Blue2
Premium
join:2004-04-14
France
| reply to EGeezer
Re: What was not presented in the defence of the accused
said by EGeezer  :Here is a biography of and statement from the expert defense witness who was not permitted to testify. Quite a read. That was a fascinating read Egeezer.
Now, if she gets some competent legal counsel, she will be acquitted on appeal. Then she will contact one of the top legal firms to sue the school administration for civil damages claiming that due solely to THEIR negligence she was forced to suffer seeing the same pornographic images as the students, and that her reputation and good name have now been irrevocably damaged.
If she succeeds, some school administrator will be fired, and that will serve as the best deterrent to other school systems: "Don't secure your PCs, be prepared for heads to roll and a multi-million dollar lawsuit." Unfortunately, in this day and age, only when it costs, do bureaucracies listen. |
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Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
 ·Comcast
 ·Aristotle Internet
| reply to wehooper
Re: Teacher could get 40 years because of spyware porn pop-ups
Don't even get me started on the school system  The day the school system in America produces real people, will be the same day such an Act, produces students; Judgement could be moot! Now if this article could center on adults, with a maturity issue of a 12 year old.....[It's open].
Schools and the internet...More ignorant than some who produce babies and I should know! 
School systems and the internet are it seems, illiterate, perhaps.
Sounds more like complete ignorance, something flavoring the idiocy that seems to pervade our life.
Now, if 'They' could just concentrate on an educational process, this might have been worthy. But, what was I thinking! 
I'm really bad and this could belong in a forum other than this  But, I watched American Idol because my Daughter wanted to; this show was a blatant example of a failed system and yes, it's relevant to the topic, just taken a step further and on to TV. In fact that show perhaps, represents the failed school system @ least on the front end of First come, first serve; I me and myself vs Something to offer. Had a few real contenders.
Teachers are undermined, many are under paid and some don't care; some teachers can't pass the tests they teach! ....But, that won't excuse a failed Internet Administrator.
This would make a great Current event topic...Huh! It does. |
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EGeezer
Go Bobcats
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Country! | reply to tim_k
What was not presented in the defence of the accused
Here is a biography of and statement from the expert defense witness who was not permitted to testify. Quite a read. |
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tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
 ·Millenicom
 ·WildBlue
1 edit | reply to Mele20
Re: Teacher could get 40 years because of spyware porn pop-ups
said by Mele20 : Evidently there was no computer savvy person on the jury either. In the few times I've been on jury selection, it was often the case that people who had half a brain were kept off the jury. |
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Oleg
Bellsouth Fastaccess
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL | reply to wehooper
I think judge and police do not know much about computers. |
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Mike10021
@rr.com
| reply to thender2
I wouldn't count on any help from the students themselves. You have to remember how cruel kids at that age are. There's a possibility she may have been an unpopular substitute, so the kids blew the situation out of proportion to their parents to get her fired. All-in-all, this case is a disgusting display of a lack of justice in this system. In case you all haven't figured it out yet, our justice system is broken and needs to be fixed. |
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EGeezer
Go Bobcats
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Country!
 ·Callcentric
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to wehooper
More ignorance revealed
here is another look into the knowledge level of the Norwich PD "cyber sleuth" -
Unless the reporter left it out, he fails to recognise that all of the wireless security that the local police department espouses will not protect wireless users from a even a relatively unskilled hacker.
No mention of using a limited or reduced privilege system account when on a WiFi network. No mention of firewalling, AV, AT or turning off file and printer sharing. No mention of using strong passphrases, WPA - or even weakly secured WEP encryption available on all current WiFi routers and cards.
Hell, the stereotypical PFY would own this guy's PC in a few minutes.
said by article :
f you've already gone wireless or are planning on doing so, police have some tips when using the factory software included with your router and network cards that include:
1. Change the default SSID (network name)
2. Disable the SSID broadcast option
3. Change the default password needed to access a wireless device
4. Enable MAC address filtering
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle |
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bcool
Premium
join:2000-08-25
The Ozarks
| reply to Qorum
Re: Teacher could get 40 years because of spyware porn pop-ups
said by Qorum :
The moral of the story being, 'Stay away from children they're nothing but trouble.'
you speak volumes, partner. I'm never alone with anybody that ain't over 21. Period!
