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ohnoes112

join:2006-08-21
UK

Lavasoft's best business practices

»www.wilderssecurity.com/showthre···st941509

quote:
I picked this up from the largest Swedish IT News site and translated it.

»www.idg.se/2.1085/1.94960
»it24.idg.se/2.2275/1.94960

Lavasoft hunted by the swedish tax agency.

The company behind the anti-malware company Ad-Aware is hunted by
the creditor despite large profit. The owners of Lavasoft have bought
tv's, training exercise equipment and have used the company's chauffeur
to on private journey's. On top of that the company hasn't reported
any book accounts since 2004.

The it-company placed in Gothenburg (Sweden) Lavasoft has become
very succesful internationally because of their anti-malware Ad-Aware.
The sales has generated good sales but the owners gets a reprimand
from the swedish tax agency. (As written by the newspaper Gothenburg Post)

According to the newspaper is hunted by creditors and has a dispute
with the swedish tax agency about unpaid debts.

Last year nine applications of injuctions to pay from different suppliers
was handed in to The Swedish Enforcement Administration and Legislation.
Lavasoft sales was 114 Million SEK (Swedish kronor) (About 12,5 Million Euro)
of the year 2004 and profit was 64,5 Million SEK (About 7 Million Euro).
Since then the company hasn't reported any book accounts.

Swedish tax agency claim though that the development of the profit has
continued and that the two owners together declared 8,8 Million SEK
(About 966 Thousand Euro) from private income last year.

Swedish tax agency has decided they both privately assess a tax income
of millions SEK in financial benefits that has'nt been brought up in their
declaration. Also the company has employment tax, VAT, added taxes
and interest close to 1 million SEK (About 109 Thousand Euro).

Swedish tax agency doesn't like the fact that Lavasoft has taken up a cost
of 1,1 Million SEK for a company to protect the owners weekend cottage
24/7. The owners claim the protection is motivated due to important
documents and secret sourcecode was in the house.

Swedish tax agency feel that the company activity is someplace else.
Therefore the cost of the security company shouldn't be considered
as a private financial benefit.

Not only that the Swedish tax agency feels that owners have mixed up
their private economy with Lavasoft. Amongst other things the owners
have continuously used the companys creditcard to buy things for
private use like televisions and exercise equipment.

One of the owners have also used the company's chauffeur in a rental car
transported to and from the house.
Swedish tax agency also report disorder in Lavasofts bookkeeping with
payments to different american accounts among other things.
The payment has been done without invoices or written agreement.

IT24 has been trying to reach the owner for a comment but with no result.
---

It was a long and hard text to translate for me hope I got most things
right so u can hopefully understand what I have written.

One PR disaster after another

Hutch
My Throne is the Dunny
Premium
join:2000-10-14
Out House
·Internode

Re: Lavasoft's best business practices

Well if they don't pay Taxes or Creditors. When they should be doing so, They deserve what they get dished out to them.

Just because they make and produce software to the community, some for free and some not for free. This doesn't exempt them from keeping books, financial statements in order. If they are a Registered Company.
--
Who Gives A.......Don't Ask Me.......Cos I Don't Give A ****

AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA

said by ohnoes112 See Profile :

One PR disaster after another
Ouch. You got that right.
While I've become no big fan of their software, I hope this is more hype than substance.
There is often much gray area in the dealings between companies and tax collectors, and a little fudging here & there is hardly unusual.
Still, like you say, just another log on the fire that always seems to be smoldering around them nowadays.

onDvine
Premium
join:2005-01-29
So. CA, USA
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL

I still use Ad-Aware's free scanner regularly, but had an experience back in '03 that cleared up any delusions I might otherwise have had about Lavasoft's ethics.

Someone helping me in their forum sent me a PM suggesting I join another forum where this same person would be better able to help me further. After I did that, I learned that this person would've been expected/required to try to sell me the paid version of Ad-Aware if we'd continued our communications there, even though it was the person's very well-educated opinion (heck, their name was one of those listed in the application's credits on my screen) it wouldn't do any good.

Conclusion: the company was greedy 4 years ago and is greedier now.
--
Doubt is the beginning, not the end, of wisdom. ▪George Iles

salzan
Experienced Optimist
Premium
join:2004-01-08
WA State
Let's see, an anti-spyware company with questionable ethics needs a bunch of money in a hurry....
FarmerSwede

join:2007-02-10
Sweden

I am interested in IT news so I watch this forum often but do not post. I feel it is good in this case.

I live in Sweden and saw this original story in the local newspaper. Interested in it myself to see if I could write a story I checked some sources because in Sweden much of this is public information because we are socialist society.

