pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Typical
This reminds me of how GM, Ford and Chrysler are trying to push the US Federal Government to nationalize health care because it helps to get those companies out of the messes that they created for themselves.
Cisco seems to be learning well from this. There's nothing in it for them if they take the risk and get into the broadband deployment racket, but since the Federal Government has unlimited funds (us), its ok for us to assume that risk. They get all the reward, of course.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| I'll take that push for a national health care system. It's needed reguardless if it would save businesses some money. On the backend they'd pay higher taxes either way.
The only concern with a national health care system is that it has to have a reliable system of checks and balances to make sure that the healthcare is reliable and reasonable.
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Ubuntu Tips »www.ubuntutips.org |
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DialupFool
join:2005-01-05
North Jackson, OH
| said by NOCMan  :I'll take that push for a national health care system. It's needed reguardless if it would save businesses some money. On the backend they'd pay higher taxes either way. The only concern with a national health care system is that it has to have a reliable system of checks and balances to make sure that the healthcare is reliable and reasonable. Ummm no. We will pay higher taxes. Businesses DO NOT pay taxes. They simply roll up the cost in the product they sell or service they provide. If you think different your living in a dream.
As far as CISCO , maybe I'll buy some more shares, they have been doing well this year.
Later
JimC |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by DialupFool :Businesses DO NOT pay taxes. They simply roll up the cost in the product they sell or service they provide. If you think different your living in a dream. EXACTLY.
I was reading an article recently about how businesses impacted by the minimum wage hikes will have to raise prices now and/or fire people. I couldn't help but laugh as the people being fired probably voted for the pay hike.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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jduffy
join:2006-08-20
Cincinnati, OH
 ·net2phone
·Vonage
·RoadRunner Cable
·Skype
·Callcentric
 ·Cincinnati Bell
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :This reminds me of how GM, Ford and Chrysler are trying to push the US Federal Government to nationalize health care because it helps to get those companies out of the messes that they created for themselves. The car manufacturers did not create the mess. The unions FORCED the mess onto the auto manufacturers. Greedy unions, supported by liberal Democrats, created an environment where unions held these companies hostage until they caved into their demands. This is why American manufactured cars are so expensive and why unions created a situation that caused their jobs to leave the country. They pushed and pushed for more benefits and less work to the point they caused the elimination of their own jobs. However, the auto manufacturers are still stuck with the liability. |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| Feel free to start working 100+ hour workweeks without overtime, and while you're at it, bring your kids into work as their small hands will be useful getting small pieces of coal out of the ground. Yeah, I love it when people blame unions for everything.
Now, with that hyperbole out of the way, everything is a two way street. They didn't have to be "forced" into the unions demands-they could've just relocated! (which, BTW, is the solution to all problems here on dslreports...don't have broadband? Move!  ) |
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| reply to pnh102
no this is more like a company that builds Toll Booths trying to lobby for all the interstates to become toll roads because they would of course benefit from selling all those nice new toll booths.
Cisco is that toll booth builder, the ISPs are the toll booth lobby. Cisco supports the ISPs because they know the ISPs will have to buy millions maybe even billions in router hardware to make the two tier internet happen smoothly.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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dodgetech2
join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA
·ProLog
·Vonage
4 edits | reply to jduffy
said by jduffy :The car manufacturers did not create the mess. The unions FORCED the mess onto the auto manufacturers. Greedy unions, supported by liberal Democrats, created an environment where unions held these companies hostage until they caved into their demands. This is why American manufactured cars are so expensive and why unions created a situation that caused their jobs to leave the country. They pushed and pushed for more benefits and less work to the point they caused the elimination of their own jobs. However, the auto manufacturers are still stuck with the liability. Yeah, right......you should to compare the salary and benefits of the CEO's to that of the union workers and see who is greedy...Give me a break.
