed, costs will continue, and the above would be a pretty outstanding growth rate. But it's just as possible as the negativity y'all are insisting upon. AND it allows actual services competition and allows for more consumer choice. Yeah, there's a loss of infrastructure competition which is a necessary downside, IMO, considering the nightmare the current ILEC/Cable monopolies have created. I wonder how long it took AT&T to be profitable with their government credits? KM -- Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 11:53:06 ·
TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ ·Sprint Mobile Broa.. ·Comcast 1 edit	reply to karlmarx said by karlmarx : 97% of the taxes are paid by 50% of the people? Hmm.. how about 98% of the wealth is owned by 2% of the people. People who CAN afford to pay more, SHOULD pay more. If you make 250,000.00 a year, I have NO PROBLEM if you pay 150,000.00 in taxes. If you make 50,000.00 a year, I have no problem if you pay 0.00 in taxes. Your numbers are wrong, but they do suit your steal from the rich to pay for the freeloaders philosophy. »www.ft.com/cms/s/41470ec0-845b-1···340.html Richest 2% hold half the world’s assets 50%, not 98%. So your numbers are WAY off, as usual. And you are preaching to the wrong people at BBR. A big chunk of BBR users fall into the top 2%. See this msg thread: »[Poll] Where do you fall among the world's rich ? -- -- My BLOG My Web Page
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 11:57:54 ·
ninjatutle Premium join:2006-01-02 San Ramon, CA	reply to karlmarx Spoken like a true commie.
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 11:59:10 ·
Raptor Not a Dumptruck join:2001-10-21 London, ON ·Rogers Hi-Speed ·Bell Sympatico	reply to KoolMoe said by KoolMoe : Your avatar fails to hypnotize me into the pro-monopoly stance you advocate! LOL Can't blame him for trying. -- ....where's my fiber?
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 12:29:59 ·
karlmarx join:2006-09-18 iraq ·Fairpoint Communic..	reply to TKJunkMail So, someone who makes 25.00/hr (50K a year) is a FREELOADER? Hmmmm.. You obviously have issues with working people. You active dislike of the 'middle class' is apparent in your postings. I consider 50,000.00 a 'middle class' salary, and count many of my friends in that salary range. Apparently, you support Chomsky who correctly argues that the wealthy use free-market rhetoric to justify imposing greater economic risk upon the lower classes, while being insulated from the rigours of the market by the political and economic advantages that such wealth affords. "the free market is socialism for the rich" -- Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 13:09:08 ·
pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD ·Comcast	reply to karlmarx said by karlmarx : People who CAN afford to pay more, SHOULD pay more. If you make 250,000.00 a year, I have NO PROBLEM if you pay 150,000.00 in taxes. Why? What did someone who makes $250k a year do to you? -- Only SHATNER is Kirk.
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 13:17:46 ·
ninjatutle Premium join:2006-01-02 San Ramon, CA ·Sprint Mobile Broa..	reply to karlmarx The only good commie is a dead one! The rich pay a percentage to tax, the middle class pays a percentage and the poor pay a percentage. Everyone owes their share. If only the rich were required to pay taxes, what is the incentive for them to make more? None. I know I wouldnt work anymore if I had to give it all up to taxes to fund crackhead welfare mothers or for old people. Dream on commie. You belong in the middle east where this takes place.
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 13:20:58 ·
pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD ·Comcast	reply to KoolMoe Re: 'If you build it, they will come.' said by KoolMoe : Or...they increased their revenue in one year's time by 1000%. If they can keep even half that growth, this year they'll do $9 million in revenue. I am sure they could increase the revenue by 100000000000% a year too. Then they would not only be profitable, but they would kick everyone else's butt! said by KoolMoe : Of course, none of that is profit, more loans will be needed, costs will continue, and the above would be a pretty outstanding growth rate. But it's just as possible as the negativity y'all are insisting upon. The only difference here is that if a private company screwed up like this, then only its shareholders would be left holding the bag. When Utopia runs out of money, it will be the taxpayers left holding the bag, even those who did not voluntarily choose to take the risk. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk.
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 13:21:43 ·
KoolMoe Aw Man Premium join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD clubs: ·Verizon FIOS ·Speakeasy	Ah, such is life of the American Tax Payer. When the huge S&L collapse occurred in the 80's, who bailed out this private industry? The poor American Tax Payer... Utopia was voted on and passed, such is the life of the American Tax Payer. The minority are always responsible for the majority's failings. But instead of the doom'n'gloom of how inevitable it appears to you that Utopia will never be profitable and will ultimately need to default on the loans...why not be willing to see how it'll work out? Again, my biggest support for this type of system is the neglect and abuse apparently inherent with the current ILEC/Cable monopolies. Until wireless becomes better and more established - and assuming the ILECs and Cable Cos don't grab up all the frequencies - I Don't Like the current model of infrastructure + services At All. Do you have any objection beyond the possible Tax Payer responsibility IF the project fails (and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that the deals is indeed structured that local American Tax Payers are indeed ultimately responsible). KM -- Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 14:23:24 ·
pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD ·Comcast	said by KoolMoe : Ah, such is life of the American Tax Payer. When the huge S&L collapse occurred in the 80's, who bailed out this private industry? The poor American Tax Payer... This does not serve as justification for the taxpayer to be on the hook for everything. With this logic we should perhaps have taxpayer-backed grocery stores, drink bottling companies and pharmaceutical companies, because after all, these industries are critical and should be insulated from the conditions of the free market. said by KoolMoe : But instead of the doom'n'gloom of how inevitable it appears to you that Utopia will never be profitable and will ultimately need to default on the loans...why not be willing to see how it'll work out? There are plenty of muni-fi projects which "make" money by skimming revenue from other municipally run services. However, government-run entities like Amtrak are proof enough that the government needs to simply stick to what it was chartered to do and not branch out into things that are better suited for the private sector. said by KoolMoe : Again, my biggest support for this type of system is the neglect and abuse apparently inherent with the current ILEC/Cable monopolies. I don't like the fact that there's no In-N-Out Burger near me, does this mean I should petition my town hall to subsidize one? Just because we don't have things that we want doesn't mean that the government should become the solution to all the problems we face. said by KoolMoe : Do you have any objection beyond the possible Tax Payer responsibility IF the project fails My primary objection lays in that governments have greater responsibilities. Things like good schools, low crime, and such are better tasked to local government than running of an ISP. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk.
	to forum · permalink · · 2006-12-19 14:37:38 ·


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