David
No,there is another.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
clubs:
 ·DIRECTV
 ·magicjack.com
 ·AT&T Midwest
| reply to imsystem
Re: [Line Problem] Cant upgrade but im close enough
Yea I would do it with a splitter. If you only have one phone line and know where the wires come in at and it's accessible (like in a basement coming in from outside) I would get a wire block with a pigtail 4 pin connector on the end of it and terminate all the wires there to that block, then make a dsl jack to one side of the splitter (data) then make another jack for all your phone service equipment.
If I had a working camera at the moment I would take pics of mine and show it off. It's quite unique in it's own kind.
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!
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AlphaOne
I see
Premium
join:2004-02-21
| reply to d_l
Butt Splice |
 is referring to this one: »www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ···Document
--
something incredible is waiting to be known - Carl Sagan |
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imsystem
join:2004-04-02
Red Bluff, CA | reply to d_l
No based on the results i seen and the fact we are adding a new phone jack to were the pc will be moved. I plan on getting a splitter in a few months. |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
2 edits | reply to imsystem
If you decide to stick with the microfilter or if you replace it with a POTS splitter, you might want to redo those splices you made with splicing "peanuts" to make them more permanent. See this thread for photos of the peanuts: »Residential Install with PICTURES!!!!! I used the yellow ones (rather than reds) on my splices. You can buy them at Radio Shack or Home Depot.
I'm glad you could get your max attainable up to the levels that your attenuation was saying it should be at. Your thread here may become a classic example of how much "damage" complicated inside wiring can do to the potential speed of a line.  |
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AlphaOne
I see
Premium
join:2004-02-21
| reply to imsystem
Marvelous!
Congratulations, you'll have Elite in no time!
IF you ever had a tech visit your NID, I'd like to see his reaction on how you wired that microfilter. 
--
something incredible is waiting to be known - Carl Sagan |
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imsystem
join:2004-04-02
Red Bluff, CA
| reply to d_l
thank you d_l in fact as we were typing here the tech helping me in att-direct forum did the line test from his side. The results were better then mine from home. He informed me that i would qualify for elite. So i am going to att.com now to order the upgrade.
DSL Down
Relative Capacity Occupation (0 - 100%) 17
Noise Margin (-64 to 63 dB) 27
Transmitted Signal Power (-31 to 31 dBm) 7
Signal Attenuation (0 to 127 dB) 24
Max Attainable Bit Rate (Kbps) 8128
Current Bit Rate (Kbps) 1536
Cell Count 2691532649
DSL Up
Relative Capacity Occupation (0 - 100%) 44
Noise Margin (-64 to 63 dB) 23
Transmitted Signal Power (-31 to 31 dBm) 2
Signal Attenuation (0 to 127 dB) 14
Max Attainable Bit Rate (Kbps) 992
Current Bit Rate (Kbps) 384
Cell Count 733446139
looks much better then before rewire.
DSL Down
Relative Capacity Occupation (0 - 100%) 57
Noise Margin (-64 to 63 dB) 11
Transmitted Signal Power (-31 to 31 dBm) 17
Signal Attenuation (0 to 127 dB) 24
Max Attainable Bit Rate (Kbps) 2880
Current Bit Rate (Kbps) 1536
Cell Count 2378820949
DSL Up
Relative Capacity Occupation (0 - 100%) 53
Noise Margin (-64 to 63 dB) 16
Transmitted Signal Power (-31 to 31 dBm) 1
Signal Attenuation (0 to 127 dB) 15
Max Attainable Bit Rate (Kbps) 800
Current Bit Rate (Kbps) 384
Cell Count 678814042 |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
1 edit | reply to imsystem
I edited my last post to point out that your max attainable upload speeds seemed like they might be low in the first stats you posted. Maybe too low for Elite.
Why don't you post another set of stats here along with the readings/chart from the Speedstream tool so we can see what your line looks like with those modifications? You can post the chart here directly by saving a copy to your HD and then uploading it.
If those readings look good, then ask a tech for another official line reading from their end to be certain their max stats equal or exceed ours. |
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imsystem
join:2004-04-02
Red Bluff, CA
1 edit | reply to d_l
box closed cant see filter | 
filter tuked in | 
filter pulled out to see wiring |
I wish i had seen those links you posted before i did mine though. See i thought about just plugging the filter into test port but instead i cut the connector off the filter and made a wire to wire connection. One more question in the link for making your own splitter it shows 2 inline filters. Why is that? and is that important?
