AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß
1 edit | reply to dadkins
Re: Unlimited...
I would disagree, unlimited access is unlimited use. If you cap someones ability to download you are effectively stopping their use of the Internet.
How can one use the Internet if you can't "download" a web page. The page is viewed on your PC but much of the content id downloaded to your PC in the form of temp files, graphics, and all the neat little html junk.
How can one transfer e-mail if one can not download or upload the mail file?
Really they should just get rid of the word unlimited...it is a throw back to the days when you paid for hours in the old AOL dial up sense. |
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Nick
Purveyor of common sense
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2000-10-29
Smithtown, NY
clubs:
| said by AnonProxy  :I would disagree, unlimited access is unlimited use. If you cap someones ability to download you are effectively stopping their use of the Internet. Actually, I'll disagree with your disagreement. Nobody is stopping your ability to download/upload content. They are simply reducing your ability to do so by creating a virtual "speed limit".
Perhaps a poor analogy, but I will try anyway. You buy a german sports car. The car itself has an electronic limiter preventing you from going over 130 mph even though if the limiter is removed you can go 150mph. Nobody complains about that. Similarly, the whole speed limit thing. Posted speed limit is 55mph around me, yet people go 70 and don't get pulled over. Some people choose to push their limits and go 80 and they DO get pulled over. Internet companies are really no different, they don't say "you can download 30 gigs a month...and we'll really let you slide at 40..but once you hit 50 we shut off your internet" they say you have unlimited access (which is true) and they try to throttle people who are significantly out of the bell curve.
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Stupidity, like hydrogen, is one of the basic building blocks of the Universe.
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operagost
join:1999-08-02
Spring City, PA
| Number 1, you're talking about VOLUME and not SPEED. If we were using a closer analogy, they would throttle your connection speed down as you neared the limit. In addition, on highways we have speed limit signs so you always know what speed is allowed. ISPs would rather let the fiction of unlimited internet continue to encourage sales while setting secret limits. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
2 edits | reply to AnonProxy
I'm connected ATM, I have been connected for nearly 4 years(barring computer restarts).
To me, that is Unlimited *ACCESS*.
I don't download every single file I see... there's no point in it!
Unlimited Use is just that, lighting up mega-downloads and running 24/7.
No one advertises that, sure as hell not Comcast!
Email?
If you are sending out email at a constant 384-768k(2mbps?), I sure as shit hope they terminate you!
I hate spammers!
If you are downloading hundreds of GB per month, then you are likely degrading the network for everyone.
I hope they actually cut your coax! Sorry!
I pay for Speed and 24/7 Access. I get both!
I am not paying for terabytes of data transfers.
That would cost a hell of alot more than $52.95 per month!
Everything here works "As Advertised". Connection is always up, always fast when I need it, and I always have access to it.
THAT is Unlimited Access.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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Stumbles
join:2002-12-17
Port Saint Lucie, FL | reply to AnonProxy
I have to agree. To me unlimited access implies unlimited use. If you have limited access, then you would have limited use.
I think to segregate access and use is an insult to peoples intelligence. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| I'm connected right now.
That's access to Comcast's network.
I'm not using it until I hit "Post Now!" for this post, or go to a server somwhere and start a download or upload.
All of my various meters indicate that I am not "using" any bandwidth.
But, one of the indicators informs me that I am connected none the less.
Access and use is two totally different aspects of one's internet connection.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to AnonProxy
I am SOOOOO in disagreement with you!
You want to de-evolve? You WANT to go to a metered service JUST so you can know a limit? That's rubbish!
People who consume a lot of bandwidth know it. Not only do they know it, they often then brag about it and then follow it up by "but they told me it was unlimited.."
The system, the way it is, works like this (with cable that is) .. they look at the performance of a node. They see that if it slows down, they first look to why it slows down. If the use is normal and it's just people are using it and clogging up the node, then they have to look into a node split. Second, if it's a hog causing the bottlenecks, they eliminate the hog. And then when the hog is cut off and tries to play the game in return, they wind up walking away butt hurt like this guy...
