Piggie
I Actually use Windstream
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Orange Springs, FL | reply to hjriver
Re: Anyone else thinking WildBlue?
Now that is getting close to a good blues song!!! I may do an arrangement on the lighter side thread if it hasn't also been taken over but people comparing numbers. |
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hjriver
hjriver
join:2006-12-03
North, VA
| reply to Piggie
said by Piggie  :upgrading. Fanboys Banboys, what ya gonna do, when FAP reaches you? Gloom...Dispair...Agony...over me...Deep...Dark...Depression...Excessive...misery...If I didn't have Hughes FAP...I'd have no FAP at all...Gloom...Dispair...Agony...over me...
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HN7000S/Satmex6/1150/0.78/pro/Sig level: 60 |
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Arion
join:2006-07-09
Marquette, MI
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
1 edit | reply to v8rail
said by v8rail :
And you have a problem with us that we try to figure out how much bandwidth we lost and how we can get most of the little HN left us. V8
Find even once where I have criticized you for trying to find out a way for you or anyone else to maximize bandwidth or figure out how the new fap is working and I'll apologize to you. Even one instance!! I have stated a number of times even up to a comment I made last night that it's impossible to "abuse" the system. That's what the fap is for.
And neither have I criticized anyone else for experimenting to see what you can get out of the system. That's as valid of an experiment as the speed tests that I've been criticized for doing. I think you have me confused with someone else on those points.
What I object to is the anger that has been directed at times towards me and others for daring to say that we like the system and the performance increase that were seeing after the fap policy change. I'll never defend how Hughes has done it because they are providing a moving target that's impossible to hit. But, even as you and others have freedom of speech to say that the new system sucks and Hughes is taking advantage of you I also have freedom of speech to say that the result is beneficial to me in my experience with the system. There should be room for both viewpoints to be expressed without the unnecessary anger that has been displayed by some towards us who have been benefited by the change. 
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HN7000S IA-8 1270 / 8-PSK 3/4 (14) / Router:67.142.140.95 /.74 1 watt / Pro / Pentium 3.2ghz, 1gb ram / WinXP Pro/ Firefox 2.0.0.3 |
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v8rail
join:2003-10-13
Ash Fork, AZ
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to Arion
said by Arion : If you've been lurking on the forum for awhile you would of noticed that most of the "technical" help offered to people here before was in troubleshooting their systems as to why things were running so slowly. People where wondering if there was something wrong with there systems. And many of us offered our help in troubleshooting. Perhaps there is a reason why in the last month we have not had to help people as much with troubleshooting unexplainable system slowdowns....hmmmmm. And you have a problem with us that we try to figure out how much bandwidth we lost and how we can get most of the little HN left us. So there is no difference, just that for you speed is important, for many of us the bandwidth.
And again that there are slowdowns is in the fatprint and in the HN advertisement. That they cut down bandwidth is only in the fineprint and they still advertise the old bandwidth numbers 
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DW7000 release 5.4.0.33, 117W:1230, pro, router 66.82.158.77, rate code 256k 2/3 (TC), signal usually 80 |
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DickDastardl
join:2005-10-10
Port Republic, VA | reply to corvettez06u
YEA! And me too, what v8rail said.  Hear! Hear!  |
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Arion
join:2006-07-09
Marquette, MI
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to Fed Up2
quote:
At least we now know who you are! The number of different member names Hughes is using is amazing, and the dates they joined indicate Hughes has been sneakily trying to sway opinion here for years.
Wow,,,Hughes must be all powerful and I guess I must be a Hughes plant!! I must be on their payroll or something. LOL Maybe the mods should look into this. I've heard of conspiracies before but that's ridiculous. Few users of Hughes, WB or the other providers even post on such forums and I doubt that they care enough about the end users that they are willing to devote resources to infiltrate the forums. Wow...I thought I heard it all. If I was on the payroll then why am I paying $69 a month for my service. Maybe I ought to call them and ask for free service.
Seriously though, it's obvious that they care little for the end user. It's a numbers game of trying to balance an acceptable level of service on one hand and trying to keep as many customers as possible on the other hand and continue to grow.
