Kriis
join:2007-01-31
Canada
| Who Is Right? Teksavvy or Bell?
Hi,
I gave my address to ROCKY (away for the weekend), and he said the following:
ROCKY: The address you've provide shows as 3Meg in our secondary system, so this normally represents a 3Meg to 4Meg speed.
I called Teksavvy to confirm and they suggested calling Bell since they have better tools to measure the lines.
I called bell sympatico drydsl and I asked them what DSL i qualify for and what my lines are able to handle. He said I qualify for hi-speed DSL and that my lines can handle 5 megs.
Is there a reason for the discrepancy?
NOTE: This question is not at all aimed to question the knowledge of the Teksavvy staff. You guys are very informative and professional. But as you can understand, I'd like to know what speeds I would get before I spend money to buy a modem and get dry dsl installed.
Thank you. |
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rbdwarf
join:2007-01-21
Montreal, QC
| said by Kriis  :Is there a reason for the discrepancy?
A couple of things to bear in mind:
1) There are only two levels of DSL that get sold, DSL basic (288K) and 5MB. Anything over basic is 5M. Bell will happily qualify you for "Up to 5M" and then gleefully throttle you back to 2M because of line conditions.
2) If Bell think that you're interested in paying them money they will gladly sign you up. It doesn't matter to them if you're promised 5M service but only get 2M - they still make their commission. Take a look around and you'll see lots of people who have been misled by Bell. That doesn't mean that they always lie, sometimes they mean it when they say "Hello" 
The only thing you can do is to do some homework beforehand. How far are you from the CO? Check a neighbour's line to see what they qualify for, or find a neighbour with DSL and see what they're getting. This still doesn't guarantee what you'll get but it should give you an idea.
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Rob |
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Kriis
join:2007-01-31
Canada
| That's not what I wanted to hear, but I appreciate the advice. I have tried to do as much homework as possible, but I live in an apartment building (I don't know anyone), and I would feel stupid knocking door to door asking if they have DSL internet and what types of speeds they're getting.
I was really excited to join Teksavvy. I even cancelled my Rogers Internet this morning. But now that I hear that my speeds will not be very good, I have no idea what to do.  |
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rbdwarf
join:2007-01-21
Montreal, QC
| Maybe ask the superintendent if they know anyone in the building who has it. Maybe the super has it! Find a family with teenagers Unless you're comfortable approaching strangers it ain't going to be easy.
Have you checked the DSL map here at dslreports? It's a long shot but maybe someone already pinned your building.
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Rob |
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TSI Steve
TSI Steve
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-12
Chatham, ON
| reply to Kriis
said by Kriis :Hi, I gave my address to ROCKY (away for the weekend), and he said the following: ROCKY: The address you've provide shows as 3Meg in our secondary system, so this normally represents a 3Meg to 4Meg speed. I called Teksavvy to confirm and they suggested calling Bell since they have better tools to measure the lines. I called bell sympatico drydsl and I asked them what DSL i qualify for and what my lines are able to handle. He said I qualify for hi-speed DSL and that my lines can handle 5 megs. Is there a reason for the discrepancy? NOTE: This question is not at all aimed to question the knowledge of the Teksavvy staff. You guys are very informative and professional. But as you can understand, I'd like to know what speeds I would get before I spend money to buy a modem and get dry dsl installed. Thank you. We use two different tools to attempt to qualify someones address.
The first tool is call the GAS PSQT. Which is a PPPoE (regular) DSL connection. If it qualifies for GAS at 5M we then take the address and try it in the HSA PSQT (Non-PPPoE). The conditions on which a line will qualify at all for Non-PPPoE are very high. The lines predetermined factors must be good or it doesn't qualify what-so-ever. If a line qualifies for GAS but not HSA we assume the client can handle between .5M (half a meg) up to 2.5M. If the line qualifies for 3M HSA then we assume it can at least 3M and up-to 4M. If the line qualifies completely for HSA (6M) then we know for sure the client can handle 5 or 6M.
The problem is the tools still aren't always right. There are a LOT of addresses that do not qualify for HSA off of the automated tools but still can handle 5 and 6M.