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL_IrjQoLK0
(a guy that came here looking for sympathy a little bit ago)
People read what they want and walk away from something with what is convenient for them even when the answers are right in front of them. No where does it say "come eat all the data you can!" It is advertised to make things faster.. get things done quicker.. stuff like that. "Download music in an instant.." not "turn your computer on and have it download music non-stop".. that's where the "typical residential use" terms come in. But, those who choose to ignore that very important line, will.
So, to make broadband metered JUST to make those who like to be heavy user feel better about what they do, I'm very much against it.
The service is for residential use, period. Cable TV in general has always revolved around residential use. So long as DSL is out there, those heavy users can take the slower DSL option. If DSL isn't available, then well...? play by the rules of the provider. There is nothing out there that says 'please use the service as you want, it's your right!' .. because it's not.
And for the record, you say "they should just get rid of the word UNLIMITED".... got news for you... you have to go YEARS back to see that word.
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs: | The Cable Companies can't tell you the bandwidth limit as it depends on how over sold the node you are on is.
The Cable Companies also have apologist in every forum to protect their less then honest practices. |
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Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND
clubs:
| reply to fiberguy
I agree with fiberguy.....Another problem with setting a cap is that many users will go right up to that cap every month and stop just before they cross the threshold....
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"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Loker :I agree with fiberguy.....Another problem with setting a cap is that many users will go right up to that cap every month and stop just before they cross the threshold.... So we should not post speed limits on highways as people will travel at that speed?
Verizon has no problem stating 5Gig a month is the limit for digital cell use. Secret limits are the practice of Cable Companies as it varies by node. |
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Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND
clubs:
1 edit | said by batterup :said by Loker :I agree with fiberguy.....Another problem with setting a cap is that many users will go right up to that cap every month and stop just before they cross the threshold.... So we should not post speed limits on highways as people will travel at that speed? I think it is pretty clear that is something entirely different....the government does not have to pay someone for how much you drive like ISP's have to pay for how much bandwidth you use....also your driving the speed limit will not degrade other peoples use of the public road system....
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"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic in
Quake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Loker : also your driving the speed limit will not degrade other peoples use of the public road system.... Driving above the speed limit degrades the ability of others to use the road that is why we have speed limits. The reason Cable Companies will not post a limit is because it varies by node and time of day. If they set a limit today tomorrow the node may not be able to handle it. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to batterup
said by batterup :The Cable Companies can't tell you the bandwidth limit as it depends on how over sold the node you are on is. I agree. However, not all nodes are over sold when it starts.. it's not the airline, so please stop talking about it like it is. Node splits do happen.
The Cable Companies also have apologist in every forum to protect their less then honest practices.
Prove it! The way YOU speak about things, one can EASILY finger you in a similar tone. So, unless you want stones thrown at you, you should really posting in a forum like a 5 year old. The "xxx company has apologists in every forum" is simply a line to post when you have nothing intelligent to say. Just shows the lack of knowledge of a subject you posses.
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"Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to batterup
There are cases where nodes can't handle it and they are addressed.. admittedly, not always as fast as people would want.. but that problem exists in all industries. People want instant gratification - an unreasonable expectation.
But, people like you also have a problem.. a very common problem. Though the market place allows people to voice their desires with the pocket books, the problem is that some people get it backwards. You are buying a service at the companies terms. It's not a socialist issue. We do not have a right to TELL them what to do. We have a right to voice our desires and exercise the right to NOT use the service.. but this notion that we have the right to dictate a companies' business practice is absurd. This is a common misconception here on BBR. You have choices... to use, or not to use. What you don't have is the right to set and order satisfaction, faster speeds, customer rights, or performance other than what is being sold.
NO wire or wireless system is perfect. This is not to say that they don't have an obligation to move on issues, but the unreasonable expectations that people expect is a joke. If a node has a sudden surge in use, you can't expect that it will get corrected in 4 hours or the day, even the next week! Cell towers over load from time to time but they don't , and they shouldn't, jump on it just because. That tower may not be over loaded tomorrow. The node that is over loaded may in fact be over loaded because you have someone or some people pushing their modems to the max which is clearly not considered typical residential use. The day it becomes TYPICAL is when everyone is doing it. THEN it's typical!