This fap flap will probably die down after awhile and hopefully things will settle down. If you've been lurking on the forum for awhile you would of noticed that most of the "technical" help offered to people here before was in troubleshooting their systems as to why things were running so slowly. People where wondering if there was something wrong with there systems. And many of us offered our help in troubleshooting. Perhaps there is a reason why in the last month we have not had to help people as much with troubleshooting unexplainable system slowdowns....hmmmmm. 
I do however fully agree that these forums cause people to consider whether or not it's worth the hassle to try satellite service. It's not just the hughes forums either. Go to any of the WB forums or the one way forums and a potential user is left with mainly complaints and dashed expectations.
It's human nature to primarily complain and grouse when things are not going as expected and these forums are a lightning rod for such discussions. People rarely go to them and post that things are going well and that they are happy and satisfied with there systems.
I think that the "average" user of 150mb a day or so is pretty content with their system regardless if it's got a hughes sticker or a WB sticker on it. I would be perfectly content with recommending WB or having a WB system if it met or exceeded the performance I get with my system.
Of course sat internet is more expensive than it's terrestrial cousins and the performance is less due to latency and bandwidth limitations so I would certainly advise anyone reading these forums trying to explore if it's right for them to carefully look at all available options and if wireless or DSL is an option in your neighborhood you would probably not be smart to go with Hughes, WB or the offshoots.
But for those of us who have no other options, the systems work and work well within their limitations. If someone does their homework before getting the systems, does the research by visiting the forums and doing some reading of the manuals and is around when the system is installed and knows what to look for for making sure you get a good install I would tell them that these systems work and work well.
It's yet to be seen how much of a "mistake" Hughes has made with this new policy. The WB people were ganging up on their provider last fall when the packet scheduler modules were changed out which resulted in the latency almost doubling and WB had to put up with a lot of bad press over it. People vote with there feet and if there is a wholesale exodus from the Hughes subscriber rolls over the next quarter then Hughes will have it's answer. I consider myself an "average and moderate" user of the service. My system works well, it performs above the design specifications and I'm happy with it even after the fap change. If that changes I certainly am willing to add my voice to the naysayers.
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HN7000S IA-8 1270 / 8-PSK 3/4 (14) / Router:67.142.140.95 /.74 1 watt / Pro / Pentium 3.2ghz, 1gb ram / WinXP Pro/ Firefox 2.0.0.3 |
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Siryak
join:2005-11-26
·WildBlue
| reply to dino195
said by dino195 :I hear you there Arion. I live where I can step out my back door and fish, lots of deer and wild game around and I love it. I was very happy with the service before they put the new FAP in place but I can't see being Fapped twice in a week for just browsing the web. The old FAP was reasonable and it really irks me that they would flip the script on us only 2 weeks after installation. If I had had that info before hand, I would have gone with Wild Blue. Not only were they deceitful about the FAP but they also hit our credit card for the full amount of the installation when the payments were supposed to be spread out over 15 months. They have lost all credibility with me. I just got back from fishing lol. 
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Wildblue Pro Pack / Beam 40 / Laredo NOC / Windows MCE SP2 |
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Fed Up2
@direcpc.com
| reply to Arion
This is a clean, professional forum that used to be dominated by technically experienced people willing to help other folks keep their systems running.
All of that changed around four weeks ago when Hughes stupidly and blindly changed the rules. It is now almost entirely dominated by annoyance and frustration from normal, non-criminal people who feel cheated and insulted, with Hughes trying to smooth things over under various disguises. At least we now know who you are! The number of different member names Hughes is using is amazing, and the dates they joined indicate Hughes has been sneakily trying to sway opinion here for years.
And at the same time refusing to discuss their self serving policies openly.
Someone observed around 100 years ago: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Very appropriate. With more new rural or under serviced customer areas than they can currently handle, Hughes is making the fateful mistake of treating small customers like dirt.
But small customers are a substantial and necessary portion of their income.
Little do they seem to understand that each one they insult, restrict, lie to, or refuse to openly communicate with, when suddenly faced with a car that tries to run over the driver, will no longer tell their neighbours, friends, relatives, business associates, churches, and a formidably broad spectrum associations and groups in nearby towns that Hughes has its problems but overall it works.
