dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
4770
share rss forum feed


aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
kudos:7
Reviews:
·PenTeleData
·Verizon Online DSL

2 edits

[Rant] Rant about Verizon techs. (Warning: Long)

I saw something in »God Damn Verizon!

said by Tzale:

but the truth is the companies think YOU are dumb and that it is YOUR fault..
And that reminds me of what happened one day with Verizon.

For some reason we lost our connection to the Internet.

So I started my web browser, typed in it's IP Address and pressed enter.

I got the password for the device from my text file on my desktop, pasted it in to the logon screen and went to status of the router.

I pressed connect, waited a short period of time, and an error came back. The error said, "Can't Find PPPoE Server."

Since I know that Verizon DSL techs will not trouble shoot third party routers (WRT54G v2, WRT54G v6 and the BEFW11S4), I shut down everything.

I connected a Windows XP SP2 machine directly to the DSL modem, pretended like the connection was a brand new connection.

I used Verizon's CD and selected, "I am existing Verizon Online DSL customer, and I want to reconfigure my computer or configure a new computer to access the Internet with my connection." Well I tried to do that, but an error came up, so I tried again. This time another error came up that said, "the activation server could not be found." So I called Verizon.

I told them upon request.. Windows XP SP2, Westell Wirespeed B90-210015-04 REV C.

When asked what my IP was, I said 0.0.0.0. So they told me to release and renew my IP. So when I did that I got the same IP.

Then they told me how to use PPPoE on Windows XP ( if interested see »Detailed how to for Windows XP PPPoE ). I tried that and still no luck .

So they told me to uninstall (or remove) the NIC card. Which is the d**best thing I ever heard, because while I was connected to one of LANs I could release and renew my IP address.

Hint: Before I turned everything off, I made sure all of the computers could release and renew their IP addresses.

Needless to say, I am not to happy with Verizon anymore.

--
So my question is why do companies think customers are d**b and it is their fault?

Thanks.
--
Please use the "yellow (IM) envelope" to contact me and please leave the URL intact.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
said by aefstoggaflm:

So my question is why do companies think customers are d**b and it is their fault? Thanks.
So they don't have to fix their problems?
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth


Maccawolf
Premium
join:2001-02-20
Hillsdale, NJ

1 recommendation

reply to aefstoggaflm
Actually, I think the MAIN reason is cos a VERY LARGE percentage of their (or any isp's) customer base ARE idiots.

MOST people on the internet don't know what to do when faced with a prompt telling them to "HIT ANY KEY" let alone actually KNOW anything about the inner workings of a computer. I understand this, and MY major frustration comes with my inability to QUICKLY get past the level one yabos when I DO have a problem that I can't fix.
--
"The most affectionate creature in the world is a WET dog"---- Ambrose Bierce


removed
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-08
Houston, TX
kudos:41
reply to aefstoggaflm
said by aefstoggaflm:

So my question is why do companies think customers are d**b and it is their fault?
Because it's true 95% of the time.


David
I start new work on
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:101
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·magicjack.com
·Google Voice
I think it doesn't have anything to do with the Verizon techs, and most ISP's. Over here are some classic samples of "The grass isn't always greener on the other side"

Read and be amazed what some people have told me, and others over the years.

»Funniest/Dumbest User Comments
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!


sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to aefstoggaflm
Verizon DSL TSAs are supposed to support Linksys routers, at least through bridging the modem (if needed) and setting the Linksys to PPPoE or automatic (depending on area). Some of the more clued ones, when facing a combination of modem/router and 3rd-party router, will try to change the router to a different /24 from the modem, and let the modem handle the internet stuff. This has the advantage of being transparent--as long as the customer doesn't mention it (or try port-forwarding), and is also much quicker than bridging the westell.

I've seen and heard the uninstall/reinstall network drivers. From what I could tell during my time there, it was not a common practice but did happen once in a while. I agree it is a stupid non-solution. I tried to discourage anyone else from doing it. Verizon does not support the installation of drivers, so why should they ask people to remove said drivers?

Wirespeed B90? 2100? I don't have the model numbers memorized, but that sounds suspiciously like ye olde White Westell, a dumb modem with no router or PPPoE capabilities. Checking Google right quick, yup, it is definitely ye olde White Westell. With no router between you and it, the only way for you to connect is via XP's PPPoE client.

What error did it give you? 678? At that point, if it were me on the other end, I would've documented that you couldn't connect with router or with connectoid, NIC working fine, line rates OK (did the TSA even try a line test?), and placed you on hold to get authorization to escalate as no-route. I would've also documented that you could not connect using the "test" username and password sets, but I wouldn't have bothered putting you through that pointless exercise.