Rick Wagner,the CEO of GM made 4.7 million in salary and bonus in 2005......I wonder if any UAW members made that?? |
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Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | reply to pnh102
Except that historical evidence doesn't support this at all. Not to mention the "raise" is actually just to bring the minimum back up to what it was the last time it was "raised" after affecting for inflation. |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | reply to jduffy
This BS message was brought to you by jduffy. If it does not have jduffy on the label, it's not genuine BS. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to jduffy
said by jduffy :The car manufacturers did not create the mess. The unions FORCED the mess onto the auto manufacturers. It is not fair to blame the unions for all of this mess. The union will always fight for the maximum it can get for the workers. The management is supposed to protect the shareholders of the company. In this case, the management agreed to cut checks that it could not cash, knowing that it could lead the company to the brink of ruin as a result. The management is now looking for a quick and dirty way out of the mess that it helped to create.
Fighting the union, and putting up with the consequences of doing so would have been cheaper for the company and would have helped to preserve some sense of financial sanity.
I'm not deflecting blame from the unions for this situation, as they probably also knew they were asking for too much, but it still takes two to tango.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to Ahrenl
said by Ahrenl :Except that historical evidence doesn't support this at all. Not to mention the "raise" is actually just to bring the minimum back up to what it was the last time it was "raised" after affecting for inflation. If what you said is true, then no business would be offering any work for the current minimum because they would not be able to hire workers legally at that wage. The fact that workers were willing to work for the minimum means that that that amount was high enough to attract workers to the job.
I know that in much of metro DC, no employer hires unskilled workers legally for $5.15 an hour. The average entry-level job goes for at least $8-$11 an hour (which is not much for this area).
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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kdandaoc
join:2003-10-13
608052427
| reply to dodgetech2
What a fool...I do believe that person needs a history lesson. In the 1940s and 1950s the big three car companies made the deal with the devil. Instead of giving thier workers salary increases, they chose to offer benefit packages. Every time a new collective bargaining agreement would pop up, the 3 would sweeten the benefit package because at the time, it wasn't through the roof like it is now. The healthcare costs have been rising annually 20% since Hillary care in the early 1990s. Now the the 3 are trying to bail out on what they are contractually obligated for. (that mentallity would have you in favor of the ISPs not obligating thier contracts via throttling, invisible caps etc.. in other threads)
So don't blame the unions for the exccessive greed of the corporations! |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to dodgetech2
said by dodgetech2 :Rick Wagner,the CEO of GM made 4.7 million in salary and bonus in 2005......I wonder if any UAW members made that?? I'd hate to be a GM shareholder... knowing that the CEO made that kind of money and the company is on the brink of going out of business. They could hire me to run the company into the ground... I would do it for far less 
Of course, if GM was making money hand over fist under this guy's leadership, I would be all for him making way more than that.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
1 edit | reply to DialupFool
said by DialupFool :
Ummm no. We will pay higher taxes. Businesses DO NOT pay taxes. They simply roll up the cost in the product they sell or service they provide. If you think different your living in a dream. I guess you failed Economics 101.
While this line is an oft-repeated simplist platitude spouted by right-wing talk show hosts, anyone who's passed freshman microeconomics should know it is not this simple. Just because the cost to produce a good increases, does not mean that the price a seller can obtain for the good will increase by an identical amount. Saying so ignores the effect in the market of the resistance on the part of buyers to higher prices.
Typically, an industry-wide increase in cost (from, say, higher price for raw materials or increased taxes) results in somewhat higher prices, less goods sold, and less profits; i.e., both the consumers and shareholders bear the burden of the cost increase. |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :The union will always fight for the maximum it can get for the workers. The management is supposed to protect the shareholders of the company. This is tough for management to do, given that the union effectively has monopoly power in the market for supplying labor to a union shop. A power that they are more than willing to protect with intimidation and violence.
Sorry, the thuggery that union members engage in, and are even proud of, combined with unions' almost universal defense of mediocracy (e.g., everyone gets paid the same no matter how bad they are at their job; only the entertainment unions are the exception), get them no respect in my book. |
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| reply to pnh102
the union isnt all bad(great healthcare at UPS). the problem is in a Union Shop you cant get rid of the slackers and only keep the workers. and then there is the whole Seniority thing, you could be a totally crap worker but if you have more years then me and i bust my ass and always do complete and accurate work. you have a better chance at a promotion.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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