As to your driving and speed limits.. we also have minimum and maximum speeds.. and in some areas they expect slower drivers to the right in order to keep their roads flowing smoothly.. some traffic needs to go faster while other traffic doesn't. Hmmm.. now where have I heard that one before? NN anyone?
You can't have it 30 ways, as you appear to have... following your posts, it's VERY hard to follow what exactly your point ever is... you have so many! I personally think you are one of those paid people that you point the finger at others for being so often.
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"Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one. |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by fiberguy :You are buying a service at the companies terms. It's not a socialist issue. We do not have a right to TELL them what to do. There was a time, not that long ago, when America had the best communication system in the world. That system was available to all. The people at that time had the ability to set standards and prices for that system.
Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch. |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß
| reply to Nick
There are two issues,
1. Pure caps...meaning that at x GB of data you are shut off for the month. That's not speed, that's a cap and that is NOT unlimited.
2. Throttling...certainly an issue but not the same as a cap.
To that end cutting speed from your pure maximum speed is an ACCESS issue...to that end if I pay for 10MB down, it's not unlimited but it is advertised a price for a speed, they should not cut my speed based on what I download. |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß
| reply to dadkins
Access is a usable pipe, if they cap you at 10 GB of download a month...and then you can't access the Internet or e-mail. because you can no longer download anything, the pipe is not usable....that is not unlimited ACCESS, that's not even decent access.
By your definition, as long as they are giving you IP and you can't even go anywhere, that's proof of unlimited access.
And more so at least drop the straw man drama.
No one said I'm downloading or uploading or doing anything of the sort at the max capacity...I am offering an example, but as you seem to need to make it inflametory I will give you a simple example.
Let's say I have a business account, I have "unlimited INTERNET ACCESS" (as it is sold. I also have an web based offsite back up of my local business data. Every day I pump out about 300MB of data at 1am or so to my back up service...(I have a decent connection, 10/5)...so I do my thing, we do work every day run the office though the day use the Internet...then on day 16 or so no Internet...because why? I suddenly find out I have a total cap of 9 GB of data on my "UNLIMITED INTERNET ACCESS"
Short version, just tell people what they have, not make up some marketing term to complete.
If a rental car company said you had unlimited miles then charged you for ever mile after 300...they would end up in court by the AG of the state(s) they run in.
Unlimited means unlimited. |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß | reply to dadkins
Absolutely not for this discussion.
The common vernacular of "Internet Access" means that there is the ability to access the Internet for use. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to batterup
Funny though, that my DSL continues chugging along at 6016/768 24/7 without worry about clogged nodes, cable apologists, or the threat of a nastygram due to actual use of the service. I'll start believing people like fiberguy when the cable company he works for removes server prohibitions from their TOS/AUP.
I guess those "cable hog" commercials were right afterall...
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Toolmaster of La Grange.
Save the Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus! |
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Nick
Purveyor of common sense
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2000-10-29
Smithtown, NY
clubs:
| reply to AnonProxy
Ok, we need to clarify something...
Cable companies (while often do,) try not to piss off their customers. Lost customers = Lost Revenue
Cable companies will try not suspend your service which you equate to capping. Capping is "reducing capacity" for you to abuse the infrastructure and hinder other people's service. While before you could download at 10 megabits per second, they throttle you to half a megabit. This is not "denying you access", it's forcefully modifying your behavior in such a way that other paying customers are not affected.
Each Cable company does it differently, some will send you a warning letter saying you have been marked as using exceedingly large amounts of data. Others will throttle you as a warning. Eventually if you are considered as a repeat offender they cut you off. In the end Cable is not a right, it's not written into the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, it's a product you buy just like buying a happy meal at McDonalds, it's a business that must be profitable for it to be around.
As an excersize, locate a local place that allows you to refill your soda for free when you buy it at the place. Bring a large container with you and fill it up with your free soda and see how fast you get thrown out for abusing something you paid for.
--
Stupidity, like hydrogen, is one of the basic building blocks of the Universe.
Gallery * Life * Work |
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