Instead they will advise everyone to stay away at all cost.
Just as the hornets nest on this forum is a powerful negative message to anyone who strays here, rural areas will become saturated with the same thing.
If they let that happen, Hughes' over abundant new customer base will look very different.
I've been there. With an engineering, not sales background, I have run a company with technical products and non technical users. I learned a lot.
The basic problem, beyond just plain greed and uncaring for our fellow humans, is that ALL of Hughes' top dogs are engineers. None of them understand PEOPLE, and it shows in their self serving, secretive actions. |
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Arion
join:2006-07-09
Marquette, MI
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to IzzyJG99
said by IzzyJG99 :Get this... Just got off the phone with a friend of mine in the United States Army. HughesNet and a number of other companies were contacted by the US Military. They're going to contract HughesNet and other Satellite ISP's to give support/coverage to in the field to soldiers. So we may see a massive slow down that's bogged down by all the new potential users. According to my friend..they're going to have several dishes per F.O.B. in Iraq and Aghanistan sometime in 2008. This shouldn't effect us Izzy. The satellites that we use are not even visible to those overseas in the middle east. Our satellites are below the horizon from their perspective. The only issue would be what noc are they going to be using?? But since Hughes has been active overseas for quite a few years they must have some noc's on the other side of the pond to handle the traffic over there.
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HN7000S IA-8 1270 / 8-PSK 3/4 (14) / Router:67.142.140.95 /.74 1 watt / Pro / Pentium 3.2ghz, 1gb ram / WinXP Pro/ Firefox 2.0.0.3 |
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Brad R
join:2007-05-06
Collingwood, ON
| reply to Piggie
said by Piggie :Some of the pages they go to force feed advertisements that are videos they can't even stop. I know this is off-topic, but...two words: Opera Browser. It has superb ad-blocking tools. I have most ads blocked now. |
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v8rail
join:2003-10-13
Ash Fork, AZ
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to Arion
Arion,
I agree with a lot you are saying. I love the place I live, no power company to pay, no water and sewer company, no landline, just a private dirt road ...
I had a good running DSL line before I moved and needed to sign up with HN. I still had no problem and got most the time the service I needed from HN.
But actually I have not much a problem with you, again I understand your standpoint and I also think when you are a little longer customer with HN you will understand why I don't believe that HN did the FAP change to give the customers a better speed. Like Piggie said, they never did it before and I'm sure they did it not now.
I have a problem with fanboy. In the topics where some of us try to figure out what hughes did, and he is just posting his BS that we did not read the fineprint and that we are bandwidth hogs. Most of us did read the fineprint and most did it better then him. Also most of us was just normal regular users. He tells us we are whiners, but in near every post he whines about prime time speed. I know he uses just the tactics of a troll and I should not feed the trolls ... but sometimes it happens
Then WB, most likely I would switch. I don't need the HN speed anyway, I throttle all downloads anyway, gives me more time to react when something does not look right. Also I decided in the beginning that the pro plan fits my bandwith need and I was for six years not in the 5% HN stopped "hogging" with the FAP. But hopefully I have broadband in four months, so it is just to big of a investment for this short time.
I posted before, the new FAP was FOR ME also partially positive.
- I pay $20 less a month, before april 18th HN did not let me switch.
- Got on a new router, have more prime time slow down, but it lets me listening to streaming radio. Before I could not listen and HN TS told me the problem was on my side ... yeah right
But all this makes it not correct what they did april 18th and I also disapprove that TS lies everytime they open their mouth (I know, they don't know it better ...it is HN fault).
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DW7000 release 5.4.0.33, 117W:1230, pro, router 66.82.158.77, rate code 256k 2/3 (TC), signal usually 80 |
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IzzyJG99
join:2007-04-28
Deland, FL
| reply to corvettez06u
Get this...