You should be carefull with this because it is not really accurate information but in my opinion seems to be very 'blown up' to make a good story.

What I did confirm was that the company does owe a tax for a standard audit adjustment but it is not due yet until March.And the amount did not seem high or unusual against the company turnover finances. I confirmed too that the office that receives tax statements has their tax papers for 2004, 2005, and 2006. I aldo confirmed that the company is appealing some decisions by the tax office, but again I do not think this is unusual for a business to do.

So I want to share that infomration with you from a Sweden view.

Thank you.

hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12

Re: Lavasoft's best business practices

Hmmm...

cork1958
Cork

join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
·Verizon Online DSL
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1 edit
said by FarmerSwede See Profile :

I am interested in IT news so I watch this forum often but do not post. I feel it is good in this case.

I live in Sweden and saw this original story in the local newspaper. Interested in it myself to see if I could write a story I checked some sources because in Sweden much of this is public information because we are socialist society.

You should be carefull with this because it is not really accurate information but in my opinion seems to be very 'blown up' to make a good story.

What I did confirm was that the company does owe a tax for a standard audit adjustment but it is not due yet until March.And the amount did not seem high or unusual against the company turnover finances. I confirmed too that the office that receives tax statements has their tax papers for 2004, 2005, and 2006. I aldo confirmed that the company is appealing some decisions by the tax office, but again I do not think this is unusual for a business to do.

So I want to share that infomration with you from a Sweden view.

Thank you.
This is probably more along the lines of how things really are. Hope your story is more the truth, although Ad-Aware has been on shaky ground before.

Thanks for the effort on getting the story right.
--
Yep, we're back to Windows and Opera!!
ohnoes112

join:2006-08-21
UK

Hmmm(x2)Thankyou for your interpretation but it still raises questions

May i ask which parts you consider to be factually incorrect,the translation or the original news article by a prominent Swedish IT news site ?

BTW we know you Swede's are laid back folks but most countries have laws which would open a source to legal action if it published falsehoods that were detrimental to the claiment etc

Corrine
Premium
join:2004-08-27

said by FarmerSwede See Profile :

. . . Interested in it myself to see if I could write a story I checked some sources because in Sweden much of this is public information because we are socialist society.

You should be carefull with this because it is not really accurate information but in my opinion seems to be very 'blown up' to make a good story.

. . .
If you were suddenly interested enough in Lavasoft to consider writing a story, I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the aspects beyond the tax issue. After all, as I learned at FL, it appears that even the Swedish Tax Authorities are trying to avoid Swedish taxes. See »www.forbes.com/finance/feeds/afx···206.html

However, from what I have figured out from the online translations of the comments posted at »www.idg.se/2.1085/1.94960?articl···postings (realizing of course that the accuracy is not the best) is that the tax issue appears to be only one part of the problem at Lavasoft.

What about the claims for unpaid salaries?

What about the comments about ethics?

Now you could say that those are statements made by disgruntled former employees. However, I would be more inclined to say "history repeats". See, for example, the comment posted at Assarbad's blog writeup Some Knew It Others Found Out Recently. It appears from that at least one someone knew what it was like at Lavasoft.

BTW, FarmerSwede, also included in the articles and not excused by the tax explanation are the personal items (i.e., TV and exercise equipment) purchased with company funds. Of even more concern by both the Swedish and German Governments, I would suppose, would be the house in Germany, also purchased with company funds, yet family are living there. Don't forget the "continuous payments to different American bank accounts, without invoices or written agreements".

So, even if Lavasoft meets the dates for paying the overdue taxes, there certainly seems to have been a question of unethical business practices, to say the least.

@ohnoes112 -- Thanks for posting the translation here. I knew BBR was the place to look for more information on this topic and acknowledged that in my blog post:
As most people know, when there is a problem in the security world, the place to check first is BroadBand Reports Security Forum (commonly referred to as BBR). I was not disappointed. A thread at BBR led me to this post by someone using the nickname "Diablo2". It appears that the translation by Diablo2 is very similar to what I obtained from Systran.
--
Microsoft MVP, Windows - Security; Admin Council; Charter Member
ASAP; Take a walk though the Security Garden, Where Everything is Coming up Roses"

81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
not surpised, seeing their past practices i will not be surprised if they get shut down soon, for the record i no longer use adaware

Hutch
My Throne is the Dunny
Premium
join:2000-10-14
Out House
·Internode

Re: Lavasoft's best business practices

said by 81399672 See Profile :

i will not be surprised if they get shut down soon, for the record i no longer use adaware
No Adware here either. I won't be surprised if they get shut down as well.
--
Who Gives A.......Don't Ask Me.......Cos I Don't Give A ****
bluezanetti
Premium
join:2003-10-04

Re: Lavasoft's best business practices

said by Hutch See Profile :

said by 81399672 See Profile :

i will not be surprised if they get shut down soon, for the record i no longer use adaware
No Adware here either. I won't be surprised if they get shut down as well.
And precisely what detailed business financial analysis allow you to derive this cogent analysis?

