pmeltzer
join:2004-07-06
Bethpage, NY
|  [Broadband] Introduction, incorrect Insight email language
Hi, I'm Paul Meltzer, SVP Product Management at Insight Communications. A few of you received an email that wrongly communicated the idea that there’s a specific unpublished bandwidth limit on Insight Broadband. That language was flat out incorrect and I understand why it would concern you. It was truly in error, and has been corrected going forward. However, there is a reason for our need to communicate occasionally with some customers which I would like to explain.
First, let me assure you again that there are no specific bandwidth limits on Insight Broadband and no mysterious lines you can't cross. Still, in the interest of all customers, we absolutely must remain constantly aware of traffic levels on the network. When sustained data transfers, at very high rates for extended periods, start degrading network health in an area, we do need to alert individual customers to seek their cooperation, and in some cases to alert them to viruses or other malware causing the problem.
I'm not talking about the periodic or even numerous bursts typical of Internet usage. We want you all to be able to get speeds up to 10 mbps (up to 15 mbps for our Plus service) and to have an Internet experience far superior to anything our competitors can offer. That's our mission every day--keeping us more focused than ever on upgrading nodes, attacking our Internet backbone providers' west coast latency problem, and addressing other local performance issues. But just to illustrate, as some of you have pointed out, some users don't even realize that they've left their peer-to-peer, news, or online back-up settings on in a way that, frankly, no residential ISP is engineered to tolerate.
I emphasize that we're talking about exceptional cases of sustained usage at very high rates for long periods of time. When that traffic is in the upstream, for instance, this results in a home computer performing as a server, a use beyond the scope and the Terms of Service of our residential offering.
Again, I want to assure you that those very few emails that were inadvertently sent out do not reflect the official policy of the company, and I am sorry for the confusion. Nevertheless, no different from previous practices here at Insight and just like every major ISP, we will occasionally need to contact a small number of individuals and seek their cooperation in how they utilize their residential connections to keep a healthy, responsive service up for everyone.
We welcome your comments. Feel free to write me at paulmeltzer@insightbb.com or CEO Michael Willner at michaelwillner@insightbb.com. |
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AJICQ499087
join:2001-12-01
Louisville, KY
| From your update it sound like some of those that received the e-mail might have computers that have become zombie computers and they don't even know it.
Thank you for the update.
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low cost and fast speed is what customers want in broadband |
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kodeman
join:2003-07-26
Henderson, KY
| reply to pmeltzer
Thanks for clearing up the issue. However, as one of the "few" who received the e-mail, I have some issues with the other tactics that were used.
Not only was I contacted by e-mail, but I received a phone call from an Insight tech. The tech basically read the e-mail to me word for word, and when I asked a few question, I was informed that I would be receiving an e-mail that would clarify the matter. So I was sent the EXACT same e-mail again. I also took the time to ask the caller if my connection was being limited in any way, because I had noticed that both my upload and download speeds had been reduced dramatically. I was then informed that there were no limits being placed on my account, and the call was simply to ask for my cooperation in resolving the matter. I agreed to reduce my upload, and was again assured that my account was not limited in any way, and that if the problem persisted that I should call in for support.
24 hours later I contacted tech support only to find out that my modem had been unregistered from the network due to excessive bandwidth usage. The tech that I spoke to informed me that I should have received an e-mail explaining. I told him that I had already spoken to someone, and that i agreed to limit my bandwidth. He agreed that it was noted on my account and did not know why the original caller did not finish the job and restore my connection after speaking to me.
So basically, the situation goes like this:
Notice high bandwidth.
Cancel the account.
Send e-mail.
Call customer and lie about canceling the account.
Tell customer to talk to call tech support later if situation persists.
Customer calls tech support and finds out the truth.
Customer is mad.
None of this may make any sense to anyone, but at least it makes ME feel better!