--
"in flagrante delicto" |
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Psicop
More human than human
Premium
join:2005-12-21
| reply to wehooper
Moral of the story:
quote:
Albert Einstein:
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
Let's hope stupidity doesn't ruin the life of that poor school teacher.
 |
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Qorum
@uu.net | reply to wehooper
The moral of the story being, 'Stay away from children they're nothing but trouble.'
Of course if we weren't living under the yoke of a heavily armed police state it wouldn't be a cause for concern. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
2 edits | reply to KyeU
Preston Gralla, the Computer World writer who sided with the prosecution, has just made a retraction after getting more than four dozen replies to his article that strongly criticized his conclusions.
"I can't say that I know the truth in this case, because I haven't personally seen the teacher's PC. But if in fact it was infested with spyware, as people say, and if the school system let the site filtering lapse, then what happened is a miscarriage of justice. And if that's the case, I clearly wrote my blog before knowing the facts, and was flat-out wrong."
»www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/4358
More from Alex Eckelberry tonight also:
"It takes a quite a man to make a statement like that. Preston: I salute you."
Alex goes on to recap the situation and mentioned some facts I was unaware of. The computer had multiple user accounts, porn had been on the computer for a long time, the school district had told the teacher that under NO circumstances was she to turn off the computer, she tried to block the kids view of the computer with her body.
This fiasco and travesty of justice just gets more shocking.
»sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"
»www.msfirefox.com/ |
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CPU S
@telus.net | reply to Mele20
Well said, Mele20.
But I think the Judge and Jury needs a guideline to follow before they judge a person. They only followed what rules were in place. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to La Luna
said by La Luna :I see people blaming everything but the right thing....the US (LOL!!), W98 and/or XP/SP2 being "force fed" (of COURSE it was MS's fault!!  ). There's thousands and thousands of people living IN the US using W98/XP/SP2 who haven't been hijacked. No, you misunderstood. The school's computers either had 98 or XP SP1. The incident occurred only two months after SP2 was issued and BEFORE SP2 was force fed. Since the school had let its firewall software license expire, the observation was that it was highly likely that the school also did not upgrade the OS. Either they were using 98 or had XP but had SP1 which was much more vulnerable and probably only got SP2 when MS force fed it which was AFTER the incident occurred.
As for the attorney being negligent in not calling in a computer expert.... when you are totally ignorant generally you don't know how ignorant you are and that causes misjudgments. Look at the prosecutor...same thing. He and the plaintiff's computer expert...neither evidently knew...nor did the judge or the jury how truly, abysmally ignorant they all were. Even the jury could have spoken up and stopped the nonsense. Evidently there was no computer savvy person on the jury either. The ignorant were arrogant in their ignorance and it wasn't just the defense attorney. The defendant was evidently just as computer ignorant as the rest or she would have done something to get a better defense.
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"
»www.msfirefox.com/ |
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La Luna
Surviving Ashraful
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
clubs:
·Optimum Online
·Vonage
| reply to wehooper
The problem isn't so much that the defense lawyer is computer "illiterate", the problem is that he KNEW it and didn't get a REAL computer expert to help and testify.
I see people blaming everything but the right thing....the US (LOL!!), W98 and/or XP/SP2 being "force fed" (of COURSE it was MS's fault!! ). There's thousands and thousands of people living IN the US using W98/XP/SP2 who haven't been hijacked.
The reality is that this woman had a lousy, crappy lawyer who didn't do his job. A competent computer expert could have turned the whole thing back on the school in about two seconds by showing how they did not maintain/secure their computers. The teacher probably could have sued them for mental distress...after all, it was THEIR fault that she ALSO was forced to look at porn against her will.
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~~Well, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, I think you're crazy, just like me...~~
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Blue2
Premium
join:2004-04-14
France
| reply to wehooper
Yes, agreed Mele. My guess is that this woman did not realize what had happened to her and that this was a technical issue.
Being computer illiterate, you usually have no idea what you don't know. So you don't even know who to ask for help. I remember my own first (and last) hijack experience (which brought me to BBR). I was in complete disbelief.