Also do you think i Am ok to order the elite package with no problems or them canceling the order.
[edit]
got the order question answered in the att direct forum so im all set guys. Thanks to all of you that contributed info and answers. If not for you guys i probably would have broken something. |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
2 edits | reply to imsystem
Clear up your inside wiring problem and your line looks like it can handle Elite easily. (Edit: It was just pointed out to me that your max upload speed wouldn't qualify. I wasn't even paying attention to that metric in your posts. I believe the tool isn't correctly estimating your upload speeds because your upload output power levels are so low as seen in your original post, but those stats say that the line would barely make it for full upload speeds.) If you end up with a Hybrid 2 after adding a splitter or microfilter, it isn't going to hurt your Elite speeds so it wouldn't matter.
A microfilter may be temporary or one might last a long time. We've heard about them lasting for several years or more.
Could you post a photo of the wiring in your NID so we have a better understanding of what you will work with? Also if you use a splitter or a microfilter, it would be best to have only the DSL modem on the DSL line. The layout you posted above of your lines would defeat the purpose of a splitter.
You should be able to use the existing wire to the DSL modem if you limit that line to DSL only. Some people use new Cat5e or Cat3 cable to minimize the influx of RFI into their DSL line, but with your signal strength that really wouldn't be necessary. |
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imsystem
join:2004-04-02
Red Bluff, CA
| reply to d_l
the lines to dsl and all phones use red and green. I already wired in a filter at nid as you guys were posting. My new stats in home are a bit better then at the nid test port.
2007/01/11 20:31:00 GMT E |DSL |HYBRID 2
SN Margin (dB)28.0-
Line Attenuation (dB)24.0-
Loss of Signal0-
Loss of Frame00
CRC Errors12
Downstream Maxrate (Estimated): 8028
Upstream Maxrate (Estimated): 690
Bit tones with notches/missing bits:
bit(s) 42:53 181.125 - 232.875 KHz
bit(s) 56 241.5 - 245.8125 KHz
Looks good enough for elite speed correct.
also still one question remains. If i go buy a splitter do i need different wiring? Or will the yellow/black/green/red work. Cause after wiring in this filter i do realize this is only a temp fix and not a long term one. |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
1 edit | reply to imsystem
Here are some examples of microfilters used as a splitter if you can't afford the $25-50 to buy a POTS splitter.
»Networking Forum FAQ »How can I make my own splitter?
»AT&T Southeast Forum FAQ »I don’t have a splitter. Can I use an in-line filter for a home run?
The microfilter isn't as weather resistant or as environmentally durable as a POTS splitter and may fail after a while, but you have spares to replace any that die on you.
Edit: I'm astonished that all your inside wiring added up to be equivalent to a hybrid 3. For testing purposes, I tried to make a hybrid 3-level bridge tap on my line with some reels of spare wire that I have. I never could get the modem to see all that bridge tap I added to the line. |
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wayjac
Premium,MVM
join:2001-12-22
Indy
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to imsystem
2line_nid |
You must isolate that phone near the modem.
A 2 port microfilter will do that.
Take a spare 2 port microfilter to the NID, check to see if both RJ11 plugs will attach to the microfilter.
Which pair of wires connects the computer room phone and modem.... red/green or yellow/black
--
God bless our troops |
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imsystem
join:2004-04-02
Red Bluff, CA
3 edits | reply to NormanS
ok my box is not like that either. But from the new pictures i understand whats being talked about.
link to picture of my box
»www.hostmystuff.net/myimage/albu···0box.jpg
/1 phone
----
/ \DSL
----NID
\
----phones
I will be testing at the nid test jack in the next 30 minutes and will edit this post with the results.
Testing at nid info below
+000 days 00:05:13 E |DSL |HYBRID 2
Downstream Maxrate (Estimated): 7780
Upstream Maxrate (Estimated): 690
Bit tones with notches/missing bits:
bit(s) 43:58 185.4375 - 254.4375 KHz
bit(s) 114 491.625 - 495.9375 KHz
SN Margin (dB) 26.5 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 24.0 -
Loss of Signal 0 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 1 2
now if i remove the phone on the dsl line and wire a filter at the nid should that bring my stats up like this or close to in in home. or will only a splitter do that. Also if i filter it at the box will that be good for all my in house phones or do i still need a filter at each location.