Just got off the phone with a friend of mine in the United States Army. HughesNet and a number of other companies were contacted by the US Military. They're going to contract HughesNet and other Satellite ISP's to give support/coverage to in the field to soldiers. So we may see a massive slow down that's bogged down by all the new potential users. According to my friend..they're going to have several dishes per F.O.B. in Iraq and Aghanistan sometime in 2008. |
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dino195
join:2003-08-30
| reply to Arion
I hear you there Arion. I live where I can step out my back door and fish, lots of deer and wild game around and I love it. I was very happy with the service before they put the new FAP in place but I can't see being Fapped twice in a week for just browsing the web. The old FAP was reasonable and it really irks me that they would flip the script on us only 2 weeks after installation. If I had had that info before hand, I would have gone with Wild Blue. Not only were they deceitful about the FAP but they also hit our credit card for the full amount of the installation when the payments were supposed to be spread out over 15 months. They have lost all credibility with me.
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HN7000S 93 West 1086 WRT54G XPpro/Debian Sarge
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Arion
join:2006-07-09
Marquette, MI
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to v8rail
What is going on since april 18th is just too much. Arion I hope for you that HN has really implemented a sophisticated system, but most likely you are throwing your $$$ out the window for nothing.
I'm Dutch though...You've probably heard about how copper wire was invented?? Two Dutchmen fighting over a penny. I sure don't feel like I'm being taken advantage of or throwing away my money.
I have never had true broadband. I have lived in the boonies for the last 15 years and have been stuck with 28.8 dial up, and that with noisy lines to boot. Perhaps if I had ever experienced a cable connection then I would have a better frame of reference.
While typing this I just DL the latest copy of apple quick time (20mb) in order to view the graphics package about the Hughes fap patent. I DL at 1mb speed. About 2 minutes and I had the file. That would of taken me at least an hour with my old dial up connection. I guess it's all in how you look at it. The performance I'm getting living out in the sticks seems like a real bargain to me even though it's costing me $69 a month. I couldn't really do what I do now on dial up...at least that's how I look at it.
BTW since the thread was about WB, if I had WB and was getting this sort of performance I would certainly be a fan of WB. I have no love for Hughes or their employees. It's just that the system works and fulfills my expectations and yes...if something comes along either cheaper or more performance for the same $ then I would be a fool to stay with Hughes. But that's the price I pay for living in the sticks. I saw a 300# bear the other day by me. I can't do that in the city.
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HN7000S IA-8 1270 / 8-PSK 3/4 (14) / Router:67.142.140.95 /.74 1 watt / Pro / Pentium 3.2ghz, 1gb ram / WinXP Pro/ Firefox 2.0.0.3 |
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Piggie
I Actually use Windstream
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Orange Springs, FL
·HughesNet Satellit..
 ·Windstream
| reply to v8rail
I was on G11, 1350 and more of the time on 1410, for 30 months of service. Evening slow downs were minimal. Slowing to 600kbps or so from peaks of 1.1mbps which held most of the time. It was obvious from my good fortune of being on G11 and listening to the SatMex people that SM bird was way way over sold. So were a few others. So why in 2.5 years was G11 never oversold? Was I just dumb lucky?
The other comment is fine, Hughes promised high speeds and a bucket and refill rate. Which now is apparently diametrically in opposition.
But the new rules affect everyone 24/7, where as the slow downs mainly affected people for a few hours a day. The slow downs were isolated to a few birds, which means they didn't manage those birds, as other people didn't have the problem. Some slow down but not modem speeds at prime time.
From the customer service chats I saw posted here, the one common thing now is not reset your modem, but why don't you upgrade.
It was not done for the light users, it was done to increase profits.
I find it interesting that Arion would by a 350 meg bucket for 100m a day habit. That is exactly what they wanted him to do, and obviously he has the extra money that it's a good game to play.
So they should say on their sign up page. If you expect to be considered an economical user and actually get these speeds advertised, please buy a bucket size 3 times your normal daily expected usage.
The other thing I can't get over was they said when I signed up they already had the top 5% under control with the FAP I was totally aware I had bought into. But now they say again, it's the top 5%.
When do they stop saying it's the top 5%? Probably never. Why?
Well think about this. It has been 6 or 7 years since their last change in FAP policy. The internet is with out a doubt a lot more bandwidth intensive (except those only reading text pages).