KodeMan |
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bf1942freak
join:2003-03-12
Loves Park, IL | reply to pmeltzer
Thanks for the clarification...Man how many other companies have there SVP not to mention the CEO post in forums to help the customers having issues with they're services.
Not too many ....Thanks Insight |
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Cutter66
@insightbb.com
| reply to pmeltzer
Mr. Meltzer:
This is from insight's email to customers: "It has come to our attention that you have used the maximum amount of bandwidth possible over a 24-hour period and have maintained that usage over a period of 30 days."
How is that any different than what you're saying now? Except for the fact that your stance is now even more vague than it was in the email. How can you say that there are "no specific bandwidth limits" when these emails are proof of just that. I refuse to believe insight is so loose a company that it has no protcol for what it deems an abuse. I also don't believe that the only ppl insight are restricting are those who "max out" 24/7 for a month. One customer said they were "flagged for uploading 5 gigs in 24 hrs." This isn't even in line with what the email says, therefore it is yet another "mysterious line."
Now, I'm not saying the customer's always in the right, but insight should be more candid in what they believe a customer can do wrong. That way they can avoid crossing any "mysterious lines" while still enjoying their paid service as they see fit. Saying that a customer is a good customer until suddenly they are deemed an abuser isn't a good way to treat them.
Regards,
PPC |
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dinzy
join:2004-11-09
Urbana, IL
| reply to pmeltzer
How many customers are their typically per node? Isn't it 200+? I find it hard to believe that any one user's use could effect the bandwidth for the entire node. Even a handful of users should be fine.
The only way that it could be a problem is if Insight is doing its math wrong. The decision to switch from 4/384 to 10/1 was probably based on some calculation that they would only need to provide a certain average bandwidth per node. It appears that the number they arrived at was incorrect on the low side and instead of upping the capacity they are claiming that people who use it a lot are "hurting" others.
Spinning it as possible viruses, etc is utter crap because those were around before the upgrade and this policy is clearly a new one. It looks like they have already convinced one concerned customer that must be the case.
The bottom line is that the upgrade must have hit some sort of bottleneck in some of their equipment and rather than replace inadequate equipment they are simply laying the blame on the consumer. Now I understand fully that they do not need to provide the bandwidth for 10/1 to all customers 24/7 because typical usage is less than that. The problem is that the typical usage is something that is constantly going up. They really need to find a better way of dealing with this issue. |
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AJICQ499087
join:2001-12-01
Louisville, KY
| said by dinzy  :Spinning it as possible viruses, etc is utter crap because those were around before the upgrade and this policy is clearly a new one. It looks like they have already convinced one concerned customer that must be the case. dinzy, until proven otherwise, I will accept Paul Meltzer post as the honest answer.
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low cost and fast speed is what customers want in broadband |
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dmeyer
join:2002-08-14
Austin, TX
| reply to dinzy
As a network engineer/network administrator, I'm going to play devil's advocate here and take Insight's perspective. They obviously sent the notice because you were consuming FAR more data than the average person uses in a 24 hour period.
If you were using a competitor's service you wouldn't be able to transfer nearly as much data with such speeds, so just be glad Insight is giving you the leniency they already have. And if you are indeed abusing the service running unthrottled P2P or warez trading apps you deserve to be terminated from the service. I hate users who run P2P apps and let it consume 100% of their bandwidth 24/7. What a pain in the a** for the other users on your node. There is no way a normal user who downloads a few songs/videos a day could receive a TOS notice. |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| reply to pmeltzer
said by pmeltzer :Again, I want to assure you that those very few emails that were inadvertently sent out do not reflect the official policy of the company, and I am sorry for the confusion. I think your subscribers deserve a better explanation than this. Management did not "inadvertently" ask customer support to identify heavy users, then "inadvertently" request that they be warned. One of your employees was not "inadvertently" tasked with composing this e-mail, then "inadvertently" submitting it to his or her supervisor for approval. The subsequent approvals were then not "inadvertently" tendered and then "inadvertently" sent to those previously "inadvertently" identified subscribers.