Unfortunately, most of Verizon DSL's windows tech support has now gone overseas. Only Macintosh support is in the states, and they are often quite busy as their numbers are shrinking as agents are moved to fiber, and they get misdirected windows calls.
--
Think outside the fox...Seamonkey


aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
kudos:7
Reviews:
·PenTeleData
·Verizon Online DSL
I think 678 and I think they did a line test, and said everything is ok at their end.

This happened a while ago (week+ / month+ but no longer than a year), so I can't recall.
--
Please use the "yellow (IM) envelope" to contact me and please leave the URL intact.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to removed
said by removed:

said by aefstoggaflm:

So my question is why do companies think customers are d**b and it is their fault?
Because it's true 95% of the time.
but the other 5% of the time they should be helpful specially if said sub lets them know they are tech saavy.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth

witmer1
Premium
join:2002-09-23
Llewellyn, PA
reply to aefstoggaflm
Companies think people are dumb, because they are dumb. I just installed a Verizon DSL connection after another acquaintence of the customer failed to connect. I looked to see if the DSL filters were installed correctly and on my part, I neglected to check from the wall to the DSL modem. The modem's lights were working properly and looked like it was connected. As it turns out, the first person installed a filter on the line leading to the modem. His reasoning was that he didn't read the directions "because they were all in Spanish". I guess turning the installation guide was too hard to read the engligh portion.

Also, I just had to call Verizon due to a modem reset on my Westell 327W. I was at the PPPoE dialog to enter my username and password. It took me a half hour of telling outsourced foreign support that all I needed is the login information.

I think the problem lies on both sides.


teck_wad

@charter.com
reply to dvd536
said by dvd536:

said by removed:

said by aefstoggaflm:

So my question is why do companies think customers are d**b and it is their fault?
Because it's true 95% of the time.
but the other 5% of the time they should be helpful specially if said sub lets them know they are tech saavy.
lol. the ones who claim to be saavy or tell you they have some M$ certification, are usually dumber than the old ladies that call


Maccawolf
Premium
join:2001-02-20
Hillsdale, NJ

2 edits
reply to dvd536
said by dvd536:

but the other 5% of the time they should be helpful specially if said sub lets them know they are tech saavy.
I think the key word here is SHOULD. In my experience they don't. The ones I have dealt with don't believe you know things, even if you have proven through conversation that you do.
I'm NOT speaking of Verizon though, I'm speaking of OOL, which is the only ISP that I've really tried to deal with to fix issues.
--
"The most affectionate creature in the world is a WET dog"---- Ambrose Bierce


AtlGuy

join:2000-10-17
Marietta, GA
reply to teck_wad
said by teck_wad :

lol. the ones who claim to be saavy or tell you they have some M$ certification, are usually dumber than the old ladies that call
I agree with that. I can't tell you how many times I heard "I'm an MCSE" when I was a dialup tech at Mindspring years ago.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
said by AtlGuy:

said by teck_wad :

lol. the ones who claim to be saavy or tell you they have some M$ certification, are usually dumber than the old ladies that call
I agree with that. I can't tell you how many times I heard "I'm an MCSE" when I was a dialup tech at Mindspring years ago.
Possibly true but that is NOT a networking cert
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth


Fobulous
Premium
join:2002-08-14
Missouri City, TX
Might not be a PURE network cert..

but still:

said by microsoft.com :
The MCSE certification is appropriate for:


Systems engineers


Technical support engineers


Systems analysts


Network analysts


Technical consultants

The MCSE credential is one of the most widely recognized technical certifications in the industry. By earning the premier MCSE credential, individuals are demonstrating that they have the skills necessary to lead organizations in the successful design, implementation, and administration of the most advanced Windows operating system and Microsoft Windows Server System.
To the OP: Verizon DSL Support is usually handled by sub contracting companies and most of the techs are just not really tech-savvy enough to help out plus $8/hour doesn't help things either.
--
After one look at this planet any visitor from outer space would say "I want to see the manager."
- William S. Burroughs

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to dvd536
Wanna take a guess at how many of the subs that claim they are tech savvy are really tech savvy?

Customer: "I own a computer and send email, I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING! I'M TECH SAVVY!"

Tech: "Ok.. then let's get your changed from a static IP to a dynamic IP... "

Customer: ".... what's an IP?"

Tech: ".. this is going to be yet another long day"
--
"Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one.


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to aefstoggaflm
said by aefstoggaflm:

So my question is why do companies think customers are d**b and it is their fault?