Steve |
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BellVictim
Premium
join:2006-04-17
| reply to Kriis
said by Kriis :ROCKY: The address you've provide shows as 3Meg in our secondary system, so this normally represents a 3Meg to 4Meg speed. I called Teksavvy to confirm and they suggested calling Bell since they have better tools to measure the lines. I called bell sympatico drydsl and I asked them what DSL i qualify for and what my lines are able to handle. He said I qualify for hi-speed DSL and that my lines can handle 5 megs. Is there a reason for the discrepancy? I'd speculate that the discrepancy arises from one or more of these factors:
- Rocky & TSI will tell you what they anticipate you can get based on their *real-world experiences*
- The Bell rep should have (and maybe even did) say "up to 5M", and not say 5M outright since it's always (AIUI) impossible to know with certainty until the service is in place
- The Bell rep was reading from a script and doesn't actually know much about DSL
- The Bell rep wants to get their commission and won't have to deal with you if they've given you incorrect info ... so they might be inclined to tell you what they think you want to hear
=-=-=-=-
*I* would interpret what you've heard as meaning there's an 80% chance you'll be able to get 3M, a 40% chance you'll get 4M, and a 10% chance you'll get the full 5M.
Not that I have much experience but given what I do have, that's how I'd interpret the info you've been given.
=-=-=-=-
You had asked: "Who Is Right? Teksavvy or Bell?". We'll never know until you get the service in (and even then some modems perform better than others) but I'd say that Teksavvy is trying to give you realistic expectations; Bell (rep) is trying to get commission.
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An side to TekSavvy about these sorts of numbers, maybe phrase them:
- instead of a plain 'probably 3 to 4Mb speeds' (which implies a chance of less than 3Mb, but people tend not to appreciate {or hear} the chance of negative possibility of 'probably');
- maybe say '80% chance of 3M, 40% chance of 4M' (or whatever %'ages are reasonable). Like those frustrating weather forecasters that refuse to tell us whether, *for certain*, it will rain tomorrow, they instead say 'POP=60%' etc. At least that way they (and you) are never outright wrong ... someone's luck was just with (or not with) them when it came to their DSL signal levels. |
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TSI Steve
TSI Steve
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-12
Chatham, ON
| said by BellVictim :An side to TekSavvy about these sorts of numbers, maybe phrase them: - instead of a plain 'probably 3 to 4Mb speeds' (which implies a chance of less than 3Mb, but people tend not to appreciate {or hear} the chance of negative possibility of 'probably'); - maybe say '80% chance of 3M, 40% chance of 4M' (or whatever %'ages are reasonable). Like those frustrating weather forecasters that refuse to tell us whether, *for certain*, it will rain tomorrow, they instead say 'POP=60%' etc. At least that way they (and you) are never outright wrong ... someone's luck was just with (or not with) them when it came to their DSL signal levels. Well due to the inaccuracy of qualifying someone's line .. I say the tools we use should just be fed more detail or more accurate information, that way we remove the guess work
Steve |
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Kriis
join:2007-01-31
Canada
| Thanks for the advice. I'll knock on some doors in the next couple days to see if anyone in my building has DSL. But I'm assuming that if they do and I ask them what speeds they are getting, they will say 'good'. Unless they know exactly or I ask them to run a speed test...they're answers will be useless.
Anyhoo....so if I'll get between 3megs and 4megs, do you think I should still switch?
Thanks |
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The Flash
You don't win friends with salad
Premium
join:2002-10-17
Toronto, ON | Of course, why would you want Rogers? lol  |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
 ·ELECTRONICBOX
| reply to Kriis
If you do not have a DSL modem plugged in and DSL service activated on your line, then there is no way to accurately predict what you can and cannot get.
Bell has the distance from your address to the CO. And based on that distance, it has statistics showing what sorts of speeds can be attained.
However if the wiring isn't quite as perfect as Bell thinks it is, or if the wiring in your home isn't perfect either, then the original predictions may have to be downgraded.
Once your have a DSL modem plugged in and DSL service activated, then both Bell and Teksavvy can extrat line stats from the Bell side, and you can extract line stats from your own modem. (they are usually fairly similar with minor differences).
If you don't have DSL servicve yet, the best anyone (Bell or Teksavvy) can give is is a "marketing" estimate of your speed. |
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Kriis
join:2007-01-31
Canada | reply to Kriis
Bell would know if someone has DSL in my building or not. Based on my address, could they or Teksavvy not see what speeds other customers in my building have? |
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TSI Rick
TSI Rick
Premium,VIP
join:2007-02-17
Merlin, ON
| said by Kriis :Bell would know if someone has DSL in my building or not. Based on my address, could they or Teksavvy not see what speeds other customers in my building have? Even as an employee I still don't know 100% if this is possible not to mention unethical, we don't make it a policy usually to go and check other users accounts out without their consent... |
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ladylay
join:2004-03-17
Montreal, QC | Maybe you can leave a note next to the mailboxes, asking for someone in the building who could tell you more about his/her DSL connection. You don't need to knock on doors that way.
good luck. |
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joshb
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Calgary, AB
clubs:
1 edit | reply to Kriis
N/M |
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