If you have usage conditions which customers must follow, I respectfully request that you make them available in your TOS. Since you have also chosen to make a statement here, I'm sure you'd please these subscribers by detailing them in this thread which you started. Otherwise, this just sounds like phony damage control meant to pawn off unpopular business decisions on the employees which your executives put to task.
Respectfully, more answers, please.
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Wiki Wiki
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge |
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dvarona
join:1999-11-29
Richmond Hill, NY
 ·Covad Communications
3 edits | reply to pmeltzer
Please talk with us, not at us.
You ignore the contradiction between your advertisements and what you actually provide to customers. I don't think people are confused on what their bandwidth is, they are confused on what their total download/upload data limit is. This issue has arisen not only with your ISP, but others as well.
If I have unlimited download or upload usage, then it is illogical and self-contradictory for you to send me a letter stating that I am using it too much. If you disagree with this, then please check the dictionary for the meaning of the word unlimited.
What I am sure that your customers want is a definition of how much is too much. You have steadfastly refused to define what that limit is. To resolve this, you must either remove the use of the word "unlimited" and define what limits are, or provide truly unlimite service. You apparently want the benefit of both sides, e.g., the marketing benefit of saying "unlimited", and yet also the reduced cost of not actually having to provide unlimited access to your customers.
I understand that you are running a business and reducing costs and maintaining profit in a price-competitive industry are of importance to you. It seems reasonable to limit your customers' capacities in order to maintain balance in your goals. But when you say unlimited, IT FULLY APPEARS THAT YOU ARE LYING. To most people this is a non-sensical affront to fairness. Why not be real men (or real women, as the case may be), and own up to your double-talk? Just tell people what the limits are, instead of calling your own customers criminals. There are plenty of end-user applications today that use lots of bandwidth and do not fall in the category of traditional servers such as web servers and e-mail. People will work around them if you'd just tell them how, and part of that is giving some hard numbers.
I wish that I were privy to the actual TOS and your advertisements so that I could give you a word-by-word blow of your failures here. I am not an Insight customer, but have seen this among other ISPs. Our eyes roll whenever you execs talk out of both sides of your mouth at the same time, and I personally am tired of hearing it.
Just don't say "unlimited." Okay? Isn't that easy? If you have the guts to actually respond to this message, instead of just making your original a mere PR release.
--dv |
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dvarona
join:1999-11-29
Richmond Hill, NY
·Covad Communications
| reply to dmeyer
Re: [Broadband] Introduction, incorrect Insight email language
Then is the service unlimited or not? If it is unlimited, then why did they send the message? If it isn't, why not own up to what the limts are?
I don't disagree with the desire and implementation of a limit to reduce network usage. Just tell the customers what the limits are. Give them a meter to say, "you're at 89% for the day before we throttle you down to 25%." Why not? Of course, it's because they don't want to be seen as limited. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
So, all the network administrators have to do is set up a very clear policy with metrics that are easily calculated and leveraged by all. It probably takes a management level decision to do this, and management doesn't want to do it. So it's really not a network admin problem. If you feel annoyance, it's because your managers are playing both sides of the marketing fence.
--dv |
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dinzy
join:2004-11-09
Urbana, IL
| reply to AJICQ499087
Did you read the emails? They listed p2p, newsgroups and viruses as possible causes.
Since people read virus as a bad thing by naming that as one of the possible causes people tend to sympathize with them ans ignore any other information. Clearly you fall into this category and that is precisely why they list that as a cause.
The bottom line is that the people are being cut off for bandwidth usage, not what the bandwidth is being used for. A virus trying to send itself out or collect information or what not will only use 10/1 and p2p or whatever else the "culprit" is. There is no distinction in this new policy and if you fail to see beyond the word virus then you clearly prove my point. Doesn't it seem reasonable to assume that the email was written either by or under the supervision of someone in Insights PR division? P Meltzer Himself is the Senior V.P. of Product management. Methinks that is just fancy for PR, ie he makes sure their service looks good as a product and this is why he is playing damage control.