Revenues mentioned above (~ 12.5 MM Euro with a healthy profit margin) are likely much better than many companies you view as sound.

If it's from the government perspective.., yea, let's shut them down and drop that revenue stream to negative levels when you factor in the workforce social costs. That makes sense...

Have any of you ever been a part of a large business? Ever heard of the Revenue and Tax Group? These are people you hire to basically do what is described above - pay the appropriate taxes and no more. If you think juggling your own tax responsibilities are comnplicated, maybe you should try the corporate side for a while.

Sheesh...

Blue

Psicop
More human than human
Premium
join:2005-12-21
I guess Lavasoft lawyers are hopeless. Opps...

hayc59
VoodooChild
Premium
join:2001-02-26
David R.I.P.
Very Interesting!!!

Corrine
Premium
join:2004-08-27
Lavasoft's Rebuttal: »www.lavasoft.com/company/press/a···0212.php

81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA

Re: Lavasoft's best business practices

said by Corrine See Profile :

Lavasoft's Rebuttal: »www.lavasoft.com/company/press/a···0212.php
That took them long enough, will see what the court says to the appeals that they say should have rulling soon.
ohnoes112

join:2006-08-21
UK

said by Corrine See Profile :

Lavasoft's Rebuttal: »www.lavasoft.com/company/press/a···0212.php
LOL and i thought we had seen that earliar in the topic or at least unofficial rebuttal

Since they are so familliar with the legal system,courts and haggling over money at the moment.
It make's me wonder why they do not initiate legal procedings against the source of theses alledged falsehoods for compenstation or to get the alledged falsehoods removed but then again

jarib7
End User

join:2003-04-06
Lake Cowichan, BC

Some of the claims seem silly. Why else would you hire some one and pay about $125 000 to guard a cottage? It was their temp office. Or else they had real nice furniture and tv's. $6000 or $7000 for tv's or monitors, big deal. Paid someone for their time as a driver, another so what

must_enter_name




from:
Corrine See Profile

Mind you, I see a difference between "driver" and "logistics manager" ...

But again and again the claims/allegations about the treatment of employees are disregarded. Lavasoft obviously does not even consider them worth a reply. Would be nice if we would hear the opinion of some current employee talking private about how s/he feels being treated. However, that will cause a lot of trouble for this employee if the allegations are verified by her/his testimonial - only if falsified there may be no trouble at all. But usally the treatment would differ from employee to employee anyway, right? So even a comment from one current employee needs to be taken with a lot of scepticism then! I doubt, though, that this will ever happen. Also there have been so many different sources for the allegations about the treatment of employees, that it is kind of ignorant to disregard all of them as "from a disgruntled employee". If you loose a job by being kicked in a very awkward way you will be a disgruntled ex-employee - of course. If you leave a company on your own you might still be happy, or you may be not if you were already disgruntled during your employment. Which one applies to the different voices that were to be heard on the Swedish sites? And where are the happy ones?

Why didn't the ex-employees raise their voices earlier, you ask? Maybe some did but were ignored ... or they were afraid?

The PR-statement is just that: PR! And, wasn't there another article concerning Ad-Aware and PR ( »www.rootkit.com/newsread.php?newsid=471 ) last year? I wonder what all of you expected? Lavasoft admitting to it? Has anyone asked why Lavasoft does not sue GP for their article, yet (yes, I saw the previous reply meanwhile )? ... at least make them to put up a correction? If there is no foundation for the article then why not just sue GP? Why would an investigative journalist make a beginner's mistake in the first place and then even add on to it with a second article? Anyone any ideas?

So a branch in Germany is planned? There are some interesting things to think about then! Why was the branch in Finland closed down just to open other branches in other countries? Anyone read the Wikipedia entries in the Swedish and the Finnish Wikipedia? Maybe internal reasons, though, so no idea. However, if a branch is planned you will of course get the office a long time in advance to leave it unstaffed. Or maybe the already employed workers in Germany want to speak up now? Questions the investigative journalist at GP should definitely ask.