I hope that Alex took good notes on his discussion with this lawyer, whose admission of being computer illiterate will probably be enough to grant a re-trial. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to Blue2
said by Blue2 :In this case, this lawyer stating that he is computer illiterate is simply NO excuse. He is responsible to give his client the best defense possible. Stating that he is computer illiterate is tantamount to saying that he was incompetent to do so and he should be brought before the Bar association. Of course that is no defense. He didn't even state this until Alex evidently got him to admit it way after the fact. He should not have represented the defendant in the first place. Why she kept him is a bit of a mystery. Perhaps, she couldn't afford a better attorney who was more qualified to defend her...she was doing substitute teaching. There is a lot we don't know.
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"
»www.msfirefox.com/ |
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Blue2
Premium
join:2004-04-14
France
| reply to Mele20
Of course, you're right Mele. As I previously indicated, "This perhaps shows that a prosecutor wanting to set an example or make a name for himself, a computer-illiterate judge, and a bad defense lawyer can be dangerous to your health."
But all professionals have areas of specialty. An eye doctor doesn't treat a broken leg, and any eye doctor that would do so, unless it was a medical emergency, would be brought before the AMA.
In this case, this lawyer stating that he is computer illiterate is simply NO excuse. He is responsible to give his client the best defense possible. Stating that he is computer illiterate is tantamount to saying that he was incompetent to do so and he should be brought before the Bar association. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to Blue2
said by Blue2 : So I'd blame the defense lawyer for not making it obvious how easy a hijacking is, showing how it could have happened to any of them. How could he do that? He has admitted that he is computer illiterate. This was a case of the blind (computer illiterate prosecuter, cop, and judge), leading the blind (the defense attorney) and asking the blind (computer illiterate jury) to make an informed decision.
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"
»www.msfirefox.com/ |
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Blue2
Premium
join:2004-04-14
France
| reply to Link Logger
said by Link Logger :This is proof that there is something very wrong in the US ... Blake It's called rush to judgement, but it isn't just a US problem. Whenever there is a "sensationalist" issue, the media gets hold of it and it makes headlines. Then the accused's fate is decided, knowing that everyone is watching.
I have a friend who upon getting divorced had his wife accuse him of molesting their child. He spent a year in a French jail until he was acquitted. The shock value of the accusation over-weighed the fact that there was no evidence.
When the accusation requires expertise to evaluate, such as this one, it gets over-simplified. The jury probably knew as much about the technical issues as they knew how to secure their own computers. So I'd blame the defense lawyer for not making it obvious how easy a hijacking is, showing how it could have happened to any of them. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to Link Logger
Alex Eckelberry has promised experts pro bono but I would think that the more help available, the stronger the appeal will be. The defense attorney admitted to Alex that he is computer illiterate. I've been reading the forum at Norwichbulletin.com and one poster today announced that he has set up a fund to help Julie Amero pay for an appeal:
"If teacher's salaries here in Western Europe are anything like the salaries of US teachers, she will not be able to afford an appeal. I haven't seen any comments from either the ACLU or the EFF, let alone a pledge from them to pay for her appeal (although admittedly, I may have overlooked it). So, I have taken the liberty of setting up a fund for it.
Donations can be made through PayPal to help.julie.amero@gmail.com . I promise that I will not use this account or any donations to my personal advantage. I would greatly appreciate it if someone could forward this message to Julie Amero and her attorney, and ask them to contact me through the email address mentioned, so that we can make sure the fundraising is handled properly and the account can be signed over to her. "
»forums.norwichbulletin.com/viewt···7ef9e6ce
I hope that fund gets set up properly soon so that people can feel comfortable in contributing and knowing it is going to her and her attorney.
A computer consultant today posted at the Norwich forum and he thinks the school was using W98! He says that even if they were using XP that this incident occured only two months after SP2 was released and before it was force fed to users and he doubts seriously that the school would have upgraded at that time.
What would be nice would be if we had access to the trial transcript. I'm wondering, like many at the Norwich Bulletin forum, why the ACLU and EFF are silent.
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"
»www.msfirefox.com/ |
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