DO consider the fact that the people who got the emails and then came here to complain all were actively using their bandwidth. There was no spyware, virus , or unauthorized wireless leeching going on yet they still got disconnected.
Until I see something that says otherwise I will beleive that Insight does not have the ability to provide th service they are claiming they can and rather than fix it the right way he chose first to boot the people that actually use the bandwidth w/o any prior warning or even an idea of how much is too much. |
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EvilMoose
join:2003-02-26
Urbana, IL | reply to pmeltzer
Thank you, this means my cat can still listen to her news broadcasts on the interweb!
I'm gonna tell her right now, she'll be so happy. |
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SCAVENGER1
join:2006-11-04
Freeport, IL
| reply to pmeltzer
well i have not received a email as of yet. but i have had my service basically turn off for any were between 8 to 10 hours per day. and that is with in the last week now.
even though i have talk to insight tech support all last week about my connection not being there. and that they could see my modem, but i could not see it via modem log in screen.
and i even sent in my brand new router back for replacement. since i thought it was defective, which it is not. after finding out about the invisible band width cap.
since i play online just about 10hours a day and even more on the week ends. i went with cable since it is faster then DSL. in which help playing online, and down loading all the required patches and driver up dates and MS update and patches.
since this has happen i to will be looking into a different ISP that wont have a invisible band width cap, and if they do they would have it posted in there TOS and not just say nothing and cut you off from service with out even letting you know whats going on.
and i have use up a ton of my minutes via cell phone trying to figure out what is going on with my connection. and those i will never get back or get reimbursed for them as well.
guess im just another unhappy customer of insight! even i have seen some user post that the heavy band width user switch to a business account? which i haven't seen much information on or even prices there of. the insight page on it is very vague on it, since i have been checking things out. |
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dinzy
join:2004-11-09
Urbana, IL | I don't mean to be a dick but proper sentence structure and subject verb agreement would go a long way in helping get your point across. |
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GLIMMER
join:2004-01-17
Urbana, IL | reply to SCAVENGER1
bussiness account cost big bucks and your cable will have to cost bussiness prices also
2/384 for 49.95
4/384 for 69.95
6/512 for 89.95
10/1 for 139.95
15/1.5 for 239.95
www.insightbusiness.com |
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GLIMMER
join:2004-01-17
Urbana, IL | reply to SCAVENGER1
comcast has a limit. And I know for a fact that att does as my mother in law got a letter after I had her connection running for 48 hours straight over xmas downloading updates and uploading pics and some files to my pc's |
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SCAVENGER1
join:2006-11-04
Freeport, IL
| well from what the most of my clan member say, about Comcast is that they don't or don't enforce it.. since they run a lot more on there connections then i do. (example bit torrents)
which i have only done 4 ever since i have been with Insight, and that is just about 4 years. but i do have a lot of up dates for games that i do play.
ps i flunk english since it socks !! but i do keep my paragraphs short. |
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indy0365
join:2001-08-25
Franklin, IN
1 edit | reply to pmeltzer
since i play online just about 10hours a day and even more on the week ends
thats a lot of gaming wish I had time like that oh wait
marraige/work/ kids ah ok nevermind
I don't mean to be a dick ,
too late |
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gulizard
join:2006-11-28
Henderson, KY
| The fact is, this silly policy didn't exist before. At least to your customers, since we most of them haven't changed what they do with their connection, and are suddenly receiving crappy emails.
Seems to me you think that I should be told how much I can use my connection. Listen when I pay for 100KB UP, I am suppose to get that. As long as I am doing NOTHING illegal, then you should really back off. I've never heard of such a silly policy except England. I put my hard earned cash into it, and you guys turn around and in return tell us that we are mis-using our connection. Violating a magical term that was never needed before because you were able to handle those speeds.
Sheesh you'd think a company as big is Insight would be a bit more professional. |
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