Thanks.
Because 99 and 44/100% of the time is some thing like an unplugged router. I ass/u/me the first thing you did was plug your modem into the NID with no router and check from there.

Oh, never, never install anything form the Verizon CD.


questioner

@server4you.de

Why or why not install Verizon's software?

said by batterup:

Oh, never, never install anything form the Verizon CD.
Why not? What kind of bad things would it do?


Lagz
Premium
join:2000-09-03
The Rock
said by questioner :

said by batterup:

Oh, never, never install anything form the Verizon CD.
Why not? What kind of bad things would it do?
Here is one example. Their are many more examples like this posted all over the internet. »welchwrite.com/techiq/labels/sof ··· are.html
I was called today to resolve a computer problem for a new client. Their wireless connection would start, but then suddenly disconnect. My initial thoughts were that there was some interference from a new cordless phone (cell phones really don't bother WiFi), microwave or some other piece of equipment that had been recently installed. Once I got a look at the computer, though, I recognized a old, familiar enemy -- software provide by the customer ISP (Internet Service Provider).

In this particular case, the software was Earthlink's TotalAccess package, but AT&T/SBC also have their own collection of software that they try to force feed their clients. This software is ostensibly designed to make the Internet easier to use, but while it may help some people jumpstart their experience, I wonder at what cost? I have a number of issues with this software and I will do everything I can to avoid it, for both myself and my clients.

What problems can this software cause? Let me count the ways.

• Support difficulties

For support people such as myself, ISP software makes our work much more difficult. It replaces standard tools that control the wireless connection and provide email and web browsing. This makes it nearly impossible to provide telephone support to a client, as there is no way I can duplicate, on my computer, what they are seeing on theirs. I cannot, and would not want to install all the different variants of ISP software on my computer. This software breaks down the ability to communicate with the client and what might have been repaired in a few minutes on the phone, now requires an on-site visit.

If the client is using the standard tools, which on Windows includes Outlook Express, Outlook, Internet Explorer...even Firefox, as I instruct them in the steps to take to remedy the problem, I can follow the same steps at my computer.

• ISP Software doesn't play well with others

Often, ISP software can conflict with built-in functions, tools and other software on your computer. In the case of today's client, TotalAccess was trying to manage the wireless connection, even though the standard Windows tool was working as it should. The different software would engage in a digital wrestling match until the wireless connection was disconnected. Luckily, I was able to turn off the WiFi management feature in TotalAccess and convince it to leave the connection alone.

Another related hassle is that this software requires that the use step through a login process at the beginning of each session. In a day when computer manufacturers are doing everything they can to make Internet access transparent, Earthlink is still trying to live in the Old World of dial-up communications.

• ISP software often lags behind the standard built-in tools

The software provided by your ISP falls behind in functionality, unable to keep up with advances in the surrounding system. This often leads to computers where I encounter ancient (at least in computer terms) versions of the software since no facility was ever made to update it.

• Data stored in non-standard areas and formats

This is probably the most disturbing problem of all. As you hear me preach again and again, backups are the most important process you can perform to keep you data safe. Unfortunately, ISP software can often store data in non-standard locations and purposefully conceal its location. ISP software can also store data, such as email, in non-standard formats, that defy export and import into a different application. In some cases, this could mean that your years of email archives, stored in one of these programs, might suddenly be rendered unreadable.

For me, most ISP software is more of an exercise in branding than any attempt to enhance user's productivity. Your ISP wants to insure that you see its logo and name as often as possible, throughout the day. Any productivity enhancements that might result are secondary to this.

If you can avoid installing the software that comes with your new DSL or cable modem, I highly recommend it. If you must install software to setup your account, only install the barest minimum required. Then, after the connection is working, you might be able to remove even this. As a general rule, if you don't know what the software is or does, error on the side of caution and don't install it at all.

--
HUH!!! Sekurecom


sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
None of which applies to Verizon's software, except maybe the useless Playlinc, but I've yet to see that even do anything but sit there.

Verizon software on the CD:
Verizon Help and Support, a useless little tool that comes on the screen and says "Connection problem detected" whenever IE shows "Page cannot be displayed."
Verizon Toolbar
Verizon QuickSupport used to be a download, but may be included on newer versions of the CD. It attempts to diagnose problems, purports to be able to repair others such as incorrect email settings in Outlook Express, and gathers information and provides a code that a customer can give to a TSA that'll pull up various system info.
A few Verizon shortcut icons are placed on the desktop.

Aside from that, just the optional MSN premium package is on the CD.
--
Think outside the fox...Seamonkey