Hence, those 6 years ago that didn't really change their internet habits, now probably use 3 to 4 times more bandwidth than they did in the past. So more of the people, or at least the people up near the top of usage, that didn't both them before , are now HOGS, though basically they didn't change much in their habits. Sure they watch maybe more movies than they did. Some of the pages they go to force feed advertisements that are videos they can't even stop. But they spend about the same amount of time and visit about the same amount of sites as they did 6 years ago. It's the sites that have changed.
Now, since Hughes can't change that part, they punish their customers. This is why I say it's the top end of the moderate users that are being really affected. And now due to limited refills from non economical users (something 99% of them don't even know about cause they don't read this forum).
So really it was the heavy surfers that were giving Hughes the problem this time. Not so much the huge down loaders. Now the heavy web surfers are part of the NEW 5%, the Problem sector.
Ok, if you keep extrapolating this into the future, there will be an another reduction in FAP in another so many years. And so on and so on.
Another thing not to forget, since the fanboys tell the haters that instantly they saw a prime time speed increase, then indeed it was because so many hater hogs were FAPped.
But most of the heavy moderates had not yet hit their first FAP from 8th level of the underworld. A few did, but if my 3 neighbors are typical it took them a week or so to have that really heavy day that nailed them. So it was not the heavy moderate user that was were using the bandwidth, but indeed they are the target now, and told to just upgrade.
It's all bottom line, not to benefit anyone but Hughes, and reward those that have the money to spend to buy 3 times the actual band width they need. If the old FAP got rid of the 5% bad boy, then now they found yet 5% more, it would seem that it's more like they don't want 10% of the users so they can load the transponders higher.
Other's say they will not now load more people on, hog wash! They did in the past, so what would stop them now? A company that would take away 66% of your bandwidth over night with a 24 hour penalty should have no qualms or any scruples to load those transonders and gateway's again.
After all, they say, in plain English, they don't guarntee their advertised speeds.................
They never have said they want you buy 3 times as much. You look at a 200 M bucket and say cool. Then find out if you use more than 50 to 60 of that a day and you're not an economical user. You call to complain, they suggest upgrading. That sound just like bait and switch to me.
Fanboys Banboys, what ya gonna do, when FAP reaches you?
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| Speedstream 4200 Modem - 3m/386 plan | W98-W2KSP4-XPSP2 - All AMD | Buffalo WHR G54S with OpenWRT WR0.9 | 2 downstream switches feeding 5 total clients (no wireless)| |
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v8rail
join:2003-10-13
Ash Fork, AZ
·HughesNet Satellit..
1 edit | reply to Brad R
said by Brad R :said by Arion :I hope you are able to dump your service, get out of your contracts and find an alternative...but don't worry, something else will pop up to get you mad. Perhaps, but I doubt it. I was content with HN for 23 months, including an entire day when AMC9 was out of service, countless lesser outages, and many stupid blockages of their SMTP server. I lived with it quietly. And I've never once complained about slow speeds. But I did sign up for a certain amount of bandwidth, and now they want to cut me to 40% of that amount for the same price. And slap me with a 24-hour "time-out" if I accidentally go over. And adding insult to injury, try to convince me that this is a benefit to me. Maybe my new service will offer that much provocation. But I think probably not. Same here, six year direcway customer. As long as the service is not as bad as HN I don't see it happen. HN had never great customer care in this six years, I tolerated their abuse. What is going on since april 18th is just too much. Arion I hope for you that HN has really implemented a sophisticated system, but most likely you are throwing your $$$ out the window for nothing. I base that conclusion on the usage page, that is so simple to program it is just laughable that it is still not running error free.
BTW I like that:
"There's really no way you can take advantage of the service or the system. That's what the fap is for. When you go over that "point" whatever the magic number is that's when the brakes go on."
hopefully fanboy reads that, that was true before april 18th and is still true.
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DW7000 release 5.4.0.33, 117W:1230, pro, router 66.82.158.77, rate code 256k 2/3 (TC), signal usually 80 |
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dino195
join:2003-08-30
| reply to Arion
"There's really no way you can take advantage of the service or the system. That's what the FAP is for. When you go over that "point" whatever the magic number is that's when the brakes go on."