Lastly if i do this either way do i need the newer wires or can just the red green wires work. |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
1 edit | reply to imsystem
said by imsystem :I am not quit understanding what your saying. My box is bigger then those and has spots for 2 separate phone lines. Yet only line one is hooked up now not line 2. I don't have the spare money to buy new boxes to mount outside like that. Then you probably have the CAC-7600 type NID. It has "sled" modules, as shown by Wayjac. You can obtain a "sled" module which is a DSL splitter. Same site that I linked.
If you can't afford the price of a DSL splitter, there are people who have reported success by kluging a microfilter inside of the box. Again, Wayjac shows a screen shot of how to do it.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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wayjac
Premium,MVM
join:2001-12-22
Indy
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to imsystem
Does your NID look like this one The line that connects all the phones in the home, needs to be isolated from the line that connects the computer room phone and modem.
The computer room phone will still need a microfilter connected.
At the NID you can use a microfilter to isolate the line that connects all the phones in the home.
--
God bless our troops |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
2 edits | reply to imsystem
If you have this:
----DSL
/
----NID
\
----phones
then you have an inside wire, bridged tap. Unless the two wire legs together are well over 50 feet long in total, then they aren't causing your hybrid 3 condition. I think it is possible that the modem could see both a bridged tap for a hybrid 2 AND one for a hybrid 3, but would only report the hybrid 3. This is why we urged you to test at the NID. A NID test simplifies the wiring of your connection.
If you have the above wiring arrangement, you may have to install a splitter (or a microfilter) at the NID to divide the DSL side from the POTS side. This will eliminate the inside wire, bridged tap condition.
Your latest stats would probably be barely good enough for the Pro speeds. The line needs a little excess capacity over the 3008 sync speed to compensate for the occasional line noise problems.
Edit: Don't worry about the occasional missing tone bin. We all have them and they are caused by stray EMI/RFI. DSL is designed to work around a few missing bins. |
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imsystem
join:2004-04-02
Red Bluff, CA
2 edits | reply to NormanS
I am not quit understanding what your saying. My box is bigger then those and has spots for 2 separate phone lines. Yet only line one is hooked up now not line 2. I don't have the spare money to buy new boxes to mount outside like that. There has got to be another way to remove the two lines coming from iw to box to make 1. Maybe tomorrow when i am out at box ill take pictures of the set up.
Another thing i noticed was there was only 2 wires each the red and green hooked up to the nid from my iw. Should all 4 be hooked up.
ADDED
i decided to check the other phone jacks filters. 1 had the phone hooked into the data side and 1 had not filter. So i changed the one and added filter to other and my results went up for max
Downstream Maxrate (Estimated): 3464
Upstream Maxrate (Estimated): 690
Bit tones with notches/missing bits:
bit(s) 38:43 163.875 - 189.75 KHz
bit(s) 139:255 599.4375 - 1104 KHz
and new stats
SN Margin (dB) 18.5 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 22.5 -
Loss of Signal 0 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 1 2
db came up some thats good right. I still get a hybrid 3 in logs though Hope i can isolate that tomorrow when i hook directly to test port
can somone that knows explain
Bit tones with notches/missing bits:
i notice now there is only 2 of them |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
2 edits | reply to imsystem
DSL Splitter at the NID. |
If your NID box is more like mine, you get a DSL filter like mine. You move the wire pair running to the telephones from the NID to the splitter, attaching them to the "Voice" pair of terminals in the splitter. You move the wire pair running to the modem from the NID to the "DATA" pair of terminals in the splitter. You take about one foot of CAT 3 phone cable and use the Line 1 pair (blue/blue-white trace) to connect the pair in the NID to the "Network" pair in the splitter.
See the screen shot for details.
P.S. Here is a link to a source:
»www.hometech.com/techwire/dsl.html
Last two items on the page. One unit made by Suttle, the other made by Corning.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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imsystem
join:2004-04-02
Red Bluff, CA
1 edit | reply to imsystem
said by d_l :If you have multiple inside phone wires all connecting at the NID, then your inside wiring is making short bridged taps too. Ideally DSL needs a continuous wire pair from the DSLAM to your modem without any branches or stubs off that one pair. Each time the wire branches, you have another bridged tap. I overlooked this part when i read your reply. I did notice when i opened the box to see were the test port was that there was 2 separate phone lines run to the line 1 side. One line went one way powering all the phones in the home. The second one went into the computer room wall jack powering one phone and modem. So that might be the bridge. If so how do i tie in both those lines without causing a bridge. |
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imsystem
join:2004-04-02
Red Bluff, CA
1 edit | reply to David
thanks for all the help and info guys. I posted in the direct forum with all this info asking about the bridge and getting it removed. |
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