Another thing, although I may be called picky on that one. Debts are debts even though they are not yet due for payment. The fact that they are not yet due just tells us that Lavasoft can pay these debts before/at the deadline and will have no further problems concerning them. Yet these are debts, i.e. obligations. So the first objection in the press release is kind of pointless already. But again, what did you expect?

said by ohnoes112 :
LOL and i thought we had seen that earliar in the topic or at least unofficial rebuttal
Phew, I thought I was the only one with that impression

Last but not least a quote from Lavasoft's comments:
Lavasoft does not own a holiday cottage outside Falköping. However, before and during the company move to Gothenburg in 2002 it served as office premises which motivated the services from the security company to protect business-critical documents.
... now why are all the smart people here not jumping on them and questioning the given years? Wasn't the journalist mentioning the years since 2004? Now, why can Lavasoft reply that these were just temporary offices way before 2004 which could have been abandoned after 2003 at least (which then would be, according to Lavasoft's statement, at least one year after they moved to Gothenburg), and sneak out?! Can someone in Sweden ("Falköping") please walk by at this house and see how office-like it looks?! (given anyone knows)




... quite some unanswered questions. Keep asking them!

Magnum PI



After doing a bit of research I would like to make some comments on Lavasoft's response to the local newspaper article...

quote from letter:

Claim/allegation: Lavasoft has a large tax debt.
This is not correct. The due date of tax debt that the article refers to has not passed. Therefore no tax debt exists as of today. The majority is owed during the first and/or second quarter and will be paid according to deadlines. The sum to be paid equals three percent of the turnover that year.


This is easily checked, in Sweden this is public information.
The tax dept to be paid is 3 128 240 SEK and refers to taxes not paid for months April and May 2006, question is why only these two months weren't paid??

quote from letter:

Claim/allegation: Lavasoft has a hard time keeping creditors away and has outstanding debts to its suppliers.
This is not correct. All claims made during 2006 have been disputed by Lavasoft and appealed against and six of these have been settled. Currently, the three remaining claims are being disputed in court and we expect a verdict in the near future.


According to the same source as above Lavasoft has one unpaid dept apart from the two mentioned in the previous quote. This is a dept for 320 470 SEK to a company called Olsson Ekonomikonsulter AB and is currently in court.
10 applications for depts not being paid has been filed on the company... I'd say that is a bit more that usual...

quote from letter:

Claim/allegation: The annual accounts for Lavasoft have not been filed since 2004.
This is not correct. The accounts for 2005 were filed last year and, consequently, before this article was published. The documents for fiscal year 2006 are not due until June/July.


According to "Bolagsverket" in Sweden the accounts for 2005 were filed 2007-01-29... Not really last year, eh?

quote from letter:

Claim/allegation: The owners' of Lavasoft have mixed the company's financial resources with their private economy.
This is not correct. All issues raised by the tax authorities are being disputed and are the subject of an upcoming legal process. Lavasoft can therefore only point to some of the false accusations:

* Lavasoft does not own a holiday cottage outside Falköping. However, before and during the company move to Gothenburg in 2002 it served as office premises which motivated the services from the security company to protect business-critical documents.

* The person that is referred to as the company's chauffeur is the logistics manager of Lavasoft.

* The items disputed (TV, etc.) add up to a total of 46,000 swedish krona ($6,568). The taxes on this cost will be paid rather than debating it in court.



Hmm... Didn't Lavasoft move to Gothenburg 2004...

The person reffered to as "Logistics Manager" is responsible for driving the CEO to and from work everyday in the company's Mercedes SL 55 AMG. Well... Shipping things (read persons) between two locations is indeed logistics...

Buying personal stuff on company creditcard... Nice try..
Tax authorities could've missed it...

The last two points in the anouncement from Lavasoft might be true or they might not be... Judging from the articles in the newspaper and the fact that some things in Lavasofts reply are right out lies i would like someone to really take a closer look at Lavasoft...

Well... That's about it...

Regards
//Magnum PI
Frisky
Premium
join:2006-06-15
Island

Re: Lavasoft's best business practices

said by Magnum PI :

The person reffered to as "Logistics Manager" is responsible for driving the CEO to and from work everyday in the company's Mercedes SL 55 AMG.
Damn! Why don't we have Logistic Managers in our company?
Problem would be where do we get a SL 55 AMG from?

Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC

Re: Lavasoft's best business practices

said by Frisky See Profile :

said by Magnum PI :

The person reffered to as "Logistics Manager" is responsible for driving the CEO to and from work everyday in the company's Mercedes SL 55 AMG.
Damn! Why don't we have Logistic Managers in our company?
Problem would be where do we get a SL 55 AMG from?
SL 55 AMG is not even needed when you are driving around one of these babies.

»www.av-experts.org/weblog/?p=45
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