Fine, but that magic number is not arbitrary. I signed up for one magic number and ended up with another. That is breech of contract.
An 82% reduction in bandwidth is unacceptable. Bottom line. They have oversold their capabilities and existing customers are paying the price. If they want to reduce the new subscribers by 82% fine, as long as they say so up front. However, When I signed on it was for a different agreement plain and simple.
If an 82% reduction in agreed upon service is OK with you then more power to you. I'm just glad your not managing my finances.
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HN7000S 93 West 1086 WRT54G XPpro/Debian Sarge
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Brad R
join:2007-05-06
Collingwood, ON
| reply to Arion
said by Arion :I hope you are able to dump your service, get out of your contracts and find an alternative...but don't worry, something else will pop up to get you mad. Perhaps, but I doubt it. I was content with HN for 23 months, including an entire day when AMC9 was out of service, countless lesser outages, and many stupid blockages of their SMTP server. I lived with it quietly. And I've never once complained about slow speeds.
But I did sign up for a certain amount of bandwidth, and now they want to cut me to 40% of that amount for the same price. And slap me with a 24-hour "time-out" if I accidentally go over. And adding insult to injury, try to convince me that this is a benefit to me.
Maybe my new service will offer that much provocation. But I think probably not. |
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Arion
join:2006-07-09
Marquette, MI
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to corvettez06u
Us fanboys though aren't the ones grousing about the service lately. I mean lets be realistic. Everyone looks at the policy as to how it effects them and their level of service, right??
Those of us who like the way it is have been benefited since the change in policy...those who don't like it feel that they are being shortchanged in what they are paying for.
There's really no way you can take advantage of the service or the system. That's what the fap is for. When you go over that "point" whatever the magic number is that's when the brakes go on.
As far as speed test's happen to go why does it matter to anyone if we use part of our bucket to run speed tests as opposed to those of you that use yours to dl youtubes, files or whatever?? I go back to the same point time and time again but I think it's relevant. The #1 complaint before the new policy was the abysmally slow prime time speeds. For some it was as bad as dial up. Click on a graphics intensive website and go get a cup of coffee. Post after post of folks asking if there was something wrong with their system, ect.
Like it or not the evidence shows that the prime time speeds started to go way up for a lot of us at the same time the new policy was implemented. Is it too great of a stretch of logic to conclude that the new fap policy had eased up the congestion somewhat during prime time?? I think that's a reasonable assumption.
Your mileage may vary but I use the internet primarily for going to my favorite sites and doing various research activities. Because most of what I do is text based I don't run through a large amount of bandwidth normally. In addition after reading through the fap patent I upgraded to the pro plan to make sure that the system saw me as an economical user. The system rewards me by giving me a good download speed...even during prime useage hours most of the time.
I enjoyed the service before the change as I had good performance most of the time. Since the change has been even better. I don't find anyone approving of how Hughes implemented this, the quality of their technical or customer service support or for that matter about anything that has to do with "big business" of which Hughes definitely is. I just continue to find myself somewhat bemused by the ire us "fanboys" seem to earn from those of you on a continual rant fest. It really seems to bother some of you that their are those of us out here who like the service, the speeds and are not frothing at the mouth. Those of you "haters" (I guess I can say that if I don't mind being a fanboy) I hope you are able to dump your service, get out of your contracts and find an alternative...but don't worry, something else will pop up to get you mad.
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HN7000S IA-8 1270 / 8-PSK 3/4 (14) / Router:67.142.140.95 /.74 1 watt / Pro / Pentium 3.2ghz, 1gb ram / WinXP Pro/ Firefox 2.0.0.3 |
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v8rail
join:2003-10-13
Ash Fork, AZ
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to Piggie
six years ago when I signed up with hughes this was already there:
Actual speeds vary based on the amount of traffic on the Internet, content on a particular Website, or by the overall performance and configuration of your computer. Stated speeds and uninterrupted use of service are not guaranteed. Actual speeds will likely be lower than speed indicated during peak hours.
and they whine about speed  yeah right.....
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DW7000 release 5.4.0.33, 117W:1230, pro, router 66.82.158.77, rate code 256k 2/3 (TC), signal usually 80 |
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